Friendships are hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is a revelation to you why? All people have flaws and all close social relationships involve some degree of conflict.

Sorry if it sounded that way, it wasn't a revelation. It's something I've been conscious of to some degree or another since I was a kid, and most of the time you don't ever think about it, but since I actually saw a close friend get jealous of my BF proposing to me and some other things, it is obviously just something that was percolating.

[Anonymous]

Dammit. OP here, I messed up the quote tags in both attempts there!

[Anonymous]

I was talking with DH tonight about my embarrassment at inadvertently revealing my insecurities to a new friend, and he told me that's part of who I am and I don't need to apologize for that. I am also a person who loves my friends, warts and all. I think I'm not grasping OP's main point, though.

Haha my main point was just venting I understand what you're saying too.

At the end of the day you can't fully and 100% trust anybody in the deepest sense. And that's OK. That's how it is. Kind of sucks. But this is true even in the very best of friendships. Just enjoy all the wonderful moments and accept the frustrations. I agree, OP. It's disappointing. But it's also fine and in a way this let's you realize that you can be strong for yourself and learn to trust yourself. I appreciate your post OP. I feel that way sometimes too.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

It's ok to sometimes be jealous of your friends. Life isn't always fair and sometimes your friends' lives are going well when yours isn't. It's ok to be insecure sometimes. If you can't let your friends know when you're feeling insecure, they're not real friends. (frankly, if you couldn't dream of telling a friend you were jealous, that might not be a real friendship either.) I think real friends are people who can see you at your worst and know your flaws and still like you.

A true friend can be happy for your success, while at the same time being sad that others all seem to be succeeding when they're not. Mature people are capable of holding two seemingly conflicted thoughts at once.

If you really think so little of your friends as you seem to, they may be acquaintances who don't really like you all that much. Ask yourself if you're being a good friend too, instead of just expecting people to be good friends to you. It's a two-way street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day you can't fully and 100% trust anybody in the deepest sense. And that's OK. That's how it is. Kind of sucks. But this is true even in the very best of friendships. Just enjoy all the wonderful moments and accept the frustrations. I agree, OP. It's disappointing. But it's also fine and in a way this let's you realize that you can be strong for yourself and learn to trust yourself. I appreciate your post OP. I feel that way sometimes too.

It smells like sockpuppet in here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds awfully melodramatic to me. If you're constantly struggling in your friendships, the issue may be you more than them.

Melodramatic? Constantly struggling? Ok then, if you think adult friendships aren't complex then you go ahead with that. It just means that yours are superficial and lack the extent of emotional intimacy that mine do.

Also, this is an undercurrent that rarely surfaces. 90% of the time its fun, laughter, good times, and always positively helping each other out. But if you think that friendships don't require work and that any mention of the difficulties even the best of friendships involve constitutes "melodrama", then I can't help you.

NP here. One, I don't think that PP was asking for your help. Two, no, thinking the OP was melodramatic does not mean someone has superficial relationships.

Competitive friendships with an undercurrent of jealousy aren't the norm in adults. Yes, they happen, but it's not because your friendships are deeper than ours. It's the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day you can't fully and 100% trust anybody in the deepest sense. And that's OK. That's how it is. Kind of sucks. But this is true even in the very best of friendships. Just enjoy all the wonderful moments and accept the frustrations. I agree, OP. It's disappointing. But it's also fine and in a way this let's you realize that you can be strong for yourself and learn to trust yourself. I appreciate your post OP. I feel that way sometimes too.

It smells like sockpuppet in here.

Uh? I'm the OP, not the whoever you're quoting. Thanks for your participation though.

It's ok to sometimes be jealous of your friends. Life isn't always fair and sometimes your friends' lives are going well when yours isn't. It's ok to be insecure sometimes. If you can't let your friends know when you're feeling insecure, they're not real friends. (frankly, if you couldn't dream of telling a friend you were jealous, that might not be a real friendship either.) I think real friends are people who can see you at your worst and know your flaws and still like you.

A true friend can be happy for your success, while at the same time being sad that others all seem to be succeeding when they're not. Mature people are capable of holding two seemingly conflicted thoughts at once.

