My wife's mean, mean mother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - What would you do if your MIL struck your wife? She is verbally assaulting her right in front of you.

Would you let your MIL treat your daughter this way?

This is kind of silly. First of all, the MIL is not physically assaulting the wife. Secondly, there are different ways of standing up to verbal abuse. Sometimes you can make the situation worse with direct confrontation.

[Anonymous]

Here we go again with the "cut the toxic ties" poster!

OP, you can't "help" your wife to grow up and control her relationship. She needs to do this herself. Your wife is not your daughter; you are not in charge of her. You can speak with her about this and suggest counseling, but it really shouldn't go beyond that.

[Anonymous]

You sound like my DH (I was your wife). Just support her, she'll have to get hurt bad enough to figure it out on her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I should add that my MIL showers our DS with attention and funds an expensive private education for him, which makes my wife say "see, my mother is not so bad" despite the verbal and emotional abuse (which seems to be targeted exclusively at my wife and no one else in MIL's life . . . for reasons I don't understand).

I'd rather send my child to public school than put up with my ILs abusing my spouse. Soon MIL will be trying to buy your child's loyalty with her expensive gifts.

This. No way would I accept a pay-off for compliance. Your son sees everything that your MIL is doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, practice saying things like this:
"Stop talking to my wife like that."
"If you can't speak respectfully to my wife, I'll ask you to leave."
"It's not okay for you to speak that way to my wife."

OP, I think in these situations, it's okay for you to interfere. It's your house and you have say in what's tolerated in it and what's not. If your MIL's behavior is unacceptable to you, then don't allow it in your house. Meet her in public places. Let her take her grandson to the park. But as soon as she starts belittling your wife, say that you're sorry to see that she's not up for a pleasant visit today, and that we'll try again next time. Then hand her her things and show her the door. My MIL infantilizes my husband, who is normally stands up for himself but doesn't when it comes to his mother, and I had to tell her that I can't allow my children to see their father treated like an imbecile - I phrased it a bit more gently than that, but she actually seemed to get how that would undermine his authority and relationship with his children.

[Anonymous]

I agree with those who say it is your place to step up.

The normal advice is to have each person in a marriage deal with their own family of origin.

your wife - through years of accepting this abuse - is simply not in a place where she can deal with it, and it happens in front of you and in front of your child.

And given the age of the mother and the years of abuse, I think the only way she will hear something is if it comes from you. And in fact she may have more respect for you as the man and head of the household.

Time for you to tell her - repeatedly if need be - that it's time to cut it out.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all these responses. My wife has actually been seeing a therapist for about four years who thinks MIL is a narcissist and has suggested to my wife that she needs to cut her mom off as toxic (at least for a few months, to reset the relationship). My wife has resisted this, saying "she's my only mom and she's not going to be around forever" or "I don't want to short-change DS [with the education funding]". So although she has sought help, she has not implemented what the therapist has suggested. As for me, I have mostly stayed out of it, and MIL seems to restraint herself in front of me (a few times over the years when she has said things involving me I have called her on it). I agree with the poster that said my wife is a grown adult; perhaps all I can and should do is offer my continued support (it's just frustrating that nothing changes after so many years and it really seems to be a big sapper of my wife's happiness)

[Anonymous]

Perhaps a new therapist? It took me three therapists to implement the suggestion to leave my marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all these responses. My wife has actually been seeing a therapist for about four years who thinks MIL is a narcissist and has suggested to my wife that she needs to cut her mom off as toxic (at least for a few months, to reset the relationship). My wife has resisted this, saying "she's my only mom and she's not going to be around forever" or "I don't want to short-change DS [with the education funding]". So although she has sought help, she has not implemented what the therapist has suggested. As for me, I have mostly stayed out of it, and MIL seems to restraint herself in front of me (a few times over the years when she has said things involving me I have called her on it). I agree with the poster that said my wife is a grown adult; perhaps all I can and should do is offer my continued support (it's just frustrating that nothing changes after so many years and it really seems to be a big sapper of my wife's happiness)

What about the suggestion that you directly tell your MIL to knock it off, that doesn't fly in your house? When she starts up with the nonsense, tell her you're disappointed that the visit isn't going well and you look forward to trying again next time.

[Anonymous]

The best thing my DH did for me with my toxic mother is teach me to have a sense of humor about the situation. He didn't belittle her hurtful effects or not allow me to cry when I needed to. But he allowed me to see how genuinely funny some of the crap she pulled was and I adopted more of a "Wait til you hear this one!" attitude. He always treated her as a joke when she started up if he were in the room and it took away her power.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all these. I had never considered the fact that as DS grows up MIL may try to buy his affections further. It does make sense that she would try it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I should add that my MIL showers our DS with attention and funds an expensive private education for him, which makes my wife say "see, my mother is not so bad" despite the verbal and emotional abuse (which seems to be targeted exclusively at my wife and no one else in MIL's life . . . for reasons I don't understand).

