7 Year Old DD: Controlling Behavior?

[Anonymous]

If she wants to be treated like her brother do it. She goes to bed when he does etc.

[Anonymous]

Waldorf believes in this huge change in year 6, maybe your DD is going through that a little late.

7 is an intense age. Grown up enough to understand a lot more but then sometimes overwhelmed by what's understood and trying to balance those two things out is a bitch. You want more independence but then get scared when you get it.

It's an intense age. I helped where it was no skin off my back - so I'd pick up a backpack, but not allow being cruel to a sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She punished you by not eating when you didn't make her lunch. Or thought she did. She's the one who didn't eat. In cases like that tell her it's fine if she chooses not to eat. Food was available. Her behavior needs to be shut down.

This is anxiety. She needs to learn to work through that - you can't discipline her out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We see some flashes of that with our DD who definitely has some anxieties. I try to talk through those worries in quiet moments and we role play situations that feel overwhelming to her (navigating social stuff on the playground, for example). Enforce your normal limits on things (don't pick up stuff on command, and require her to do it; don't tolerate mean or unkind behavior towards brother), but then look for a quiet time when you might suss out if something else is going on at school that is causing her to worry or be anxious.

Thank you! I can't tolerate mean behaviors, but I'm trying to be more measured in my responses and not escalate. She's so secretive about what happens in school. And hates talking about what's bothering her. (Worst of all, she gets that from me.)

Let this part go.

She doesn't "get that from [you]". She's her own person and she's got her own strengths and challenges. Focus on her as her.

I say this not to be a scold, but to encourage you not to feel guilty or take undue responsibility for aspects of her personality and behavior that are hers, not yours. Sure, she shares some of your genetics. And sure, she probably models some of your behavior. But by focusing on yourself, you're taking your eye off the ball here.

Focus on getting her to think about her feelings. My guess is there's some anxiety churning underneath. Controlling behaviors (and disproportional/explosive responses when efforts to control doesn't work) are common markers of anxiety.

Not saying it's a big deal and something that would require a therapist. Maybe it is. But maybe it's not. For now, I'd focus on finding ways to help her notice her feelings and put words around them. Even a little bit.

Here are two books that helped our DD some at that age (more so at age 9):

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Worry-Much/dp/1591473144

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3AS6YC1QYGX9XB7FVEQT

Both were recommended to me by others on this board. Good resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She punished you by not eating when you didn't make her lunch. Or thought she did. She's the one who didn't eat. In cases like that tell her it's fine if she chooses not to eat. Food was available. Her behavior needs to be shut down.

This is anxiety. She needs to learn to work through that - you can't discipline her out of it.

+1

That said, there's a way to do both at the same time.

She needs support working through the anxious feelings. Noticing them when they surge up and flood her mind and body. And then figuring out what to do next. (Ex. Take three slow, deep breaths before saying or doing anything . . . a few cycles of slowly and silently tap her left thumb with each finger on that hand before responding . . . . naming the feeling silently with an I-statement ('I'm really frustrated because . . . . )

She needs empathy and help to learn to cope with her "big feelings" -- notice/observe them, find an effective way to slow down and not respond impulsively, and then choose a more appropriate way to express or manage her feelings.

Which leads me to to the second part. The PP is right about this part. There's no reason you should tolerate awful outbursts or inappropriate behavior while she's also learning to work through her anxiety. It doesn't have to be harsh discipline. And you should be careful not to use shame as a tool here. But there's a way to be both kind and consistent when noticing and calling out her poor behavior every single time, and imposing a natural consequence in response. Otherwise, you're only helping her deepen her habit of over-respnding to her anxious feelings in an inappropriate way.

Try your best to seperate this issue into two parts: her triggering feelings (possibly anxiety) and her poor behavior (explosive outbursts etc.) There really is a way to be both firm about handling her bad BEHAVIOR while also being empathetic about her FEELINGS. It's not either/or.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the responses but my son, who has generalized anxiety, becomes very controlling and even defiant when he is experiencing a lot of anxiety. I had to train myself to understand what we were dealing with because punishment did not help AT ALL in any way shape or form. I try to remind myself how natural it is for a person, who feels out of control, to try to regain control. I am not advocating for you to give in to child's demands, or let child avoid what she doesn't like--this is every bit as unproductive as punishing child for feelings. I suggest getting some advice from a therapist who specializes in anxiety. We did and it was wonderful and life-changing for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She punished you by not eating when you didn't make her lunch. Or thought she did. She's the one who didn't eat. In cases like that tell her it's fine if she chooses not to eat. Food was available. Her behavior needs to be shut down.

