DD is trying to hang out with a cool crowd where she is on the margins - how to steer her to others?

[Anonymous]

I would agree with those who say - pursue other activities.

You should not even bring up the friend group stuff on the subject. Discuss as (1) her interests and (2) her future when it comes to college. Start with what you and perhaps she herself are already involved in.

For us, we said the kids need to do at least one school activity, one sport or physical activity (school or otherwise) and one church activity. They could choose. They could change things too. Their choice. Mostly they played school sports (usually not too well). They all have sung in the church kid choirs because it was pretty fun and pretty easy. But, the point is to get her thinking about what she likes to do outside of in school stuff. Music, art, writing, acting, dance, soccer, whatever. The other activities gives them additional sets of friends and different stuff to do and think about. It also opens up activities now and later, in and outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know -- if it were me I'd leave it alone and let her figure it out herself. She probably already knows the score. I still remember a conversation that my mother had with me when I was a freshman in high school. I was a super nerd with only a few acquaintances I'd eat lunch with -- no real high school friends. My mother "helpfully" pointed out that I seemed to have no friends and what was I gonna do about it. Uh, yeah mom -- I already know I have no friends. Thanks for rubbing it in.

I'd leave it.

+1 I think it's fine to suggest activities that might help her meet new people, but remember that the only thing worse than wanting to be one of the cool kids and failing, is having your mom point out that you want to be one of the cool kids but you're failing.

[Anonymous]

OP - the lesson for you about your kid right now is that there are many things mom can't fix.

None of us can give you the magic words to say to make your daughter give up on this thing she wants.

What you can do is be willing to drive, fund, and permit her to do things with the nicer girls once she finally gives up on the ones who don't want her.

[Anonymous]

This what middle school is all about, just embrace it. My daughter definitely spent 6th and 7th grade as queen bee but then decided this year as an 8th grader the people she really likes are people who are kind to her. I loved seeing the maturity evolve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know -- if it were me I'd leave it alone and let her figure it out herself. She probably already knows the score. I still remember a conversation that my mother had with me when I was a freshman in high school. I was a super nerd with only a few acquaintances I'd eat lunch with -- no real high school friends. My mother "helpfully" pointed out that I seemed to have no friends and what was I gonna do about it. Uh, yeah mom -- I already know I have no friends. Thanks for rubbing it in.

I'd leave it.

+1 I think it's fine to suggest activities that might help her meet new people, but remember that the only thing worse than wanting to be one of the cool kids and failing, is having your mom point out that you want to be one of the cool kids but you're failing.

another pp here- I was also a super nerd in middle and high school. What helps *a lot* is a comforting home life without drama. I had a pretty bad home life and I remember thinking that I could manage better if I could come home to a warm, safe space where I could just hang out in my room or watch tv or eat good food. That sounds so basic, but just being a loving mom- listening without judgement or unsolicited advice will help (and probably does help) your DD more than you realize. I know with my own son that if I started a conversation about his lack of friends, he would feel humiliated- probably better to let your DD bring it up and then listen while saying as little as possible.
Everyone has suggested out of school activities/hobbies and I agree that it's a good way to get your DD to think about who *she* is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks - to clarify, my DD isn’t happy being on the periphery and is constantly disapointed in these girls and upset that they don’t invite her to things outside of school. She keeps hoping for a deeper level friendship with one or more of these girls and keeps getting the same result. DD ends up not valuing girls who so treat her well and want to hang out with her because she’s so focused on these other ones.

But wI get it - can’t over do anything but surely there is some way to help her realize a that a good friendship wouldn’t leave her feeling this way before her self esteem is really crushed.

You know what?

It is much healthier and safer for her to be on the edges with the "popular" and "cool" kids than it is for her to be part of her group.

What usually makes a group popular or cool in middle school is that they engage in a lot more riskier behaviors (sex experimentation, alcohol consumption, drug use, mean behavior and riskier online behavior) than a responsible parent is usually comfortable with.

Being on the fringes means she has a group to sit with at lunch or the game, but she won't be invited to the party or to Regina's House. That is a huge blessing.

Comfort her without pushing or pulling her in any one direction. Get her involved in activities with healthier kids. Give her time to mature so she can see that the kids who are peaking in middle or high school are probably not the group for her. Things shuffle around socially in 2nd semester of middle school. Maybe she will start to find a better crowd then.

[Anonymous]

Continue listening and empathizing. Don’t shove advice down her throat. If she asks your opinion, give it honestly.

