Sixth Grade Blues

[Anonymous]

Thank you, PP. Your last point is interesting - it seems to us that DS has the opposite problem re mindset. He blames everyone but himself and won't own up to any sort of responsibility for his actions. It's always our fault, not his.

The other interesting issue (and why we're concerned) is that our reminders indeed start out calm and pleasant but DS escalates everything into yelling and screaming. I, for one, try to walk away but that doesn't help. He'll follow us around and just won't relent.

Glad to know that we're not alone in dealing with this.

10:43 again. From this post, it sounds like you have a bigger problem than homework. Yelling, screaming, following you around and not relenting isn't behavior I would expect from a 6th grader even with ADHD/LD. It's unacceptable behavior and there need to be consequences for his behavior. When he gets that way, what do you do? You say he has non-school interests which he engages every week. Are you tying behavior/homework to doing those activities? Our DS knows that he has to 'earn' extracurriculars just like DH and I have to earn a paycheck. We all have responsibilities to fulfill so we can earn money, keep the household running and all that stuff. If the kids don't do what they're supposed to, there are natural/logical consequences - including not participating in an extracurricular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you, PP. Your last point is interesting - it seems to us that DS has the opposite problem re mindset. He blames everyone but himself and won't own up to any sort of responsibility for his actions. It's always our fault, not his.

The other interesting issue (and why we're concerned) is that our reminders indeed start out calm and pleasant but DS escalates everything into yelling and screaming. I, for one, try to walk away but that doesn't help. He'll follow us around and just won't relent.

Glad to know that we're not alone in dealing with this.

10:43 again. From this post, it sounds like you have a bigger problem than homework. Yelling, screaming, following you around and not relenting isn't behavior I would expect from a 6th grader even with ADHD/LD. It's unacceptable behavior and there need to be consequences for his behavior. When he gets that way, what do you do? You say he has non-school interests which he engages every week. Are you tying behavior/homework to doing those activities? Our DS knows that he has to 'earn' extracurriculars just like DH and I have to earn a paycheck. We all have responsibilities to fulfill so we can earn money, keep the household running and all that stuff. If the kids don't do what they're supposed to, there are natural/logical consequences - including not participating in an extracurricular.

+1 Agree. You should take this course with Dr. Shapiro: http://www.raisingyourchallengingchild.com/

[Anonymous]

OP here. There are consequences in the form of no electronics/screentime, as well as others consequences. Tying it to extracurriculars isn't something that we would do -- the extracurriculars are great for his self-esteem and are things in which he really excels and which demand commitment. Our own thoughts at this point, confirmed by some of the responses here, are that this indeed is a behavioral problem - just not clear (yet) if it's tied into a bigger mental health problem.

We agree that the behavior is unacceptable and, as I posted earlier, the expectations that are set re agenda review aren't just our expectations but those of school -- and would be those of a special needs school as well, based on what we saw/heard when we toured some of the schools last year. Nor are the expectations unreasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. There are consequences in the form of no electronics/screentime, as well as others consequences. Tying it to extracurriculars isn't something that we would do -- the extracurriculars are great for his self-esteem and are things in which he really excels and which demand commitment. Our own thoughts at this point, confirmed by some of the responses here, are that this indeed is a behavioral problem - just not clear (yet) if it's tied into a bigger mental health problem.

We agree that the behavior is unacceptable and, as I posted earlier, the expectations that are set re agenda review aren't just our expectations but those of school -- and would be those of a special needs school as well, based on what we saw/heard when we toured some of the schools last year. Nor are the expectations unreasonable.

I'm sorry to say this but you are reinforcing your DS's negative behavior. It's clear the current consequences (electronic/screentime, etc.) aren't meaningful to him. Yet, you won't touch something that is meaningful to him. Why should he change? This is discipline 101. This is not part of a bigger mental health issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. There are consequences in the form of no electronics/screentime, as well as others consequences. Tying it to extracurriculars isn't something that we would do -- the extracurriculars are great for his self-esteem and are things in which he really excels and which demand commitment. Our own thoughts at this point, confirmed by some of the responses here, are that this indeed is a behavioral problem - just not clear (yet) if it's tied into a bigger mental health problem.

