Having a hard time with 4yo and newborn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just had a baby 3 weeks ago and have a 4 year old as well. During the year ODD is in school, but apparently I didn't time my pregnancy right (kidding) since she is out of school and our whole routine is out of whack with me being on maternity leave. She isn't in camp (that's a whole separate story - she HATES camp) but does have activities/classes 3 days a week, and our nanny is great about taking her to the park, meeting up with other kids, etc. The problem is that now that I am in the picture, ODD only wants to be with me 24/7 and she FREAKS when I need to be with the baby and our nanny has to be the one to take her out. Like stage 5 meltdowns we haven't had in nearly a year. Our house is small and pretty open, so there is no separation for me and the baby to be in one part of the house and DD to be in another without her actively knowing we're there. When I take the baby into my room and close the door - DD will literally bang on the door screaming and crying. And it pains me to watch our nanny drag ODD out of the house screaming and crying to go to an activity because she wants to stay with me (or for me to take her).

What has resulted is me being with DD 80% of the day and the nanny being with YDD. It works, but I feel so bad that I am not getting to spend enough quality time with the baby, and I am also SOO exhausted from being up with the baby at night. For better or worse, I can't BF because of a medication I have to take so YDD is on formula which makes things easier logistically.

Has anyone death with something like this before? How should I handle, or do we just deal through the summer until ODD is back in school?

What is it that you need to do with the baby that you need to go in the room and close the door? You don't get quality time with the baby alone - this is the reality when you have more than one kid.

She's four - you need to involve her with the baby. You can see what alienating her is doing, right?

Oh please. There is a nanny there. Of course she can have some quality time with her baby alone.

I agree with a PP, btw: allow more TV during this chaotic time.

As someone stated, this is a really bad time for sibling rivalry. Her daughter doesn't want to spend time with the damn nanny - she wants to spend time with her mom. Going in the room closing the door results in her daughter feeling shitty and replaced - epic meltdown ensues. There is no reason to go into the room and close the door - the BABY has no idea that she is getting "quality time". She just knows she is close to mommy. They can do that with the door open and the 4 year old participating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your 4 year old is running the household. I'm surprised your nanny hasn't spoken up about the situation.

Chart your daughters schedule. When she transitions well she gets a sticker. She gets a prize at the end of the week, two weeks, whatever time period is appropriate. Make sure something on the schedule is just for the two of you and make sure there is something she can do easily.

This is the worst age spread for sibling rivalry, her behavior is normal but needs to be dealt with firmly.

This. 4 year old is old enough to be taught she can't get all she wants 100% of the time. Use rewards and timeouts. She does stage 5 tantrums because they work so well for her in your household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the above poster. You still have bonding time with the newborn and your older daughter will remember this time. It is important that you are paying attention to her feelings. I would try and have her help you with the baby so she feels part of the process. Bringing you a diaper, helping to feed the baby a bottle, ect. And so she knows you do have to share your time, explain to her that while you are playing with her now and the nanny is with the baby, the next activity will be with the nanny and you will be with the baby. Maybe plan out a schedule with her so she knows when she will be with the nanny, when she will be with you, and when it is all together time. Good luck

+1. DCs also have 4 years difference, so older child was aware of new child. So you cannot really close the door and expect older to feel good about it. She is anxious and that only increases her anxiety about the change.

Include the older one in all activities, help with diapers, singing to baby, talking to baby, bath time (gently pouring water on legs or stomach is something a 4 year old can manager), offer she joins you and baby for naps (after 1-2 times she'll probably opt out anyway). Tell her how lucky little baby is to have such a wonderful sister, and how lucky and happy YOU are hat she's here to help and how proud you are of her, and tell her this several times a day.go to park, the four of you, so nanny can walk around with baby in stroller while you spend time with older dd. Or Subscribe to child and me classes with older dd, something close to home and not too long, but that she may enjoy - once you are able to (3 weeks is quite early).

I don't agree with punishment and timeout unless she actively hurts baby. This is difficult change for her and she needs more attention from you, so don't see how punishing her for her feelings will go well on the long run.

[Anonymous]

OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

This is great advice. You can't close the door and not expect your 4 year old to feel some type of way. You have to include her. You won't be able to get the same one on one time you got with your first. It just doesn't work that way.

