Chelsea Manning finally getting her surgery!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

So then it should be considered non elective for everyone else NOT in prison too.

Seriously!

[Anonymous]

I'm 100% on board with the surgery etc. but either its nonelective for everyone or it is necessary-it is not fair that people who are not in prison have to pay for this stuff while she gets treated on the taxpayers dime. If this is happening then i hope that this is a step in making transitioning covered by insurance and creating more rigour around the process.

Read Fixing Sex- its an unbiased medical anthropology work on intersex and trans issues using data from families, individuals and the medical community. It sheds light on the olympic sex issues as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

Actually, it is classified as elective surgery. I have nothing but sympathy for the trans community and support them. But having tax payers pay for this when Manning thought so little about the state secrets which she revealed and the ramifications to our society, is pretty difficult to comprehend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

Actually, it is elective. Elective surgery is any surgery that is planned in advance, rather than one done in an emergency situation. It can be one that is medically indicated (e.g., tonsillectomy), or one that is truly optional (e.g., cosmetic surgery). That an elective surgery is medically indicated, though, does not inherently mean that it is absolutely necessary to survive. A tonsillectomy might be medically indicated due to frequent bouts of strep throat, but that doesn't mean that the patient will die without a tonsillectomy.

Even if we take as a given that Manning's surgery is elective but medically indicated, people will still disagree about whether she should be granted the surgery because it is not necessary to survive, just as they might take issue with the decision to provide an inmate with a tonsillectomy. Where we think the line is on patients receiving elective but medically indicated surgery is a debate I think we should have, but I don't think you do the cause any good when you make factual misrepresentations.

[Anonymous]

I feel pretty badly that my correctable condition that prevents me from bearing children is considered elective. Yet...

[Anonymous]

I am not on board with Chelsea Manning receiving the surgery, and it has nothing to do with bigotry, so there's no need to use caps lock or excessive exclamation points.

Rates of attempted suicide are higher for trans people who've transitioned with reassignment surgery than those how haven't. Significantly higher. So the increased rate of suicide attempts isn't just in comparison to the general population, it's to non-medically transitioned trans people. These stats aren't some conservative, bigoted junk science- the findings are the same whether from neutral researchers or transgender/LGBT organizations.

Given Chelsea Manning's extensive mental health issues, it's unconscionable to provide a surgery that will not improve mental health and is likely to worsen it.

Many people are so concerned with being considered a good, progressive person that they focus on berating others with cries of "imagine how you'd feel!" rather than actually becoming informed about likely outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

Can you argue your view without name-calling or shallow appeals to pathos and patriotism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

Um, except she's not free. She's in prison, the very opposite of free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not on board with Chelsea Manning receiving the surgery, and it has nothing to do with bigotry, so there's no need to use caps lock or excessive exclamation points.

Rates of attempted suicide are higher for trans people who've transitioned with reassignment surgery than those how haven't. Significantly higher. So the increased rate of suicide attempts isn't just in comparison to the general population, it's to non-medically transitioned trans people. These stats aren't some conservative, bigoted junk science- the findings are the same whether from neutral researchers or transgender/LGBT organizations.

Given Chelsea Manning's extensive mental health issues, it's unconscionable to provide a surgery that will not improve mental health and is likely to worsen it.

Many people are so concerned with being considered a good, progressive person that they focus on berating others with cries of "imagine how you'd feel!" rather than actually becoming informed about likely outcomes.

Haven't they done more digging into the suicides and the attempted suicides and found that they really are related to non-support from family and friends and the resulting isolation than any issue with the surgery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

How do you know he isn't wrongly imprisoned in the wrong mind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not on board with Chelsea Manning receiving the surgery, and it has nothing to do with bigotry, so there's no need to use caps lock or excessive exclamation points.

Rates of attempted suicide are higher for trans people who've transitioned with reassignment surgery than those how haven't. Significantly higher. So the increased rate of suicide attempts isn't just in comparison to the general population, it's to non-medically transitioned trans people. These stats aren't some conservative, bigoted junk science- the findings are the same whether from neutral researchers or transgender/LGBT organizations.

