are we both crazy?

[Anonymous]

OP here, thanks for the insight everybody.

For clarification, I did not take the kid for a week. I threatened to do so, partially as a way of showing her that we could leave just as easily as she does. When we came back last night, she actually mocked me for not staying. After she told me to keep my mouth shut, she hissed at me, "Thought you said you were going to stay away for a week, tough guy?"

I simply wanted to get out of the house and go do something with our boy instead of wasting the day waiting for her to come back from her drive. Its stupid. She literally hijacks the day and that seems manipulative to me.

I never said I was a saint or that I didn't start my share of fights. I have a different way of resolving conflict, and I'm frustrated by my wife's response to run away any time things get tough. Especially to run away when you know your son is sitting there....she thinks of herself as a good Mom, but I'm not sure that's reality.

And no, she wasn't pushing me to "get away from me". I've never grabbed or hit or pushed or slapped her, but she has done all of those to me. You can mock me as a martyr or whatever, but that's the truth.

There are patterns showing themselves here, and the "she always does this..." is applicable in this sense.

[Anonymous]

OP if roles were revered you would be hearing (1) that you are being physically and emotionally abused and (2) leave and go to a shelter and (3) protect your child by getting a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP if roles were revered you would be hearing (1) that you are being physically and emotionally abused and (2) leave and go to a shelter and (3) protect your child by getting a divorce.

Completely agree. I am a woman and the responses to this post are so ridiculous. It would be completely different if the genders were switched here! OP, I think that you DO do the right thing. Okay people, when there is an issue, it needs to be addressed. It sounds like OP has no problem communicating it in a calm tone, and trying not to be too accusatory yet still confronting the issue head on. She responds with a tirade or escalation, and physical abuse. How is this OK? How is this OP’s fault??

OP, she could benefit from individual therapy and anger management but it doesn’t sound like you’ll have much luck getting her to agree to that. So maybe couples therapy, but you might have to come to terms with the fact that things may not work out in the long run. I wish you the best. You sound like a decent guy and a good dad.

[Anonymous]

File for divorce and for full custody of your son, because she's unstable. If she has full custody, she'll use him to manipulate you, and his life will be even more miserable. The fact that she yells at you while he's in another room and then gets mad if you respond because he's in another room tells me that she isn't thinking logically, and if she pushes you, that's domestic violence. And yes, a woman can be guilty of this. If a woman had written this, everyone would have taken her side and would have told her to take her child and get out. That's what I'm telling you. You are in an abusive relationship, you will not be ok, she will not change, and I am a woman giving you this advice.

[Anonymous]

OP

This is very familiar and was how our relationship was in the first few years after having a kid. It is pointless to figure out who is right/wrong because that is the problem. You are both incredibly defensive and neither of you feel heard. When she screams you are not listening to me, what she is really saying is "I do not feel heard or understood." And neither of you feel that way because you start right off the bat defensively. I am not going to go into all the details but here is what worked for us--truly worked.

We had some counseling that broke down barriers of defensiveness and resentment. We talked through a couple things and got to a starting point which is that 1) we loved each other; 2) we didn't want to continue this way 3) we acknowledged our communication was the issue more than any single disagreement and 4) what we were doing was damaging our marriage and bad for our kid.

We had to retrain ourselves to talk and listen. step one was using "I" language. you may think you are using I language when you say "I really wish you would..." but in fact, you are not, its just a passive way of blaming. "I language " is "I would like to better understand X." I feel we are not making progress toward Y. I am feeling stressed out by X demands and want to find a solution. Can we talk about ways of doing this?

Once you truly remove blame language--whether direct or passive--the respondent should not respond with immediate defensiveness. This took training for both of us, as it was so ingrained, and had a lot to do with how we were each raised (DH was raised with defensive critical parents, I was raised where people didn't work out conflicts for ages and then it exploded).

Then, we had to learn that our first reaction was NOT to be defensive but rather to validate the other person's experience. We had to do exercises that felt silly and forced at first--we had to mirror what the other person was (we thought) saying BEFORE we reacted with our own feelings or responses. SO it was "so, I think you're saying that you feel upset because of X, is that right?"


this seems simple, it was hard at first. but it lead to real discussions about conflict. We also learned to table conflict, and find specific times to talk. And once we built the confidence that we would actually address things, we were able t p ut aside the urgent need to get into conflict, knowing that we would have an opportunity to work things out.