[Anonymous]

I would just spend time all the four of you, then... it's a good suggestion to involve her in caring for the baby, and for her to gradually get acclimated to the presence of the baby and seeing you with her.

Do you have some sibling books? Reading to her about her role in relation to the baby might help.

This is decent advice, too:

http://www.janetlansbury.com/2013/04/helping-kids-adjust-to-life-with-the-new-baby/

[Birdmom5]

Congratulations on the new baby. Our oldest had a hard time also Have you let your ODD "help" you with the baby, like getting diapers and even helping the nanny get a bottle? It helped us a lot for our oldest to not feel excluded. Maybe also make special mommy only time when your YDD is sleeping! Hang in there it gets better and easier!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

This is great advice. You can't close the door and not expect your 4 year old to feel some type of way. You have to include her. You won't be able to get the same one on one time you got with your first. It just doesn't work that way.

I am very puzzled by this comment. Even if there is an only child in the house, the parents should be able to close the door and have some adult time. You don't have to include a 4 y.o. But it precisely this type of thinking that creates weird dynamics when the 4 yo "FREAKS" (to quote the OP).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

This is great advice. You can't close the door and not expect your 4 year old to feel some type of way. You have to include her. You won't be able to get the same one on one time you got with your first. It just doesn't work that way.

I am very puzzled by this comment. Even if there is an only child in the house, the parents should be able to close the door and have some adult time. You don't have to include a 4 y.o. But it precisely this type of thinking that creates weird dynamics when the 4 yo "FREAKS" (to quote the OP).

It's not adult time with an only child in the house. You are talking apples and oranges. It is this kid's mother closing the door to spend time with a brand new baby. You really can't see how that is potentially confusing and creates conflicting emotions for a 4 year old? It's normal to have a time of transition with a new sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

This is great advice. You can't close the door and not expect your 4 year old to feel some type of way. You have to include her. You won't be able to get the same one on one time you got with your first. It just doesn't work that way.

I am very puzzled by this comment. Even if there is an only child in the house, the parents should be able to close the door and have some adult time. You don't have to include a 4 y.o. But it precisely this type of thinking that creates weird dynamics when the 4 yo "FREAKS" (to quote the OP).

This is not the same. I am the person you are quoting, I have two children, and will absolutely close the door and send them to their room so that we can all relax.

Closing the door so that she can have alone time with her new baby is just going to create an unreal amount of resentment in her 4 year old. It's actually REALLY unnecessary to do. OP has handled this transition to two kids badly (sorry, OP, I am not trying to pile on) wrt her 4 year old and is asking for help. She has to include the 4 year old in this. The baby who she wants to be with alone so badly isn't actually going to remember this. The 4 year old will absolutely remember that her mom didn't want to be bothered with her when the new baby came.

Whether or not it is the "proper" reaction, or whether your child would behave this way is irrelevant. This is what OP is dealing with right now and it is not uncommon. The easy answer is to pull back on the alone time with baby and make sure to include the 4 year old. Some of this behavior is to make sure she still matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

This is great advice. You can't close the door and not expect your 4 year old to feel some type of way. You have to include her. You won't be able to get the same one on one time you got with your first. It just doesn't work that way.

I am very puzzled by this comment. Even if there is an only child in the house, the parents should be able to close the door and have some adult time. You don't have to include a 4 y.o. But it precisely this type of thinking that creates weird dynamics when the 4 yo "FREAKS" (to quote the OP).

This is not the same. I am the person you are quoting, I have two children, and will absolutely close the door and send them to their room so that we can all relax.

Closing the door so that she can have alone time with her new baby is just going to create an unreal amount of resentment in her 4 year old. It's actually REALLY unnecessary to do. OP has handled this transition to two kids badly (sorry, OP, I am not trying to pile on) wrt her 4 year old and is asking for help. She has to include the 4 year old in this. The baby who she wants to be with alone so badly isn't actually going to remember this. The 4 year old will absolutely remember that her mom didn't want to be bothered with her when the new baby came.

Whether or not it is the "proper" reaction, or whether your child would behave this way is irrelevant. This is what OP is dealing with right now and it is not uncommon. The easy answer is to pull back on the alone time with baby and make sure to include the 4 year old. Some of this behavior is to make sure she still matters.

