ILs/DH "set others up" and resort to gas lighting...

[Anonymous]

It's not gaslighting, but it's certainly annoying and unpleasant.

You need to disengage from it. Cook whatever you want to cook, or order in, or whatever, and then when they complain, just say, "I'm sorry you don't like the meal."

When your husband criticizes you or acts like a jerk, just step away--go for that walk on your own, or say, "I'm sorry you don't want to go to the beach today. I've really been looking forward to it, though, so I'll meet back up with you at dinnertime."

But really, your husband sounds like a jerk. Being with our parents can make us fall back into old patterns of behavior, but grownups can control themselves.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks PP! Hence my frustration! Grow up already!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thanks so much for the *constructive* posts! I truly appreciate your insights more than you know. Its been years, and I am all out of ideas.

He has tried counseling, but is quite charming, so is not successful in counseling. He can easily convince others of a stream of stories - many against me! If I didn't see it for myself, I would think I was paranoid But believe me, its bad.

I have sought help myself, and they eventually tell me to leave him. Maybe when the kids are older, I'm just not there yet. I fully realize that one of DCUMs *favorite* responses is "get divorced!" so it was hard for me to ask for help here. I try to own my stuff so I can move forward. DH refuses to own his stuff.

Honestly, I really feel like I need some tools to deal with him so I don't end up like his bitter, hostile mother. She is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

For the most part, I avoid couple gatherings with him and seeing his family with him.

He was emotionally abused by his family, so his acting out is sneaky and tiresome. Like his family was to him (he felt he had no escape until much older). It is always projected at me. For a long time, I was hoping he would "learn" how to treat me from my example of being supportive and positive, but he just refuses. Its not in his line of sight.

Its most difficult because I have had to figure all of this out myself. I came from a really positive, warm relationship (a couple years before I met DH - a few years long). I naively thought everyone was considerate and well meaning. I seemed to have corned the market with inconsiderate, spiteful, nasty, bitter cads in his family, unfortunately.

I guess part of me is hoping that he will realize the truth when his mother dies (she's very old). I know this sounds outrageous.

There are reasons I am with him, they just become less and less easy to see at certain times of year. I used to look forward to holidays.

OP, I am not one to jump on the "get divorced" bandwagon, but what you describe is beyond sad. Are you willing to burn away your years with this guy?

A couple of things:

1. He has had counseling and charmed his way out of it. But have you had couples counseling together? A very experienced couples counselor might be able to see past his charm and his lies about you -- don't dismiss it as "a stream of stories against me," it's lies -- and might be able to get him to recognize the pattern he's acing out.

2. Whatever you decide, your children are learning, learning, learning every day from dad's behaviors. Do you really want that to continue?

3. If you fear ending up like his mom, it means you see that it's a possibility - you see that you are on a road to being bitter like she is. Don't be his mom. Don't let your husband sour your personality. You said you need tools to deal with him -- therapy can give you those tools. Get some for yourself, alone, but also see if couples counseling can finally get past his charm and lies -- IF you want to remain married.

[Anonymous]

Even though several PP don't think it's gaslighting, I think it could apply. What you're trying to convey maybe is that you feel the comments are made on purpose in order to undermine your confidence and/or sense of self. That they are telling you that the food you make and the normal things that people do (that DH and you would normally do) are unreasonable. In the reading I did about gaslighting, one person telling another person that their completely reasonable action/reaction is unreasonable is gaslighting. It's a deliberate action in order to skew one's sense of reality. To make you doubt your perception of reality, feelings, understanding and instead replace it with theirs.

I agree that the only way to combat this behavior is to ignore it or leave the situation (i.e. not go to the beach). If I was in your shoes and I still went to the beach, I would reaffirm the fact that these are reasonable feelings, reasonable expectations, and reasonable reactions to myself. You can even say it out loud to him. You don't have to shame him in public, but you can say to him in the moment, "No, this is a completely reasonable activity. I am sorry you don't think it would be any fun." And maybe, "The kids and I are going to do it anyway."