[b]I'd rather send my child to public school than put up with my ILs abusing my spouse. Soon MIL will be trying to buy your child's loyalty with her expensive gifts.

[/b]
+1. I don't put up with my ILs giving crap to my DH and they're not paying for anything for us! Your child's education is not worth your partner's dignity and self-resepct. Would she speak to a therapist?

OP, can you see that probably your MIL thinks she can treat your wife this way because MIL is paying for your child's education? Grandma is buying herself the "right" to "speak her mind." I would bet that if MIL were asked by some outside observer, "Why do you criticized Daughter so much? She seems together and successful and nice," your MIL would reply that she is "just being frank and honest" and "just helping Daughter by 'telling it like it is.'" There are so many people like this--who believe in their personal versions of reality that they are never harsh or wrong, they are only honest and forthright and frank, and that is of course good and right and healthy for the person hearing their constant "honesty."

This cannot be changed, not this late in the game, on MIL's side. But your wife CAN learn to stop wanting to please her mother. Therapy, extensive and serious, for your wife. And I would truly cut the financial ties first (because grandma will hold that over all three of you, forever, and it yokes your family to her) and then second, cut most ties with grandma. I agree with the person above that MIL is going to start buying off your child with more than an education, eventually.

Worst of all: Do you really want your child to grow up watching grandma being so profoundly disrespectful of his mother? That teaches your son that YOU tolerate MIL treating your wife this way, and over time, the message your son will take away for his adulthood is that it is normal for one parent to let the other one be disrespected like this. (And right now, in your household, it is indeed normal because it's how you all live day to day without attempting to alter it.) And your son will lose respect, maybe even some affection, for his mother if he is hearing her berated by grandma. Your son is little now. Maybe he doesn't hear grandma's treatment of mom, but believe me - he will pick up on it more and more as he gets older, through little comments grandma will make to him.

Sounds like MIL lives geographically close to you. Too bad. But she is truly toxic and your wife needs therapy staring now. Would she do it, OP? Will you encourage her to do it, even push her, so that son doesn't grow up bought off by grandma and you don't all spend years enduring MIL's "I'm just telling the truth and being honest" crap? Stop it now, for your son. No education is worth letting him grow up seeing his mother disrespected and seeing his mother with no backbone to stand up to MIL.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all these responses. My wife has actually been seeing a therapist for about four years who thinks MIL is a narcissist and has suggested to my wife that she needs to cut her mom off as toxic (at least for a few months, to reset the relationship). My wife has resisted this, saying "she's my only mom and she's not going to be around forever" or "I don't want to short-change DS [with the education funding]". So although she has sought help, she has not implemented what the therapist has suggested. As for me, I have mostly stayed out of it, and MIL seems to restraint herself in front of me (a few times over the years when she has said things involving me I have called her on it). I agree with the poster that said my wife is a grown adult; perhaps all I can and should do is offer my continued support (it's just frustrating that nothing changes after so many years and it really seems to be a big sapper of my wife's happiness)

This is a smart thing to do, and you should continue staying out of it.

[Anonymous]

OP - Both my MIL and BIL are raging narcissists and it's been tough over the years to watch how poorly they treat my DH. To DH's credit, he wants very little to do with either of them now, but it took a while to get to this place. The final straw came after DH realized how their actions were affecting our DC. I don't think you, as the spouse, can tell your wife to cut off ties with her family. That is her decision because it's her mother. But you can -- and should -- take steps to protect your family by limiting time with the MIL, or as PP said, only meeting up in public, etc. Does your wife realize the effects your MIL's behavior is having/will have on your DS? Even if your MIL treats DS fine right now, DS is seeing how his grandma treats his mother and he's learning, implicitly, that it's ok to treat people that way. And it's likely only a matter of time before MIL starts treating DS the same way.

[Anonymous]

OP, have you thought about going with your wife to the therapist? Could help show your support.
Have you expressed your thoughts about your son's education--does your wife think that you will be mad if DS doesn't go to this private school? Not just do you think she would think that or not, but have the two of you had a conversation about it? Whose idea was it to send DS to the school in the first place? Did you ask MIL for the money or did she offer it up?
I'm asking a lot of questions about the school because it seems from your comments that your wife is hung up on it.
It's great that she's a high-achieving professional, but I think part of the reason for it is that she craves the attention from her mother, and still holds out hope that someday her mom might approve of her. This is the hardest thing to let go of when you've sought approval from somebody your whole life--you'll never be good enough in their eyes (even if you are a great, accomplished person in real life).

It shouldn't matter how much attention MIL shows DS. If she is narcissistic, it would be hard to believe she has no ulterior motives for the affection she shows. Or maybe she hates her daughter because she's not a man?

I agree with the PPs, you need to stand up for your wife if you can't do it for her. But you should tell her this ahead of time, so she doesn't try to stop you. She needs to let you do it, because if she tries to stop you, MIL will see this and know that your wife is "on her side" (AKA she's successfully brainwashed her).