If you really think so little of your friends as you seem to, they may be acquaintances who don't really like you all that much. Ask yourself if you're being a good friend too, instead of just expecting people to be good friends to you. It's a two-way street.

I'm beginning to see that what I said in the OP is being blown out of proportion a little. I think very highly of my friends and said that in my OP, and I've also said that my friends accept me for who I am, as I accept them for who they are. We wouldn't be friends if our friendship wasn't a positive factor in our lives. The point I'm saying though is that even a positive social relationship has the potential to turn toxic because envy is a natural human trait, and to say that it's absent from happy relationships is blind and wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day you can't fully and 100% trust anybody in the deepest sense. And that's OK. That's how it is. Kind of sucks. But this is true even in the very best of friendships. Just enjoy all the wonderful moments and accept the frustrations. I agree, OP. It's disappointing. But it's also fine and in a way this let's you realize that you can be strong for yourself and learn to trust yourself. I appreciate your post OP. I feel that way sometimes too.

It smells like sockpuppet in here.

Uh? I'm the OP, not the whoever you're quoting. Thanks for your participation though.

It's ok to sometimes be jealous of your friends. Life isn't always fair and sometimes your friends' lives are going well when yours isn't. It's ok to be insecure sometimes. If you can't let your friends know when you're feeling insecure, they're not real friends. (frankly, if you couldn't dream of telling a friend you were jealous, that might not be a real friendship either.) I think real friends are people who can see you at your worst and know your flaws and still like you.

A true friend can be happy for your success, while at the same time being sad that others all seem to be succeeding when they're not. Mature people are capable of holding two seemingly conflicted thoughts at once.

If you really think so little of your friends as you seem to, they may be acquaintances who don't really like you all that much. Ask yourself if you're being a good friend too, instead of just expecting people to be good friends to you. It's a two-way street.

I'm beginning to see that what I said in the OP is being blown out of proportion a little. I think very highly of my friends and said that in my OP, and I've also said that my friends accept me for who I am, as I accept them for who they are. We wouldn't be friends if our friendship wasn't a positive factor in our lives. The point I'm saying though is that even a positive social relationship has the potential to turn toxic because envy is a natural human trait, and to say that it's absent from happy relationships is blind and wrong.

No. You said it's "constantly a game" and "exhausting" and that your friends "lack sufficient self love to stop themselves from comparing themselves to you, still have insecurities no matter how balanced and confident and mature they seem, still capable of secretly getting jealous of you. No one wants to admit it but sometimes it is your best friend who hates to see you succeed far beyond their own success" (meaning, you see them as insecure and jealous). This is not a healthy adult friendship even if you manage to pretend that it is most of the time.

Healthy close friendships require time and attention, but not protecting yourself in the manner you describe. I am vulnerable with my best friends and I can be myself. Schadenfreude and jealous comparison are not for true friends.

[Anonymous]

The way OP has expressed herself in her post, she does sound pompous and a bit smug, describing others as chronically jealous of her while she herself is well-adjusted, successful, and serene. She comes off as tiresome, though that may just be the post misrepresenting her. Who knows.

That said, she is correct that some friendships - adult or otherwise - just sadly are fraught with jealousy and tension. I have a friend who is not where she wants to be in her life and complains bitterly and openly about what her friends have that she doesn't. She is wracked with envy and it's sad to see. One of her friends just married a doctor and she's so angry and jealous her face twists when she talks about it.

Another good friend of mine recently exited a long and difficult relationship and had plenty of single gf's around to prop her up and commiserate with her - until she suddenly fell madly in love again and started a great new relationship. Those "friends" all got pissed and disappeared on her.

Misery loves company - it's a fact, and I think it's especially true among women who are struggling to accept the truly painful, life-altering holes in their lives. I can't speak for professional jealousy since I'm not a hard charger at work, nor do I tend to be friends with such people, but I can imagine things can get pretty toxic there too. Life is hard; friendships are hard, and all the more so when there are big inequalities. It's why people grow apart and why "birds of a feather stick together."

