Do expect your kids to obey you?

[Anonymous]

Depends on their age of course. Also how reasonable in general you are.

[Anonymous]

My youngest is 17. My oldest is 27. Until they leave for college, yes. I absolutely expect them to obey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not blindly, no. But I expect them to comply when I make reasonable requests and to discuss it calmly and respectfully if they disagree.

^^^mine are older. When they were toddlers, yes I expected them to follow safety commands. Don’t touch that, don’t go in the street, etc.

How old were they when you decided it was ok for you to debate everything you told them, that they didn't agree with?

Not sure. They’ve always been advanced communicators. They are not rude and somehow they know the difference between a non negotiable (like a safety item) and weather or not I feel a certain TV show us age appropriate. I’m open to respectful discussion on some things. And if I’m not, I’ll say “this isn’t negotiable.”

What I'm getting at is this:
When your kid wants something, and you say "no", is it *really* a good idea to let your kid debate you?

People keep asking why so many boys/men think they can assault a girl/woman when she said "no". If our boys have been trained to ignore "no", what exactly should we expect?

If you want to debate things with your kid, please do NOT say "no", and then back off and open a debate.

Instead say, let's talk about it, or let me think about, or I'll discuss it with your father/mother.

If you want "No Means No, start acting like it and put your money where your mouth is. Mean what you say, or don't say it.

I can see how boys think "no means yes", if that's how they're been raised. Most boys know that if they nag/pound their parents long enough, they'll often get what they want. Allowing a debate after you've already said "no", is very dangerous territory.

Well, mine are girls to be precise. And yes I absolutely want them to feel they can question authority when it doesn’t feel right. Blind obedience got us the holocaust.

[Anonymous]

I actually encourage my kids to push back against rules they disagree with. Ever since they were babies. If I can’t make a good enough case for a rule or if I am inconsistent about it, they get to push back. You want them to grow up and be totalitarian followers? Also, in the rapist example above, where does that leave the girl/victim that was taught to obey?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I expect them too disobey me in age-typical ways; however, I teach them how to make good choices and supervise or set limits when things could go south.

+1

[Anonymous]

Nope. I expect them to question a little/debate as they get older. Otherwise, I don’t think I’d be successfully launching them into the real world.

Also, strict obedience results in a distance. I am not their friend, but I want them to feel ok enough to talk to me about things they know I 100% disagree with. Sex in HS, vaping, drugs, drinking and driving, etc...

I want them to know they can talk to me without judgment. Harsh punishments. If not, they’ll hide all the bad stuff pretty well if they’re even remotely intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it mean if you expect your kids to obey you?

WE have rules for safety and YES, they obey them. You’re an asshole parent if you don’t have rules and the expectation that they be followed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it mean if you expect your kids to obey you?

WE have rules for safety and YES, they obey them. You’re an asshole parent if you don’t have rules and the expectation that they be followed

Yes, rules of course. Expecting teens to follow them, naive. Here are just a smattering of things I experienced as a straight A student under my parents nose:

1. Friend raped at a model UN conference when she was 15. We thought it was a good idea to attend the bachelor party a few doors down from our hotel room.
2. Abortion at 17.
3. Marijuana, coke, ecstasy and other drugs all over the place.
4. Getting in cars with teens drunk behind the wheel.

Point is, yes parents needs rules, but parents needs to forge open lines of communication to avoid the above, or worse. I was very good at acting like the perfect girl. I was terrified of consequences in breaking the rules. However, I openly rebelled against the rules. Don’t be so strict you don’t know what your kids are really doing because you’ve alienatinted them.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, need and alienated...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not blindly, no. But I expect them to comply when I make reasonable requests and to discuss it calmly and respectfully if they disagree.

^^^mine are older. When they were toddlers, yes I expected them to follow safety commands. Don’t touch that, don’t go in the street, etc.

How old were they when you decided it was ok for you to debate everything you told them, that they didn't agree with?

Not sure. They’ve always been advanced communicators. They are not rude and somehow they know the difference between a non negotiable (like a safety item) and weather or not I feel a certain TV show us age appropriate. I’m open to respectful discussion on some things. And if I’m not, I’ll say “this isn’t negotiable.”

What I'm getting at is this:
When your kid wants something, and you say "no", is it *really* a good idea to let your kid debate you?

