Please wake me from this real estate nightmare, or just give me your advice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- just two points in our defense!

-Yes, you can get Lyme disease anywhere. (It's still pretty rare in California though!) However, there are definite Lyme hot spots -- like, houses with large fields where deer graze, near water sources, surrounded by ancient stone walls where chipmunks and mice live. That's our house. And this town in general has a measurably higher Lyme Index then most -- yes, the state keeps track -- and we have met many people who have been incapacitated by the disease.

-Are we being immature and impulsive? I'm quite worried that we are! However, it's so hard to separate what is the experience of the disease and what is just "the suburbs didn't turn out like we thought" syndrome. Would you say that longtime city people who moved to the far-out 'burbs and hated it after 18-months and wanted to move back were impulsive? Because that happens all the time. We might have gone crazy with boredom and isolation even if we were in the pink of health. It's impossible to tell. That's a huge part of this puzzle for me.

The Lyme index in the town didn't skyrocket when you purchased the house. You bought that house (not in CA) where there already was a Lyme hot spot. What do YOU want to do? If you just want to complain then please do. Or you can start looking at moving.

Actually, the Lyme Index of the town -- my hometown -- DID skyrocket in the time that I was away. Strangely, suburban development actually increases the incidence of the disease, and this town has became much more densely populated because lots of people like it. But you're right, I did not think to check the Lyme Index before we moved, because I didn't even know the disease was a big deal if you got it. I do now know several people, though, who selected their homes on the basis of Lyme-repellent features. People really do that, for real.
Please believe that I honestly do not want to complain. I have three kids and a job! We are on the verge of signing a lease on a city house nd I just want to do all that I can to make sure that we are making the right decision. Thank you for your help!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- just two points in our defense!

-Yes, you can get Lyme disease anywhere. (It's still pretty rare in California though!) However, there are definite Lyme hot spots -- like, houses with large fields where deer graze, near water sources, surrounded by ancient stone walls where chipmunks and mice live. That's our house. And this town in general has a measurably higher Lyme Index then most -- yes, the state keeps track -- and we have met many people who have been incapacitated by the disease.

-Are we being immature and impulsive? I'm quite worried that we are! However, it's so hard to separate what is the experience of the disease and what is just "the suburbs didn't turn out like we thought" syndrome. Would you say that longtime city people who moved to the far-out 'burbs and hated it after 18-months and wanted to move back were impulsive? Because that happens all the time. We might have gone crazy with boredom and isolation even if we were in the pink of health. It's impossible to tell. That's a huge part of this puzzle for me.

The Lyme index in the town didn't skyrocket when you purchased the house. You bought that house (not in CA) where there already was a Lyme hot spot. What do YOU want to do? If you just want to complain then please do. Or you can start looking at moving.

Actually, the Lyme Index of the town -- my hometown -- DID skyrocket in the time that I was away. Strangely, suburban development actually increases the incidence of the disease, and this town has became much more densely populated because lots of people like it. But you're right, I did not think to check the Lyme Index before we moved, because I didn't even know the disease was a big deal if you got it. I do now know several people, though, who selected their homes on the basis of Lyme-repellent features. People really do that, for real.
Please believe that I honestly do not want to complain. I have three kids and a job! We are on the verge of signing a lease on a city house nd I just want to do all that I can to make sure that we are making the right decision. Thank you for your help!

Only you know if that is the right decision for your family but from what you have said it sounds like it is. But you have to be real to yourself. Lyme is STILL THERE. You won't get away from it. I am the NE DC poster who doesn't hike and got it in the city. I woke up one morning and couldn't walk. Not at all. It was very scary and horrible. I had no idea about Lyme either but since having it I know anyone can get it. You can get it in CA and get it in FL. Learn more about it.

But then again -- this isn't at all about Lyme or you would be moving to CA instead of renting a house in the city. Just admit to yourself you made a mistake regardless of Lyme, take your losses and move on.

[Anonymous]

Stay in Vermont, but move to a city. Then you get the best of both worlds -- and you're still outta crazy DC!

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I'm the immediate PP. I projected Vermont onto you. You said New England. My advice still holds. Move to a city or town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go see someone about your anxiety.

+1 Seriously.

And you're still in the first year postpartum? Do you tend towards anxiety? I would be looking for some help from a therapist first of all.