I am not going to comment on all the ins and outs and she did/I said of your post because, as I learned, these things are incredibly subjective AND the more you try t prove the other person is in the wrong, the more you will both fail to solve the issues. So the first order of business is to stop trying to prove to yourself, and DCUM how wrong your wife is (she may be, but you're also a participant)--and step back and get some help and some outside perspective on the dynamics. For us, once each us agreed to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, once we were able to actually HEAR each other because we were not immediately REACTING to tone, perceived criticism, etc, we made progress.

Our marriage is not perfect but I can't remember the last time we had one of those fights. And several years ago I was sure we were going to split up because our fights were so horrible--not that we were violent, but that each of us was totally convinced that the other person was the problem. I had to throw out that idea completely--it wasn't even that I had to accept my culpability, it was that I had to decide that proving the other person's wrongness was never, ever going to solve things and would make it worse.

[Anonymous]

poor kid.

[Anonymous]

This is a really unhealthy dynamic. Major communication issues, a lot of blame/no accountability in your OP, a lot of poor behavior that you describe in her, both red flags from both ends.

It sounds to me like both of you are abusive emotionally and sometimes physically (sometimes it gets violent??) with each other. I'm not sure where the cycle began, but it has to end. Therapy as a couple won't usually help without a specialist; individual and family (vs. marital) counseling may help in the interest of your child.

Right now, this sounds dysfunctional.

[Anonymous]

And yes. You both sound crazy. Crazy making crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP

This is very familiar and was how our relationship was in the first few years after having a kid. It is pointless to figure out who is right/wrong because that is the problem. You are both incredibly defensive and neither of you feel heard. When she screams you are not listening to me, what she is really saying is "I do not feel heard or understood." And neither of you feel that way because you start right off the bat defensively. I am not going to go into all the details but here is what worked for us--truly worked.

We had some counseling that broke down barriers of defensiveness and resentment. We talked through a couple things and got to a starting point which is that 1) we loved each other; 2) we didn't want to continue this way 3) we acknowledged our communication was the issue more than any single disagreement and 4) what we were doing was damaging our marriage and bad for our kid.

We had to retrain ourselves to talk and listen. step one was using "I" language. you may think you are using I language when you say "I really wish you would..." but in fact, you are not, its just a passive way of blaming. "I language " is "I would like to better understand X." I feel we are not making progress toward Y. I am feeling stressed out by X demands and want to find a solution. Can we talk about ways of doing this?

Once you truly remove blame language--whether direct or passive--the respondent should not respond with immediate defensiveness. This took training for both of us, as it was so ingrained, and had a lot to do with how we were each raised (DH was raised with defensive critical parents, I was raised where people didn't work out conflicts for ages and then it exploded).

Then, we had to learn that our first reaction was NOT to be defensive but rather to validate the other person's experience. We had to do exercises that felt silly and forced at first--we had to mirror what the other person was (we thought) saying BEFORE we reacted with our own feelings or responses. SO it was "so, I think you're saying that you feel upset because of X, is that right?"


this seems simple, it was hard at first. but it lead to real discussions about conflict. We also learned to table conflict, and find specific times to talk. And once we built the confidence that we would actually address things, we were able t p ut aside the urgent need to get into conflict, knowing that we would have an opportunity to work things out.


I am not going to comment on all the ins and outs and she did/I said of your post because, as I learned, these things are incredibly subjective AND the more you try t prove the other person is in the wrong, the more you will both fail to solve the issues. So the first order of business is to stop trying to prove to yourself, and DCUM how wrong your wife is (she may be, but you're also a participant)--and step back and get some help and some outside perspective on the dynamics. For us, once each us agreed to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, once we were able to actually HEAR each other because we were not immediately REACTING to tone, perceived criticism, etc, we made progress.