OP stated that she already spends 80% of the time with the older DD and the baby is unloaded on the nanny. What do you suggest exactly? To hand over the baby for 99% of the time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sorry you're getting some crappy replies.

I had a just turned 4 year old and a newborn a few years ago and I had a nanny.

For the rest of the summer, I would focus on communicating to your older child what the plan is every day. Talk her through exactly what is going to happen when. Also, play up the idea that you and she are a team and together, you're going to help take care of baby and work together to have an awesome day. I would tell my older one that he and I were in charge together. My older one LOVED this. He felt more involved that way. "Sally, I need you to be part of my team to help us take care of baby. Here's the plan. This morning Nanny is going to take you to your music class. Baby and I are going to meet you at X playground after your class is over and you can help me play with baby. Because we're a team, right? Then we're all going to come home and have lunch together. After lunch, you'll get to watch a movie with Nanny while mommy and Baby take a nap. Do you want to watch your movie at 1 or 1:30?" Give the older kid some choices where you are ok with both choices. Write it out on a poster board if you have to. I'm also personally not above a little bribery. "Sally, if you are a helpful part of our team today and stick to our plan, you, Nanny, Baby, and I can enjoy some popsicles after the movie in the back yard together." Or whatever she's into. The older kid feels out of control. She just needs to get her bearings.

I would also do more things with all four of you (nanny, baby, you, and older kid). You can be with the baby AND be with the older kid. It doesn't have to be so one-on-one. You can be with both kids and the nanny is an extra pair of hands.

I also did a class alone with my older kid at the end of maternity leave so he would feel like he was getting some one-on-one time.

Good luck.

This is great advice. You can't close the door and not expect your 4 year old to feel some type of way. You have to include her. You won't be able to get the same one on one time you got with your first. It just doesn't work that way.

I am very puzzled by this comment. Even if there is an only child in the house, the parents should be able to close the door and have some adult time. You don't have to include a 4 y.o. But it precisely this type of thinking that creates weird dynamics when the 4 yo "FREAKS" (to quote the OP).

This is not the same. I am the person you are quoting, I have two children, and will absolutely close the door and send them to their room so that we can all relax.

Closing the door so that she can have alone time with her new baby is just going to create an unreal amount of resentment in her 4 year old. It's actually REALLY unnecessary to do. OP has handled this transition to two kids badly (sorry, OP, I am not trying to pile on) wrt her 4 year old and is asking for help. She has to include the 4 year old in this. The baby who she wants to be with alone so badly isn't actually going to remember this. The 4 year old will absolutely remember that her mom didn't want to be bothered with her when the new baby came.

Whether or not it is the "proper" reaction, or whether your child would behave this way is irrelevant. This is what OP is dealing with right now and it is not uncommon. The easy answer is to pull back on the alone time with baby and make sure to include the 4 year old. Some of this behavior is to make sure she still matters.

OP stated that she already spends 80% of the time with the older DD and the baby is unloaded on the nanny. What do you suggest exactly? To hand over the baby for 99% of the time?

The PPs had some great suggestions on how to involve her. Her reactions are typical of a jealous sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wear the baby and go to the park with them. Baby will benefit too from being worn.

Way too hot for that, IMO.

OP, you've gotten some good advice. My oldest will be five this Fall and we have a newborn (and a middle, who will soon be three). I think you need a mix of approaches: a new routine, which you discuss with her in advance and often; regular mommy-ODD time; extra treats; patience. Four is a tough age anyway, and this transition is a big one, particularly when she's out of her regular routine. My eldest is having some trouble with the new addition, too, but I think it would be MUCH worse if she weren't keeping with her preschool routine (for which I am endlessly grateful).

You absolutely deserve some one on one time with your newborn. Having multiple children doesn't mean the youngest always gets the shaft. You have a nanny, and your ODD will be well-cared for. If you can set aside some time each day or a few days a week for her, that will likely help a lot. I also think talking about what will happen each day is HUGE at this age. Mr. Rogers has an episode about it and the importance of kids liking to know what will happen (come to think of it, the theme may also be reprised on Daniel Tiger, "when we do something new, let's talk about what we'll do"). Both my kids, but especially the older one, do much better when we tell them in advance what will happen, especially when it's a change in routine.

Good luck and hang in there! This too shall pass.