This is not a real estate nightmare--rather bad luck with a bad illness. Talk with someone about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- just two points in our defense!

-Yes, you can get Lyme disease anywhere. (It's still pretty rare in California though!) However, there are definite Lyme hot spots -- like, houses with large fields where deer graze, near water sources, surrounded by ancient stone walls where chipmunks and mice live. That's our house. And this town in general has a measurably higher Lyme Index then most -- yes, the state keeps track -- and we have met many people who have been incapacitated by the disease.

-Are we being immature and impulsive? I'm quite worried that we are! However, it's so hard to separate what is the experience of the disease and what is just "the suburbs didn't turn out like we thought" syndrome. Would you say that longtime city people who moved to the far-out 'burbs and hated it after 18-months and wanted to move back were impulsive? Because that happens all the time. We might have gone crazy with boredom and isolation even if we were in the pink of health. It's impossible to tell. That's a huge part of this puzzle for me.

I live in Crestwood (in the heart of NW DC) and your first point describes my home and neighborhood exactly.

[Anonymous]

I understand your turmoil; I don't think your thought process is immature at all. You've all been traumatized by this and you want the nightmare to end. You don't want to have to worry about it happening again. Yes, you could cross a street and get hit by a bus, but I think it is human nature to try to eliminate "dangers" when we possibly can, especially if there are kids involved.

So my take on this is that your decision to stay or go is part based on fact (look, there are definitely some places where deer ticks are more prevalent. No one can deny that. So if you happen to be in a high incidence area, the question becomes what is every possible thing you can do to minimize the risk, and are you doing it) and part, a larger part, based on emotion. it's almost a form a PTSD. You look out the window, you think Lyme disease. How many times have each of us had something bad happen to us and we say, "never again," even though the chances of it happening again may be much less than we perceive it to be or negotiable?

When it comes down to it, the facts matter less than the feels. I know a friend who was mugged in NY, on the Upper East Side. She couldn't walk down the street in her own neighborhood after that without looking over her shoulder. What are the chances she'd get mugged again, especially considering where in NYC she lives, that she had a doorman building, that she lived on a street where there was plenty of foot traffic, etc.?

She moved b/c she didn't want to live like that. Even seeing a therapist didn't help to mute the fear to the point where she decided to hell with the facts, she wasn't comfortable living in NYC anymore. She moved to a smaller, cute college town and she is as thrilled as can be. Does she miss elements of the city? Absolutely. But she feels her quality of life and peace of mind has dramatically improved. Was it because she secretly didn't like living in the city anymore and used this as an excuse? Nope. I do not believe so.

As far as your situation, no one can give you an accurate statistic as to whether you or your kids will personally get bitten. Or your husband again for that matter.

I think when you mentioned things like "the schools are shaky" that's what is leading some people to interpret that as you just want to go back to the city and are using this as an excuse. I don't get that sense from your email. What I get is, you have had this horrible thing happen, and now you are re-evaluating everything about the move. Things that you accepted before now loom like bigger factors. You are putting together a story, so to speak, about you and your family's life in that area. I think that is totally normal and not impulsive.

Weigh how much you love the neighborhood and living near your parents. Weigh the financial impact. Make sure you talk to every expert about minimizing risks. Then decide as a family if there is just too much bad associated with staying there, and if it will continue to negatively impact your lives in a way that outweighs the positive.

I mean, sheesh... If I lived at the Shining and managed to escape... and after someone new bought the property, had an exorcism there, updated the decor to something more contemporary and had some of the Game of Thrones dragons protecting the place... I'm still not sure I'd want to go stay there for a "vacation" again....

[Anonymous]

STAY and make connections at your school/church/neighborhood etc. Really decide this is my place and make the effort to make it work. If in another 18 months you are still feeling isolated, then reevaluate.

this is different but my DH and I left DC when we turned 30 to move back to New England to be closer to family and have kids. We bought in the burbs and had a baby and it was rough to some degree -- we really missed DC and our friends and network there but it was really just us missing our 20s. We have a decent commute in New England and could afford a real house where we can host people and our kids can have space... in DC we would be in a tiny home if we wanted a decent commute or equally isolated as we felt when we moved in some far out suburb like Ashburton where we didn't know anyone anyways. We took the time to meet people through our church and our child's daycare and made some friends through our work. 3 years later we are loving our lives.