This is anxiety. She needs to learn to work through that - you can't discipline her out of it.

Yes agreed. Disciplining anxiety seems to make it worse. That's why I'm looking for better strategies. But also wondering at which point the anxiety becomes a serious issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We see some flashes of that with our DD who definitely has some anxieties. I try to talk through those worries in quiet moments and we role play situations that feel overwhelming to her (navigating social stuff on the playground, for example). Enforce your normal limits on things (don't pick up stuff on command, and require her to do it; don't tolerate mean or unkind behavior towards brother), but then look for a quiet time when you might suss out if something else is going on at school that is causing her to worry or be anxious.

Thank you! I can't tolerate mean behaviors, but I'm trying to be more measured in my responses and not escalate. She's so secretive about what happens in school. And hates talking about what's bothering her. (Worst of all, she gets that from me.)

Let this part go.

She doesn't "get that from [you]". She's her own person and she's got her own strengths and challenges. Focus on her as her.

I say this not to be a scold, but to encourage you not to feel guilty or take undue responsibility for aspects of her personality and behavior that are hers, not yours. Sure, she shares some of your genetics. And sure, she probably models some of your behavior. But by focusing on yourself, you're taking your eye off the ball here.

Focus on getting her to think about her feelings. My guess is there's some anxiety churning underneath. Controlling behaviors (and disproportional/explosive responses when efforts to control doesn't work) are common markers of anxiety.

Not saying it's a big deal and something that would require a therapist. Maybe it is. But maybe it's not. For now, I'd focus on finding ways to help her notice her feelings and put words around them. Even a little bit.

Here are two books that helped our DD some at that age (more so at age 9):

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Worry-Much/dp/1591473144

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3AS6YC1QYGX9XB7FVEQT

Both were recommended to me by others on this board. Good resources.

THANK YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She punished you by not eating when you didn't make her lunch. Or thought she did. She's the one who didn't eat. In cases like that tell her it's fine if she chooses not to eat. Food was available. Her behavior needs to be shut down.

This is anxiety. She needs to learn to work through that - you can't discipline her out of it.

+1

That said, there's a way to do both at the same time.

She needs support working through the anxious feelings. Noticing them when they surge up and flood her mind and body. And then figuring out what to do next. (Ex. Take three slow, deep breaths before saying or doing anything . . . a few cycles of slowly and silently tap her left thumb with each finger on that hand before responding . . . . naming the feeling silently with an I-statement ('I'm really frustrated because . . . . )

She needs empathy and help to learn to cope with her "big feelings" -- notice/observe them, find an effective way to slow down and not respond impulsively, and then choose a more appropriate way to express or manage her feelings.

Which leads me to to the second part. The PP is right about this part. There's no reason you should tolerate awful outbursts or inappropriate behavior while she's also learning to work through her anxiety. It doesn't have to be harsh discipline. And you should be careful not to use shame as a tool here. But there's a way to be both kind and consistent when noticing and calling out her poor behavior every single time, and imposing a natural consequence in response. Otherwise, you're only helping her deepen her habit of over-respnding to her anxious feelings in an inappropriate way.

Try your best to seperate this issue into two parts: her triggering feelings (possibly anxiety) and her poor behavior (explosive outbursts etc.) There really is a way to be both firm about handling her bad BEHAVIOR while also being empathetic about her FEELINGS. It's not either/or.

THANK YOU. I see what you're saying. I'll be working on that.

[Anonymous]

My 7 y/o is really difficult right now, as soon as he walks in the house from school. I do think he is holding it together so much that he needs that combustion time at home. Here are a couple of things I've done to try and restore the equilibrium....

I used to have him put his lunchbox on the kitchen counter as soon as he got his shoes/coat off. Lately, he responding really angrily so after a week of this awful back-and-forth, I've now changed my "rule" to the lunchbox needs to be on the counter before he gets a snack. This gives him a bit of time to stretch out on the floor and play, before he has to "do" anything.

I also have a younger son, and the bickering and tone from the older is just annoying. Younger DS just wants to be near and interact with big brother as soon as he gets home, but I have come to realize that big brother just needs a freaking break, so I try to keep the younger kid occupied in another room for 20 minutes or so...usually by this time the 7 y/o brings his lunchbox into the kitchen and is ready for a snack. I feel like this is giving the older kid some much needed decompression time, but also enforcing the notion that he can't just ban the little brother from playing with him because the older kid is a freaking grump.