Our marriage is not perfect but I can't remember the last time we had one of those fights. And several years ago I was sure we were going to split up because our fights were so horrible--not that we were violent, but that each of us was totally convinced that the other person was the problem. I had to throw out that idea completely--it wasn't even that I had to accept my culpability, it was that I had to decide that proving the other person's wrongness was never, ever going to solve things and would make it worse.

This is great advice.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you are both crazy. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I think you should absolutely break up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:File for divorce and for full custody of your son, because she's unstable. If she has full custody, she'll use him to manipulate you, and his life will be even more miserable. The fact that she yells at you while he's in another room and then gets mad if you respond because he's in another room tells me that she isn't thinking logically, and if she pushes you, that's domestic violence. And yes, a woman can be guilty of this. If a woman had written this, everyone would have taken her side and would have told her to take her child and get out. That's what I'm telling you. You are in an abusive relationship, you will not be ok, she will not change, and I am a woman giving you this advice.

I agree with this and I am a woman, too. She is unstable and your son is not her priority when she’s unhinged. This is scary. You taking him out of that environment was and will always be the right thing to do. You both needed that pleasant distraction to forget that moment. Please always protect him. You will always be the parent that he feels safe with. He is top priority, not her. Don’t enable her behavior anymore. Continue with your plans without her. A boy and his dad...there’s still hope that he’ll come out unscathed. She needs intensive therapy (solo) to rule out post pardom, hormone imbalance, extreme PMS. Document her outbursts, run away behavior and every physical aggression. Full custody if it should ever get to that point. So sorry!

[Anonymous]

Eh, I used to bolt out of the house, too. I stopped when I had a child because I didn't want to miss a day with him while I took time to cool off.

I used to bolt because I couldn't get my husband to actually talk about issues. He's more comfortable just "getting along" but not hashing things out. I would get so frustrated but didn't have an outlet since our conversations were one-sided (me talking or complaining and him basically telling me to forget X).

So I would leave to go clear my head. Nothing ever got resolved but I felt calmer when I came back 2-4 hours later.

So maybe bolting wasn't healthy but neither was him refusing to talk about anything. Sadly, I don't get as frustrated as I did before but only because I don't care to beat a dead horse trying to discuss my concerns.

[Anonymous]

I'm a dad who has been in a similar spot, and if what OP is saying is even close to accurate, you can bet dollars to donuts the kid will always gravitate toward Dad.

If the Mom actually cared about the kid (and their relationship), she wouldn't bail like this. OP should watch out because she's going to keep doing this.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
Thank you all again for your advice and thoughts.

After a day of silence between us, I tried to fairly and openly communicate my thoughts and feelings to my wife last night via text.

As usual, she ignored all of them. When I told her this morning how much that hurt my feelings, she told me not to write her in the middle of the night, although it was 9 pm and she was upstairs on her phone).

I told her that it seems like she doesn't care about or even respect my thoughts and feelings and that I didn't want to fight in front of the boy, so I went downstairs to get away from her and get ready for work.

She, of course, followed me downstairs and started screaming at me while the kid is upstairs crying and wanting to finish the breakfast she started feeding him.

She actually stopped feeding her baby to continue yelling at me. She also told me that my feelings and thoughts are "Blah blah blah". Even those of you blaming me for all of this can surely see how invalidating and cruel her words are.

Since she has blocked me via text and phone, I am going to write her today with a list of issues that have gone unresolved for several years. These include my insistence that she see an individual therapist...I made this request after she pushed me down the stairs two years ago and tried to cut her wrists with a kitchen knife. I have been seeing the same therapist for over four years and it has been a tremendous help; she has seen at least four therapists over the past two years and will not commit to any of them; they're all too hard on her background, apparently.

I'm going to tell her that if steps are not taken to resolve all of the issues, I will have no choice but to file for divorce in order to provide a stable situation for our son.

I also plan on telling her I am going to file for full custody; I am in the process of changing jobs from an office/cubicle government gig to a remote work with travel situation, and I will be able to live wherever I want. I will also be making more money than her, living in a place with better schools and higher median income than our current neighborhood. I don't have every indiscretion of hers documented, but I have a few.

Is there any way a judge would side with me?