[Anonymous]

OP here. While 23:04 has a point to a certain degree and so does 23:09, 23:09's misunderstanding of me has convinced me that I probably should not have posted this on DCUM. I'll be removing myself from this thread and leave you to continue drawing whatever conclusions you want about me. Good night everyone. This will be the last post from me here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it make a difference that I am successful in a competitive field, and many of my closest friends are either in the same field or similar fields? I really don't think my experiences of envy, insecurity, and competition - going hand-in-hand with friendship, love, laughter, and support - is as unusual and weird as some of you are making it out to be. I think my experiences are actually pretty standard.

or maybe they can't stand how full of yourself you are.

o hai Internet troll! I was waiting to see when the angry personal attacks would come out.

No, OP, I am an NP and truly think you come off as full of yourself.

That's why I closed my FB account years ago--too many people like you that think we are all envying your life.

Some self-examination may be in order.

I am fortunate to have a wonderful group of women around me who I trust 100%. We have been through thick and thin together, for the last 20 years. I actually met two of them in middle school. But, we leave our egos out of our relationships.

You, OP, are full of ego. Go ahead, call me a troll. But re-read it and you will see. Or ask a neutral party to read your post. Ego, ego, ego.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just felt a little depressed and tired today as I thought about it. I'm social, outgoing and emotionally healthy (enough), as are many of my friends. But over the course of time you start to realize that no matter how much love exists between you and your friends, and how positive and drama free your relationship is, and how much effort you put into the friendship, some things never change.

Your friend is still a flawed human being no matter how awesome they are. Still lack sufficient self love to stop themselves from comparing themselves to you, still have insecurities no matter how balanced and confident and mature they seem, still capable of secretly getting jealous of you. No one wants to admit it but sometimes it is your best friend who hates to see you succeed far beyond their own success.

And friends are complex humans. They have issues from childhood to deal with, romantic problems, and other social or professional issues that all influence their attitude towards you.

It's condyantly a game. You can trust your close friends but you can't trust them with EVERY vulnerability in your life can you? You have to protect yourself and maintain some semblance of strength to keep their respect even as you show vulnerability. It's complicated and often exhausting.

I have to strongly disagree w/the two bolded statements OP. I have a best friend who I have had in my life since high school, we are both now in our mid-40's and have been through everything under the sun together. You name it. Nothing would make me more happier in life than for her to have all the happiness that I personally think she deserves. I would never EVER in a trillion years be envious over anything that she would ever have over me...In fact, the opposite. I want only the best for her and I am sure she feels exactly the same way.

I also have to disagree that friendships are complicated as well as exhausting. Perhaps in high school they were, but now as an adult I find them quite beneficial to my life in many ways. I do not feel like maintaining my friendships takes "work" and effort like maintaining a healthy marriage does.

[Anonymous]

I see a lot of denial in this thread. Saw it coming, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of denial in this thread. Saw it coming, however.

+1

“It is in the character of very few men to honor without envy a friend who has prospered.” - Aeschylus

There have been books written about this phenomenon, even among close, "true" friendships. The adamant denial in this thread makes me wonder if subconsciously some of the posters here have been guilty of this kind of behavior themselves, but won't admit it to themselves (because refusing to be honest when you're anonymous online suggests you wouldn't be honest with your own thoughts).

It's happened to me, it's happened to people in my family, it's happened to DH. Friends can get envious. Friends can get insecure. And we do it too. I know I've certainly been envious of my friends, I just haven't acted on that envy and sabotaged anyone. Similarly, my friends haven't actively tried to ruin my life out of envy. But do they feel the envy? YES. And yet I know we have real friendships. Friendships where I've been rushed to the ER, friendships which have seen me through heartbreaks and triumphs and milestones. Your friends are real, but if you think that we, as social creatures, don't compare ourselves to each other instinctively then you are definitely in denial. After twenty years of close friendship, you're going to be comparing yourself to your closest social group and measuring yourself against them.

[Anonymous]

My friendships are easy and uncomplicated. That's why they're my friends. If I had to work at liking them or spend much time worrying about whether they had my back, they wouldn't be my friends.