SIL

[Anonymous]

OP, disengage from being a people pleaser. If she throws a tantrum, so what, if that's what it takes to put it on a level playing field. And if I understand correctly, let her go to high school reunion instead of confirmation. Not only is reunion more important, but it is a good way to disengage and have the credit in your account. Let it go and stop giving what you're not getting.

[Anonymous]

The answer depends on whether you want her at the confirmation. When I have a family event and want someone to show up, I contact them before setting the date. For example, I check with my in laws, parents, and husband's brothers when picking a birthday party date. I also checked with close family when setting a wedding date and I honestly don't even know why they had certain date preferences, but it was no skin off my back to pick a mutually convenient date. But I want these family members at these events, so I check first. If you don't care if she's there, don't bother to check, but not checking does signal a lack of concern re: whether she comes for better or worse. No value judgment here - if it's not important that she show up, don't worry about it.

But if it is important that she be there, it's odd not to check. High school reunions happen very occasionally and some people are really into them. I guess I'm not understanding why you're upset that she is conflicted - is she just annoying about it? I'm Jewish so I don't know how you schedule confirmation dates, but my brother asked me for good dates for me when his daughter had a bat mitzvah, and that seemed reasonable.

Anyway, it sounds like you just don't like her or her kids, and this isn't really the big issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. SIL makes a HUGE deal that we must attend her family events. Everything is a ten on a scale of one to ten. And we've done so, even when inconvenient. We have been a lot more flex on our stuff, but kids are asking that their only aunt and uncle and cousins be there for the confirmation. Both sets of g'parents coming in, etc. There are not regularly schedule family events and this would be the one for the year.

On the cousin front, DH overheard our DCs complaining about cousins and the one-way interactions. They noticed less when they were younger, but now as teens, they more clearly see what's going on, that they are expected to entertain and hang out with DCs younger than them but their cousins don't have to do that with them. On the wedding front, DH caved to his sister's request, but would probably not do so now (no, it was not a surgery, wedding, or graduation).

Are you sure they aren't just sensing your frustration and/or overhearing your comments? My mother was a lot like you with our aunts and their kids. My sister and I picked up on it. It took years for me to figure out that my mother was the problem -- not my cousins. My mother drove a lot of the "well, we went to X event, but they can make the time to come to Y for us" talk. I'm sure she'll swear up and down that she didn't complain in front of her kids, but it was the snide comments.

You can't control other people. If you let other people control you, that's your problem -- not theirs. The answer here isn't to guilt her into attending your events because she guilted you into attending hers and/or changing yours in the past. The answer is to stop scheduling around her but ALSO don't get bent out of shape if she can't attend.

Don't use your kids as an excuse. I've seen people do this. "The kids will be SO disappointed" when in reality the kids will be mildly disappointed but get over it pretty quickly. If it's really the kids you are worried about, then arrange for a confirmation dinner with Auntie and family for the following weekend.

As for rescheduling the wedding, your ire shouldn't be directed at your SIL. It should be directed at your husband for not setting boundaries then and there. But stop the cycle now.

I also agree with other PPs that you are too enmeshed. No, it isn't love -- obviously. As you both have all of this resentment and guilt game-playing going on. If it were truly love that enmeshed you, you wouldn't be so resentful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, disengage from being a people pleaser. If she throws a tantrum, so what, if that's what it takes to put it on a level playing field. And if I understand correctly, let her go to high school reunion instead of confirmation. Not only is reunion more important, but it is a good way to disengage and have the credit in your account. Let it go and stop giving what you're not getting.

won't argue if a reunion is more important than a family event with precedent or about getting credit in our account - we moved our wedding date and rather than being gracious she told us, "well, you had no choice because I had to be there." Really appreciate the advice to stop being a people pleaser. Clearly I expect reciprocity and it is not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The answer depends on whether you want her at the confirmation. When I have a family event and want someone to show up, I contact them before setting the date. For example, I check with my in laws, parents, and husband's brothers when picking a birthday party date. I also checked with close family when setting a wedding date and I honestly don't even know why they had certain date preferences, but it was no skin off my back to pick a mutually convenient date. But I want these family members at these events, so I check first. If you don't care if she's there, don't bother to check, but not checking does signal a lack of concern re: whether she comes for better or worse. No value judgment here - if it's not important that she show up, don't worry about it.

But if it is important that she be there, it's odd not to check. High school reunions happen very occasionally and some people are really into them. I guess I'm not understanding why you're upset that she is conflicted - is she just annoying about it? I'm Jewish so I don't know how you schedule confirmation dates, but my brother asked me for good dates for me when his daughter had a bat mitzvah, and that seemed reasonable.

Anyway, it sounds like you just don't like her or her kids, and this isn't really the big issue.

Yes, she is annoying about it. She keeps on mentioning how she has to miss it. We did not have a choice with dates - the church sets it, not us. I had checked to see about her kids' school schedule just so we would know in advance.