Does she have outside activities? The best thing you can do for her is put her in a position to have multiple friend groups.

[Anonymous]

I would be direct about it once, but then back off & let her decide for herself/

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much for posting OP. And PP love the advice. My 7th grader is just now going through the same thing. We are keeping her busy with sport, club and family time. I am treasuring this time with her and know she will meet her people mid to late teens like I did. I am also keeping her off social media to some extent so there is no feeling left out. Girls can be not so nice tween years so I am happy she is on the outskirts and away from the drama.

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much for posting OP. And PP love the advice. My 7th grader is just now going through the same thing. We are keeping her busy with sport, club and family time. I am treasuring this time with her and know she will meet her people mid to late teens like I did. I am also keeping her off social media to some extent so there is no feeling left out. Girls can be not so nice tween years so I am happy she is on the outskirts and away from the drama.

[Anonymous]

OP, you know too much. You are too invested, and this may cause more trouble for your daughter than her learning life lessons, whatever life lessons she learns on her own, in her own time.

[Anonymous]

OP here - thanks to all - lots of thought-provoking input and anecdotes.

To clarify, I am not wishing that those girls would make her a core part of their group -on the contrary - that would come with its own set of worries...And I certainly did not plan to tell her she had no friends not what I intended at all!

What I wish I could say is that these girls aren't capable of being the type of friend that she is craving - just the wrong personality types, and she needs to pay attention to these other ones who she's currently ignoring.

That said, it sounds like that already is pushing it.

Exploring more activities sounds good, although this would end up being me requiring it - the college talk sounds like a good way to get at that notion, perhaps.

It was enlightening to see what one PP said about the the popular crowd offering status and that giving up on this group (in her mind) might translate into failure...I now see that's what I'm up against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, how old is she (and what grade is she in)--this makes a difference in the advice--12 y.o. tween is very different, brain-development-wise, than 16.

Second, 10:34 touches on "popularity" and there is this great book (for parents) called "Untangled" which helps a parent explain the difference between popularity and powerful girls. It's good to start using those words intentionally, as the distinction is blurred by common usage.

Third, I think one trick is when your kid is miserable and complaining or commenting to you, to just say, "wow, that just sounds really rough, and this isn't the first time that X and Y have pulled that crappy stunt. What do you think you should do?" (or "how do you think you should handle it?" or "what is your plan for dealing with it?" or "do you have a plan for dealing with it?")

I'm saying that because no doubt you've already offered your advice and she's not open to it, but she IS listening. If you sort of let her do the thinking there, she'll probably come up with something similar to your advice, but this way she has ownership and thought it out instead of leaving the thinking to you...she'll possibly end up saying something as if it's a brand new idea, as if she never heard you at all...and when that happens, I just bite my tongue and don't remind her that that was what I've been telling her all along.

I agree. Instead of telling her that these girls are not good friends and that they aren't the kind of people who will ever be good friends for her, ask questions about how she feels. Ask her to think of ways to deal with it. Be a sounding board for her to talk it though. Then, it's her idea, and she might feel more empowered to deal with it than if you tell her to do X and she does X. She has to learn this for herself, and the best you can do is listen and sympathize and facilitate that learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD keeps hanging out with a group of girls at school who are alpha types. She is almost always a fifth wheel, or at least she ends up feeling this way the majority of the time, based on how she describes it. There are other friend options that we have tried to encourage in various ways, but DD is laser focused on sticking with this crowd. While they accept her at school and some after school activities, it seems pretty clear to me and to my DH that she's never going to be considered part of the core group and they will not fulfill her friendship needs.

When I was a kid, I was able to pick up on these cues and knew instinctively to move on. I don't get why my DD doesn't. I've been tempted to lay it out for her in somewhat blunt terms, but am betting that it will only backfire. Before I do something stupid, I'd welcome advice from parents who have helped a daughter move on to better friends. MS is a tough time for me to do this since it seems like kids do a lot of their own social planning...

Any suggestions?

I wouldn’t tell her. It will break her heart. Encourage other friendships.

[Anonymous]

I am sure this is so frusterating to you, but you cannot just tell her and expect it to be fixed.

I agree with the poster that says keep the conversation open, empathize with her, and deal with it in terms of questions. Avoid directly tell8ng her what to do. That could push her in the wrong direction.

My son has a friend who can be great and can be a jerk. So far he thinks the friendship overall is on balance worth it. This is his decision to make. But I from time to time ask him how he feels when larlo is mean to him.