[Anonymous]

lyme ticks are not limited to deer only. If you have animails such as fox, etc, they are also carriers. I "think" I got lyme (blood tests are not accurate) about 15 years back so took antibiotics as a precaution, however, not good to be paranoid and keep things in perspective. I still live on the same 5-acre lot in Fairfax County and see deer and other animals all the time. I go out in shorts and sandals during the warmer weather all the time and mow the lawn, etc. My biggest problem with deer is not lyme, but the fact they do significant harm to your vegetation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can put a 6 foot (or even 8 foot) fence around the perimeter of your property to keep the deer out.

I'm really hoping this is sarcasm. If not, you do realize the ticks aren't actually still attached to the deer when they bite you, right? But once again, I'm really hoping this is sarcasm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go see someone about your anxiety.

+1 Seriously.

And you're still in the first year postpartum? Do you tend towards anxiety? I would be looking for some help from a therapist first of all.

This is not a real estate nightmare--rather bad luck with a bad illness. Talk with someone about it.

OP here -- yes, still in first year postpartum, and that is another wild card in all of this. In the past I wouldn't describe myself as anxious but as type-A. Possibly at this point my descriptions and impressions are tinged with mild depression -- it's hard to say. Given that I'm still living with a sick husband in an isolated environment, I think I could be understandably depressed without a recent pregnancy, too.

However. I get that being scared of tiny ticks sounds like anxiety -- two years ago, as a born-and-bred New Englander, I would have been right there with you. It sounds like a Stephen King novel -- I know! But to see that I am not totally cuckoo, and to get the true flavor of what Lyme disease is and what it does to you and how and why it is spreading, check out this New Yorker piece:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/07/01/the-lyme-wars


Having experienced this directly, having met fellow residents who have been paralyzed and blinded and bedridden by this disease (there is also a huge Lyme disease support group, which I have never even attended, and endless conventions and town summits on the disease), and then picking a tick of my kid's leg after sending her out in long sleeves, long pants and sneakers and socks, I feel like a little paranoia is warranted here. Just as my concern about getting mugged in a city environment is warranted. Why do I know this? Because I was mugged in my lovely, pricey DC neighborhood. Our car was stolen too. It's not something I obsess over. But it is something that I acknowledge in weighing pros and cons of various places.

[Anonymous]

Agree w/ PPs who point out fencing out deer does not really help with the problem. When my daughter was 3 she was bitten by a tick on Fire Island. She didn't touch any deer, or even get close. Best guess is she brushed up against some trees and it attached to her from there. She was also given antibiotics immediately after we noticed the target bite. She is fine today. But we were scared! We've gone back to Fire Island many times since, but (1) the island itself made a greater attempt to control the ticks and (2) we do spray the sh*t out of ourselves with lots of big bad chemicals to try to prevent it from happening again. But if she had developed active Lyme disease like your husband did...or if the Island didn't bump up efforts to control the situation, I dunno how we would've felt about going back.

[Anonymous]

You still traumatized from this experience. Is there a happy medium? Moving closer to town but stay in the same area so your kids keep friends and schools? Have either of you talked with a therapist about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can put a 6 foot (or even 8 foot) fence around the perimeter of your property to keep the deer out.

I'm really hoping this is sarcasm. If not, you do realize the ticks aren't actually still attached to the deer when they bite you, right? But once again, I'm really hoping this is sarcasm.

Actually I wasn't being sarcastic. Ticks are associated with the presence of deer. Even though the tick did not jump directly off the deer onto you, the deer did bring it to the area.

I admit my property is much smaller than OP's, but we put a fence around it and never have deer in the yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can put a 6 foot (or even 8 foot) fence around the perimeter of your property to keep the deer out.

I'm really hoping this is sarcasm. If not, you do realize the ticks aren't actually still attached to the deer when they bite you, right? But once again, I'm really hoping this is sarcasm.

Actually I wasn't being sarcastic. Ticks are associated with the presence of deer. Even though the tick did not jump directly off the deer onto you, the deer did bring it to the area.

I admit my property is much smaller than OP's, but we put a fence around it and never have deer in the yard.

Deer drop ticks within a few hundred yards of a house. Then the ticks latch onto mice and the mice come through the fence, dropping ticks in the yard. Mice are actually more important in the chain of transmission (to people, anyway).