We have a better relationship than what we had years ago. DH appreciates that I've hung in there given that there were some pretty bad years with her. Love the kids. I don't like that they show up and sit on their phones and their parents fail to remind them to spend a bit time with their cousins as they see them so infrequently. Their youngest is only 2 1/2 years older than our oldest yet the parents act as if it is a generation.

When the get togethers are informal, I love seeing them. Whenever it involves something that is important to us (but is no longer important to them as their kids are older and through the phase), then it gets tense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. SIL makes a HUGE deal that we must attend her family events. Everything is a ten on a scale of one to ten. And we've done so, even when inconvenient. We have been a lot more flex on our stuff, but kids are asking that their only aunt and uncle and cousins be there for the confirmation. Both sets of g'parents coming in, etc. There are not regularly schedule family events and this would be the one for the year.

On the cousin front, DH overheard our DCs complaining about cousins and the one-way interactions. They noticed less when they were younger, but now as teens, they more clearly see what's going on, that they are expected to entertain and hang out with DCs younger than them but their cousins don't have to do that with them. On the wedding front, DH caved to his sister's request, but would probably not do so now (no, it was not a surgery, wedding, or graduation).

Are you sure they aren't just sensing your frustration and/or overhearing your comments? My mother was a lot like you with our aunts and their kids. My sister and I picked up on it. It took years for me to figure out that my mother was the problem -- not my cousins. My mother drove a lot of the "well, we went to X event, but they can make the time to come to Y for us" talk. I'm sure she'll swear up and down that she didn't complain in front of her kids, but it was the snide comments.

You can't control other people. If you let other people control you, that's your problem -- not theirs. The answer here isn't to guilt her into attending your events because she guilted you into attending hers and/or changing yours in the past. The answer is to stop scheduling around her but ALSO don't get bent out of shape if she can't attend.

Don't use your kids as an excuse. I've seen people do this. "The kids will be SO disappointed" when in reality the kids will be mildly disappointed but get over it pretty quickly. If it's really the kids you are worried about, then arrange for a confirmation dinner with Auntie and family for the following weekend.

As for rescheduling the wedding, your ire shouldn't be directed at your SIL. It should be directed at your husband for not setting boundaries then and there. But stop the cycle now.

I also agree with other PPs that you are too enmeshed. No, it isn't love -- obviously. As you both have all of this resentment and guilt game-playing going on. If it were truly love that enmeshed you, you wouldn't be so resentful.

Regarding our kids, I doubt they are overhearing us. I made a rule with DH years ago - his mom drives him crazy - that he could not complain about her in front of the kids. Some day they would grow up and might see her failings but she is a pretty great grandma and let them have that relationship. Ditto for the sister and her DH. Regarding the cousins, my kids, like many tweens and teens, are pretty intuitive - they don't need to overhear DH or me to know they are getting blown off.

[Anonymous]

Hit send too early. FWIW, I did not use enmesh to describe the relationship - a PP used it as a criticism of apparently too much planning between the families.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you have to be upfront with your kids that the (church) scheduled date might not work for Aunt/Cousins. Then tell Aunt that she's free to do what she wants. If she'd rather go to her reunion, by all means go and we'll catch up with you another time. If she picks confirmation, then it takes the wind out of her reminders that she's missing reunion for your kids.

When it comes to her events, go to what works. If that means you miss the county lacrosse game, so be it. She can squeak and squawk and you can say something like "it does get harder to get to everything we want to as the kids get older." and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, disengage from being a people pleaser. If she throws a tantrum, so what, if that's what it takes to put it on a level playing field. And if I understand correctly, let her go to high school reunion instead of confirmation. Not only is reunion more important, but it is a good way to disengage and have the credit in your account. Let it go and stop giving what you're not getting.

won't argue if a reunion is more important than a family event with precedent or about getting credit in our account - we moved our wedding date and rather than being gracious she told us, "well, you had no choice because I had to be there." Really appreciate the advice to stop being a people pleaser. Clearly I expect reciprocity and it is not going to happen.

NP. You keep talking about how you moved your wedding date which indicates that you are still bothered by it. Do you think this somehow means she should be indebted to you and make more of an effort to attend your family's events? She has made it clear that your family is not a priority for her. Not sure why you would expect reciprocity when it has never actually happened. It sucks but you can't change it. You also seem to hold the opinion that a reunion isn't as important as your family event, but that's not really your call to make. SIL does get to decide what is important to her and how she'll spend her time. You can't expect her to have the same priorities as you and DH, regardless of whether there is precedence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. SIL makes a HUGE deal that we must attend her family events. Everything is a ten on a scale of one to ten. And we've done so, even when inconvenient. We have been a lot more flex on our stuff, but kids are asking that their only aunt and uncle and cousins be there for the confirmation. Both sets of g'parents coming in, etc. There are not regularly schedule family events and this would be the one for the year.