So maybe if your DD is refusing to do something and wants you to do it, instead of saying, "do it now", it can be "No, I'm not going to do it for you. It's your job to [do the action]. If you don't want to do it now, it has to be [picked up, put away, taken out] before [the next activity, snack, dinner, homework]. It's your choice of when, but you won't be able to [next activity] until you do it." I think that's being supportive of her needs without letting her walk all over you. You're expanding the original fence/boundary a little bit, but you're keeping a boundary.

And when she talks back, just keep repeating, "I've already told you what needs to be done." And ignore the rest. You can't engage when she says, "But you do it for little brother!"

My kids will go to their room to "collect themselves", if I tell them to, but they did mindfulness in preschool on a regular basis and so they have that awareness.

I try to keep in mind that the teachers and other parents always comment about how "good" my DS is, so he's only acting out at home. Right now, I'm trying to give him space (within reason) to work through things on his own, but I do call him out on mean behavior to the younger child and/or disrespect to me. I will give one warning for unkind words/behavior and then it's up to his room until he's ready to be kind. He usually stays in his room for a couple of minutes, does some breathing or maybe reads a short book, and then comes back with an apology.

If going to her room is an escalation for your DD, then maybe use a stair step or a comfy chair that she'll sit with a book and a blanket to try and work through the emotion. I would think that you might need to do some coaching at first (other posters had good ideas about breathing and tapping fingers).

Anyway, just some things I'm trying. Maybe something will help your situation. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We see some flashes of that with our DD who definitely has some anxieties. I try to talk through those worries in quiet moments and we role play situations that feel overwhelming to her (navigating social stuff on the playground, for example). Enforce your normal limits on things (don't pick up stuff on command, and require her to do it; don't tolerate mean or unkind behavior towards brother), but then look for a quiet time when you might suss out if something else is going on at school that is causing her to worry or be anxious.

Thank you! I can't tolerate mean behaviors, but I'm trying to be more measured in my responses and not escalate. She's so secretive about what happens in school. And hates talking about what's bothering her. (Worst of all, she gets that from me.)

Let this part go.

She doesn't "get that from [you]". She's her own person and she's got her own strengths and challenges. Focus on her as her.

I say this not to be a scold, but to encourage you not to feel guilty or take undue responsibility for aspects of her personality and behavior that are hers, not yours. Sure, she shares some of your genetics. And sure, she probably models some of your behavior. But by focusing on yourself, you're taking your eye off the ball here.

Focus on getting her to think about her feelings. My guess is there's some anxiety churning underneath. Controlling behaviors (and disproportional/explosive responses when efforts to control doesn't work) are common markers of anxiety.

Not saying it's a big deal and something that would require a therapist. Maybe it is. But maybe it's not. For now, I'd focus on finding ways to help her notice her feelings and put words around them. Even a little bit.

Here are two books that helped our DD some at that age (more so at age 9):

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Worry-Much/dp/1591473144

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Grumble-Much/dp/1591474507/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3AS6YC1QYGX9XB7FVEQT

Both were recommended to me by others on this board. Good resources.

THANK YOU.

Another good book for you is The Opposite of Worry. We had great success with good child psychologist who specializes in anxiety and cognitive behavioral therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 7 y/o is really difficult right now, as soon as he walks in the house from school. I do think he is holding it together so much that he needs that combustion time at home. Here are a couple of things I've done to try and restore the equilibrium....

I used to have him put his lunchbox on the kitchen counter as soon as he got his shoes/coat off. Lately, he responding really angrily so after a week of this awful back-and-forth, I've now changed my "rule" to the lunchbox needs to be on the counter before he gets a snack. This gives him a bit of time to stretch out on the floor and play, before he has to "do" anything.

I also have a younger son, and the bickering and tone from the older is just annoying. Younger DS just wants to be near and interact with big brother as soon as he gets home, but I have come to realize that big brother just needs a freaking break, so I try to keep the younger kid occupied in another room for 20 minutes or so...usually by this time the 7 y/o brings his lunchbox into the kitchen and is ready for a snack. I feel like this is giving the older kid some much needed decompression time, but also enforcing the notion that he can't just ban the little brother from playing with him because the older kid is a freaking grump.