People keep asking why so many boys/men think they can assault a girl/woman when she said "no". If our boys have been trained to ignore "no", what exactly should we expect?

If you want to debate things with your kid, please do NOT say "no", and then back off and open a debate.

Instead say, let's talk about it, or let me think about, or I'll discuss it with your father/mother.

If you want "No Means No, start acting like it and put your money where your mouth is. Mean what you say, or don't say it.

I can see how boys think "no means yes", if that's how they're been raised. Most boys know that if they nag/pound their parents long enough, they'll often get what they want. Allowing a debate after you've already said "no", is very dangerous territory.

Well, mine are girls to be precise. And yes I absolutely want them to feel they can question authority when it doesn’t feel right. Blind obedience got us the holocaust.

Evil people got us the Holocaust. As a child, my parents took me to see the German concentration camps. Shameful that it took so long for the American government to acknowledge what was going on, in spite of overwhelming evidence. But I digress.

This thread is about underaged children obeying their parents.

[Anonymous]

On the occasions when I issue an actual order, yes. Those occasions are pretty rare and mostly safety related.

I try to be very careful about my wording, though. I don’t say, “Don’t do X!” If I am okay with them negotiating X down to Y.” I would instead say, “I would prefer X” or “We need X or we’ll have ABC problem” or “You promised to do X” or some other phrasing that indicates that it is a guideline or advice or reminder not an actual order. We have some basic household rules that are constant (“Respect yourself, Respect others, Respect our home”). We also have day-to-day policies and procedures which we discuss and renegotiate regularly, both informally (“I traded chores with Larlo, okay mom?”) and formally at our weekly family meeting.

[Anonymous]

I think some parents think it's cute when their
little kids start demanding explanations and debates.

In most families, "no" doesn't really mean "no".
Most parents are too damn tired, and your kids know it.

[Anonymous]

It’s not always that simple. My 10 yo can calmly ask if we can discuss something if he truly does not agree and sometimes we can. Not everything is a hard line rule. It’s different than when the kids were little and the rules were don’t run into the road, use respectful language, wash your hands, pick up your toys, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends what you mean by expect.

I don’t expect my kids to never protest my rules. They are kids, it’s what they do.

I don’t expect my kids to follow rules that I don’t enforce 100% of the time. If I sometimes allow it and sometimes don’t, I can’t be surprised if they are confused and don’t follow.

I expect that children’s brains aren’t fully formed and they don’t have the experience an adult has, so they often aren’t capable of making good choices. It’s my job to make those choices for now and to teach them how to make those choices in the future.

I do expect that *I* will make appropriate rules with good reasoning behind them, and that I will enforce them at all times. I also expect of myself that if my child isn’t obeying, it is up to me to figure out why and what I can do to fix the problem.

A lot of parents probably think I’m overly strict. We have strict rules- you clean up after yourself immediately (toys, dishes, etc), you eat the food that is served and won’t get a snack later, we don’t do warnings (eg saying “stop doing XYZ” several times without actually enforcing it). But, I also use way more positive reinforcement than any other parent I know. I rarely have to use punishment. I’ve never had to raise my voice or use physical punishment. If my kids throw a fit, I don’t get emotional, I just stay cool and don’t give in.

I was a dog trainer for years before having kids, and I think people believe you either need to punish all the time (mean), or you need to let your dog/kid/whoever do whatever they want (nice), when you don’t need to do either.

Yes this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not always that simple. My 10 yo can calmly ask if we can discuss something if he truly does not agree and sometimes we can. Not everything is a hard line rule. It’s different than when the kids were little and the rules were don’t run into the road, use respectful language, wash your hands, pick up your toys, etc.

+1

For safety-related things, yes, I expect them to obey. But as they get older, I expect them to disagree with me sometimes, and to express that in a polite, respectful way. I am the parent, so I get to make the ultimate call, but I think that kids do need to learn how to object appropriately, or ask for my reasoning. I don't want them to blindly follow authority, but I also don't want them to be sneaky rule-breakers. If I say not to do something and my kid thinks there is a reason not to do that thing, they should tell me why. Maybe they are aware of something I'm not aware of. I want them to be able to use common sense and good judgment, and the only way they develop those things is by talking things through with me. If they ask why the rule is X, and I explain, then they have learned something (something practical or something about our family's values), which is more useful for their long-term happiness than just doing what I tell them without asking.