On the cousin front, DH overheard our DCs complaining about cousins and the one-way interactions. They noticed less when they were younger, but now as teens, they more clearly see what's going on, that they are expected to entertain and hang out with DCs younger than them but their cousins don't have to do that with them. On the wedding front, DH caved to his sister's request, but would probably not do so now (no, it was not a surgery, wedding, or graduation).

Are you sure they aren't just sensing your frustration and/or overhearing your comments? My mother was a lot like you with our aunts and their kids. My sister and I picked up on it. It took years for me to figure out that my mother was the problem -- not my cousins. My mother drove a lot of the "well, we went to X event, but they can make the time to come to Y for us" talk. I'm sure she'll swear up and down that she didn't complain in front of her kids, but it was the snide comments.

You can't control other people. If you let other people control you, that's your problem -- not theirs. The answer here isn't to guilt her into attending your events because she guilted you into attending hers and/or changing yours in the past. The answer is to stop scheduling around her but ALSO don't get bent out of shape if she can't attend.

Don't use your kids as an excuse. I've seen people do this. "The kids will be SO disappointed" when in reality the kids will be mildly disappointed but get over it pretty quickly. If it's really the kids you are worried about, then arrange for a confirmation dinner with Auntie and family for the following weekend.

As for rescheduling the wedding, your ire shouldn't be directed at your SIL. It should be directed at your husband for not setting boundaries then and there. But stop the cycle now.

I also agree with other PPs that you are too enmeshed. No, it isn't love -- obviously. As you both have all of this resentment and guilt game-playing going on. If it were truly love that enmeshed you, you wouldn't be so resentful.

Regarding our kids, I doubt they are overhearing us. I made a rule with DH years ago - his mom drives him crazy - that he could not complain about her in front of the kids. Some day they would grow up and might see her failings but she is a pretty great grandma and let them have that relationship. Ditto for the sister and her DH. Regarding the cousins, my kids, like many tweens and teens, are pretty intuitive - they don't need to overhear DH or me to know they are getting blown off.

NP. You may be right about your kids sensing that their cousins want nothing to do with them. I had a similar dynamic in my family so I know kids pick up on this. BUT, if your kids feel this way, then why would you continue to subject them to family that keeps blowing them off?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drop. The. Rope.

Show up when you can, be pleasant, celebrate. If you genuinely can't make it, then you genuinely can't make it, and offer sincere regrets, then keep it moving. If she throws a fit, she throws a fit.

Extend invitations to your events. If she can't make it, she can't make it. Offer sincere regrets that she can't join you, and say you look forward to the next time. If she throws a fit that you won't reschedule, then she throws a fit.

Take yourself out of this ridiculous game. DROP THE ROPE.

Exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, disengage from being a people pleaser. If she throws a tantrum, so what, if that's what it takes to put it on a level playing field. And if I understand correctly, let her go to high school reunion instead of confirmation. Not only is reunion more important, but it is a good way to disengage and have the credit in your account. Let it go and stop giving what you're not getting.

won't argue if a reunion is more important than a family event with precedent or about getting credit in our account - we moved our wedding date and rather than being gracious she told us, "well, you had no choice because I had to be there." Really appreciate the advice to stop being a people pleaser. Clearly I expect reciprocity and it is not going to happen.

NP. You keep talking about how you moved your wedding date which indicates that you are still bothered by it. Do you think this somehow means she should be indebted to you and make more of an effort to attend your family's events? She has made it clear that your family is not a priority for her. Not sure why you would expect reciprocity when it has never actually happened. It sucks but you can't change it. You also seem to hold the opinion that a reunion isn't as important as your family event, but that's not really your call to make. SIL does get to decide what is important to her and how she'll spend her time. You can't expect her to have the same priorities as you and DH, regardless of whether there is precedence.

Sigh, yes. I am accustomed to a give and take - you show up for other family events and they do same for you. As the relationship has improved, I had hoped that this would also evolve. But clearly not going to happen. I appreciate you realize it sucks. DH is kind of beside himself. Said last night he realizes that she will never make an effort for him in the way he feels he does for her and her family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drop. The. Rope.

Show up when you can, be pleasant, celebrate. If you genuinely can't make it, then you genuinely can't make it, and offer sincere regrets, then keep it moving. If she throws a fit, she throws a fit.

Extend invitations to your events. If she can't make it, she can't make it. Offer sincere regrets that she can't join you, and say you look forward to the next time. If she throws a fit that you won't reschedule, then she throws a fit.

Take yourself out of this ridiculous game. DROP THE ROPE.

Exactly this.

This. A million times. It doesn't matter what you think she owes you, what you think she should do, what you think is fair--she's not going to do it. You already know this. So stop keeping score, because you're going to lose, because this is a stupid game. Her tantrums when you can't attend or can't reschedule are not your problem.