Given Chelsea Manning's extensive mental health issues, it's unconscionable to provide a surgery that will not improve mental health and is likely to worsen it.

Many people are so concerned with being considered a good, progressive person that they focus on berating others with cries of "imagine how you'd feel!" rather than actually becoming informed about likely outcomes.

Haven't they done more digging into the suicides and the attempted suicides and found that they really are related to non-support from family and friends and the resulting isolation than any issue with the surgery?

Rejection by family certainly elevates the risk of attempted suicide, but it isn't the sole or even the highest contributing factor. Existence of other mental illness, homelessness, and having suffered violence are all factors that correlate with a higher rate of attempted suicide than rejection by family. There's also the realization that what you've built up in your mind as being the solution to all your anguish (surgery) isn't the fix you thought it would be, and the severe devastation that follows that.

Manning blames gender identity issues as the root cause of every negative event in his life and as the driving force behind every negative thing he's done. (See the "My Problem" email for this in his own words.) Family issues (alcoholic parents, abusive father, bullying in school because he's gay, potential fetal alcohol syndrome), career issues, military issues, violence issues (he attempted to stab his stepmother at eighteen and physically attacked a female supervisor in the Army), feelings of disassociation from reality, and all of his pain and confusion- all caused by gender identity, in his mind/words. Further, Chelsea states that the reason behind his suicide attempt earlier this year was that the Army wouldn't provide transition surgery. Chelsea's team, including his lawyer, supports this line of thinking. This simply isn't realistic thinking. It's dangerous thinking.

I do believe transition surgery is beneficial for some trans-identified people. But because other mental illnesses are so often comorbid, and those with other mental illnesses are show such little psychological improvement from SRS, it doesn't seem appropriate here. Chelsea's obsessive focus on reassignment surgery and longer hair as a panacea is troubling. When the surgery's done and Chelsea discovers it doesn't solve his many psychological issues, that his singular focus for so many years isn't a cure-all, what will be the outcome? Unfortunately, the outlook isn't good.

I know as of 2014, it was alleged that the Army wasn't providing adequate or consistent counseling for Manning. Hopefully that is no longer true, because what he needs most is intensive, attentive, thoughtful psychiatric care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you people??!? Are all of you bigots?

First of all. ITS NOT ELECTIVE, OK????

Imagine how you'd feel if you were wrongly imprisoned in the wrong body?? Then you'd feel different about this. And this is supposed to be the land of the free!

Actually, it is elective. Elective surgery is any surgery that is planned in advance, rather than one done in an emergency situation. It can be one that is medically indicated (e.g., tonsillectomy), or one that is truly optional (e.g., cosmetic surgery). That an elective surgery is medically indicated, though, does not inherently mean that it is absolutely necessary to survive. A tonsillectomy might be medically indicated due to frequent bouts of strep throat, but that doesn't mean that the patient will die without a tonsillectomy.

Even if we take as a given that Manning's surgery is elective but medically indicated, people will still disagree about whether she should be granted the surgery because it is not necessary to survive, just as they might take issue with the decision to provide an inmate with a tonsillectomy. Where we think the line is on patients receiving elective but medically indicated surgery is a debate I think we should have, but I don't think you do the cause any good when you make factual misrepresentations.

Thank you for this clear and intelligent response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Then you pay for it, this MAN is a criminal, you pay for it.

That is extremely offensive!

You are not a progressive. Rather, just another deplorable bigot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then you pay for it, this MAN is a criminal, you pay for it.

That is extremely offensive!

You are not a progressive. Rather, just another deplorable bigot!

Not the PP you quoted, but what's deplorable and offensive about it?

Manning is a criminal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She's finally getting what she really deserves: to live free as the person she truly is. Such refreshing news!

In jail. Give me a break. Let's see her do the truly altruistic and donate her surgery to someone that has not committed a crime.