So maybe if your DD is refusing to do something and wants you to do it, instead of saying, "do it now", it can be "No, I'm not going to do it for you. It's your job to [do the action]. If you don't want to do it now, it has to be [picked up, put away, taken out] before [the next activity, snack, dinner, homework]. It's your choice of when, but you won't be able to [next activity] until you do it." I think that's being supportive of her needs without letting her walk all over you. You're expanding the original fence/boundary a little bit, but you're keeping a boundary.

And when she talks back, just keep repeating, "I've already told you what needs to be done." And ignore the rest. You can't engage when she says, "But you do it for little brother!"

My kids will go to their room to "collect themselves", if I tell them to, but they did mindfulness in preschool on a regular basis and so they have that awareness.

I try to keep in mind that the teachers and other parents always comment about how "good" my DS is, so he's only acting out at home. Right now, I'm trying to give him space (within reason) to work through things on his own, but I do call him out on mean behavior to the younger child and/or disrespect to me. I will give one warning for unkind words/behavior and then it's up to his room until he's ready to be kind. He usually stays in his room for a couple of minutes, does some breathing or maybe reads a short book, and then comes back with an apology.

If going to her room is an escalation for your DD, then maybe use a stair step or a comfy chair that she'll sit with a book and a blanket to try and work through the emotion. I would think that you might need to do some coaching at first (other posters had good ideas about breathing and tapping fingers).

Anyway, just some things I'm trying. Maybe something will help your situation. Good luck!

Thank you! Yes, it sounds very similar. Sounds like she needs to decompress, and we should get a routine going to help her do that. It's just that our evenings are so hurried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 7 y/o is really difficult right now, as soon as he walks in the house from school. I do think he is holding it together so much that he needs that combustion time at home. Here are a couple of things I've done to try and restore the equilibrium....

I used to have him put his lunchbox on the kitchen counter as soon as he got his shoes/coat off. Lately, he responding really angrily so after a week of this awful back-and-forth, I've now changed my "rule" to the lunchbox needs to be on the counter before he gets a snack. This gives him a bit of time to stretch out on the floor and play, before he has to "do" anything.

I also have a younger son, and the bickering and tone from the older is just annoying. Younger DS just wants to be near and interact with big brother as soon as he gets home, but I have come to realize that big brother just needs a freaking break, so I try to keep the younger kid occupied in another room for 20 minutes or so...usually by this time the 7 y/o brings his lunchbox into the kitchen and is ready for a snack. I feel like this is giving the older kid some much needed decompression time, but also enforcing the notion that he can't just ban the little brother from playing with him because the older kid is a freaking grump.

So maybe if your DD is refusing to do something and wants you to do it, instead of saying, "do it now", it can be "No, I'm not going to do it for you. It's your job to [do the action]. If you don't want to do it now, it has to be [picked up, put away, taken out] before [the next activity, snack, dinner, homework]. It's your choice of when, but you won't be able to [next activity] until you do it." I think that's being supportive of her needs without letting her walk all over you. You're expanding the original fence/boundary a little bit, but you're keeping a boundary.

And when she talks back, just keep repeating, "I've already told you what needs to be done." And ignore the rest. You can't engage when she says, "But you do it for little brother!"

My kids will go to their room to "collect themselves", if I tell them to, but they did mindfulness in preschool on a regular basis and so they have that awareness.

I try to keep in mind that the teachers and other parents always comment about how "good" my DS is, so he's only acting out at home. Right now, I'm trying to give him space (within reason) to work through things on his own, but I do call him out on mean behavior to the younger child and/or disrespect to me. I will give one warning for unkind words/behavior and then it's up to his room until he's ready to be kind. He usually stays in his room for a couple of minutes, does some breathing or maybe reads a short book, and then comes back with an apology.

If going to her room is an escalation for your DD, then maybe use a stair step or a comfy chair that she'll sit with a book and a blanket to try and work through the emotion. I would think that you might need to do some coaching at first (other posters had good ideas about breathing and tapping fingers).

Anyway, just some things I'm trying. Maybe something will help your situation. Good luck!

Thank you! Yes, it sounds very similar. Sounds like she needs to decompress, and we should get a routine going to help her do that. It's just that our evenings are so hurried.

Same here. I've been meaning to look for a mindfullness app that would work for our kids. Something they could sit and follow on the iPad for two minutes right when they get home to help them unwind and relax. Like a cute guided breathing app with pretty visuals?

Ok do a search when I have more time, but wondering if anyone has recommendations?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like anxiety to me and she's acting out because of it. I'd talk to a child psych (just you, NOT her at the appt) To get ideas of how best to approach this without making it worse. Stay calm and try to see it as her hurting inside.