We agree that the behavior is unacceptable and, as I posted earlier, the expectations that are set re agenda review aren't just our expectations but those of school -- and would be those of a special needs school as well, based on what we saw/heard when we toured some of the schools last year. Nor are the expectations unreasonable.

I'm sorry to say this but you are reinforcing your DS's negative behavior. It's clear the current consequences (electronic/screentime, etc.) aren't meaningful to him. Yet, you won't touch something that is meaningful to him. Why should he change? This is discipline 101. This is not part of a bigger mental health issue.

I appreciate all the would-be psychiatrists/behavioralists and armchair diagnosticians on here. As always, a lot is helpful and some is not.

[Anonymous]

The reason that I suggested non-academics---not extracurricular interests but more of a trade school/votec approach is because I found it super helpful with my add Inattentive dysgraphic son, and my sister found the same with my nephew. These are bright boys, who just aren't cut out for the whole "you are going to college" agenda. The shop teachers, usually older guys, "get" these boys in a way that most academic teachers do not. I found that the improvement carried over 15-fold into academics as well.

[Anonymous]

<<+1 Agree. You should take this course with Dr. Shapiro: http://www.raisingyourchallengingchild.com/>>

NP here -- why is this class so helpful???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason that I suggested non-academics---not extracurricular interests but more of a trade school/votec approach is because I found it super helpful with my add Inattentive dysgraphic son, and my sister found the same with my nephew. These are bright boys, who just aren't cut out for the whole "you are going to college" agenda. The shop teachers, usually older guys, "get" these boys in a way that most academic teachers do not. I found that the improvement carried over 15-fold into academics as well.

OP here - I don't entirely disagree with this but in DS's case, he's not the classic "want to work with tools" kid. He has a lot of strong creative field-related abilities and believe me, it's entirely possible that will be his path. Obviously, no one can see a kid's whole picture through these discussions but DS is not having meltdowns over academic work as much as over sticking to a pretty simple, basic routine. And he is doing okay at school with routine - the issue is at home. It could be that he's melting down from adhering to a routine all day or, as some have suggested (and we increasingly wonder), there could be other emotional/behavioral/mental health issues. He does have ADHD but really does not have much of the "H" in ADHD at all.

[Anonymous]

In that case, I'd look for a super strong teacher in the creative field he is interested in and pursue instruction there. Two things: one, the routine may feel humiliating. That is the thing about private school---everyone does it. I agree that there are compliant children or those who are browbeaten into it, but honestly they are few and far between.

Second, I recommend that when he starts screaming and such, you physically stop. Turn and look at him, and say: sit down please. Of course he won't, so you just wait. Look at him, don't react, don't escalate consequences, just wait. Also, pick starting this battle when you have unlimited time, because you can't change course. Wait til he sits down. Repeat expectation, walk off. If he follows, tell him to sit down and wait him out. Lather, rinse, repeat. It will take about a week....if you can't deal with it at the time, don't start. Don't talk to him when he is screaming, don't engage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somehow, you kid isn't owning the problem . . .

OP here - I see your point and disagree at the same time. There's no particular mold that we're trying to hammer him into - these are basic expectations. . . Moreover, they're not just our expectations - they're school's expectations as well. And having visited privates for kids with LD's last year (and DS actually spent part of a day at one), they have the same expectations. Keep an agenda. Go through it with your family. Let people work with you to prioritize what needs to be done. . .

Different PP here. OP, it sounds like you are maintaining a lot of control here and that could be part of the problem. By sixth grade, do you have to physically go through the agenda with him or can you let him have control of telling you what's in it. Can't you let him prioritize, make mistakes and then help him put things back together? You say in a later post that your son takes no responsibility but always blames you. Well, if you aren't giving him control and letting him make mistakes then maybe he has a point.

As I said earlier, I took a very different approach than many parents in my shoes and gradually turned over responsibility to my son starting in third grade. There have been plenty of times where he made decisions that are not what I would have made. There are times when I've gone to bed before my son got his work done because it took longer than he anticipated. There are times when I got him up at 5 am with me to redo work because his product was not acceptable. There are times when my son had to spend all weekend reading a book and was not able to play with friends because he started too late on the required reading. But, as time has gone on, he's learned about himself, which in turn, results in better decisions on his part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. There are consequences in the form of no electronics/screentime, as well as others consequences. Tying it to extracurriculars isn't something that we would do -- the extracurriculars are great for his self-esteem and are things in which he really excels and which demand commitment. Our own thoughts at this point, confirmed by some of the responses here, are that this indeed is a behavioral problem - just not clear (yet) if it's tied into a bigger mental health problem.

We agree that the behavior is unacceptable and, as I posted earlier, the expectations that are set re agenda review aren't just our expectations but those of school -- and would be those of a special needs school as well, based on what we saw/heard when we toured some of the schools last year. Nor are the expectations unreasonable.

I'm sorry to say this but you are reinforcing your DS's negative behavior. It's clear the current consequences (electronic/screentime, etc.) aren't meaningful to him. Yet, you won't touch something that is meaningful to him. Why should he change? This is discipline 101. This is not part of a bigger mental health issue.

No it's not.

OP, I think your ADHD kid is responding with anxiety. He's working himself up over something so basic. In the example you gave, he probably feels embarrassed that he mixed up assignments not working on the one due sooner. But did he get any positive feedback on the effort he put into the other assignment?

Speak with his teacher and let him know the trouble you're having. The system of checking his agenda is to help him learn organizational skills. Suggest that the teacher needs to explain to him that you need to sign and date the agenda every school day. And check in with him daily that this has been done (at least in the short term).

Personally, I think you're going to get more with a carrot than a stick. He's already not doing what he's supposed to be doing. Taking away additional privileges isn't going to help and make him feel more defeated.

Read about positive reinforcement. The Kazdin Method is good.

[Anonymous]

10:43 again. From your subsequent posts, it's unclear why your DS is behaving the way he is. In the first couple of posts, it's sounds completely behavioral - poor discipline as a PP noted. However, from your later posts, it seems as if anxiety and/or over-control could be issues. My DS also has anxiety and there was a point a couple years ago when he had a poor general ed teacher that his anxiety spun out of control. It took the form of extreme meltdowns in the special ed classroom. Although we'd seen this behavior at home, this was the first time they'd seen his anxiety and this behavior. He used to save it all for home but not that year, that year, it was all at school and great behavior at home.

We already had a behavior management plan at home and they instituted one at school after an FBA. It worked quite well but we also had to help him identify what was triggering him and techniques to help him manage his anxiety. No matter the genesis of his behavior, it was unacceptable to behave that way and he had consequences at home and school.

[Anonymous]

I'm a PP. My son is similar in several ways. An LD contributes to the avoidance--school work is hard! I have no answers--my son is also quite oppositional. But I would try to make his screen time a reward rather than withholding it as a consequence. That way earning it is a positive experience in and of itself and the language is positive rather than punitive. There may be push back from a new behavior plan (often to be expected--it is called an "extinction burst") but he will likely adapt if the expectations are clear and consistent. You might try to get on his side by asking the teacher to OK some homework modifications, like 30 minutes max on math, or every other problem. My son gets very stressy and persistent (following) and I don't know what all is causing it but anxiety is driving it. The best way to deal with anxiety is to learn to cope with it and learn it passes by facing the scary situation (homework and what is expected). My son uses arguing as an avoidance technique so that may be at play too. Michelle Garcia Winner has some resources on homework (a DVD and maybe some books) that explains some of kids' resistance to homework, like not having a concept of how long it will take. Some kids don't have a good concept of time, even bright kids. So you might set a timer and give rewards for every 10 minutes of work with a max of x minutes total.

[Anonymous]

OP,

I think it's really common that kids with ADHD or other LDs might melt down or get oppositional at home but not at school. They are working hard to keep it all together during the day and don't always have the most appropriate responses at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I think it's really common that kids with ADHD or other LDs might melt down or get oppositional at home but not at school. They are working hard to keep it all together during the day and don't always have the most appropriate responses at home.

Precisely. We had similar issues with our son in 6th grade. We put him in a private school with a learning specialist on staff and the change is amazing. He LOVES school. He is motivated to do his homework. He stays after school 2x a week for study hall and does a lot of work then. The entire 7th grade team works on organizational strategies. When I read OP's posts, I thought she was describing my son in 6th grade. Now I feel like I have a different child. The small classes, individualized attention, and focus on community has made a HUGE difference for our child. When a child is happy, he'll want to do well.