I am sorry you have to deal with this. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I am a fan of calling people out on their behavior.

"We each take turns cooking. I cooked a well-balanced meal. If you don't like it, just like the children, you're welcome to make yourself a sandwich or grab yogurt and a piece of fruit. Nobody told me we were doing short-order cooking for dinner tonight."

"Steve, why are you saying such vile things about me? It makes you look bad to speak poorly of your wife to others this way, even though these people are laughing. They're laughing because people laugh when they're nervous or uncomfortable."

"Steve, just because your parents were emotionally abusive to you does not mean you have earned the right to be emotionally abusive to me. You never talk this way any other time except for when we're around your parents. I know you're smart - don't you see this pattern?"

"Actually Steve, we ARE going mini-golfing. If you don't want to come, then that's a shame, we'll miss you. But the rest of us are going. Sorry you don't feel like joining in. Come on, kids!"

Say all of these things as needed, IN PUBLIC. Calling people out on their behavior only works when there are witnesses.

[Anonymous]

OP, the most scary thing to me here is your children. Your DH learned from his family and you can't change him. Aren't you worried about what your children are learning from him and his family? Why do you think you can protect them when you can't protect yourself? If he is making you feel this bad, he will eventually turn on them and it'll be too late. You'll have taught them to put up with it.

And if not from him, from their partners and spouses, who will likely be abusive since that is the model that they see. Can you not push yourself, for your children?

[Anonymous]

OP here. I would love to push myself for my children! One way or the other. DH has taken to having them team against me. He blames me.

The gas lighting is hard to describe (part of why manipulative people do it) - they won't come out and say "ugh, it's a terrible dinner" (its not that bad, really), but they will say (I'm trying to think of examples, they are extremely passive aggressive....) "what did YOU have growing up?" "did your mother do all of the cooking?"

Or (unrelated to cooking) deny something that they very definitely did.

They ask me questions which would sound normal to normal people, but contrived and added together, very one way. They NEVER discuss what they did growing up, or what their family member did. They work overtime to pigeonhole me. The sad part is, after all these years, they know so very little about me! I've never heard them talk to anyone else this way.

In fact, when DHs relative "worked" for DH, it would be "SHE (meaning me) does this, SHE does that...." In response to anything most would consider trivial. But after years of hearing it (and what they said always got back to me), its kind of tiring.

Wouldn't it be a lot less work to actually get to know me? Most of them haven't bothered. Another example, I will ask them to go for a walk on the beach and they will say no (and leave it at that, which is fine). 30 seconds later anyone else will ask, and they will take off without telling me. Which kind of hurts after the third time, even though it is predictable and shouldn't.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever done anything to them. I try to be kind and supportive, but its really getting me nowhere with such nasty people.

If I go to a family function or something where their family and/or friends are present, it is crystal clear I've been bad mouthed with some (more than usual) negativity. Once someone finally decides to include me in the conversation, (I don't mean this to sound petty, I just talk to my kids) - they have this reaction toward me that says "oh, she's not as bad as you (MIL) say." And then I have a fine relationship with all of the outsiders. She eventually makes herself look bad, because no one is really interested in such games.

But DH falls into it. It is as if he needs to be debriefed after being with them. I would feel better if he had one on one time with his BILs, because they seem genuinely nice. I have zero idea how they ended up here, really.

Can families really turn each other into such nasty SOBs?

I start to feel that if I describe their behavior, I'm the one that sounds crazy (I know I'm not - my family is far from perfect, but his family makes mine look normal).

[Anonymous]

He's turning your kids against you already. You need to act now, whatever you do. It's going to get worse, and your kids will be lost to you, in a sense.

[Anonymous]

OP, stay sane. Significantly minimize your time with the in-laws.

Stop trying with them. Do not invite the in-laws to go for a walk on the beach. Invite your kids. Or leash up the dog and take the dog. But stop trying with these people. They are petty and each time you gravel (and you're graveling) it feeds their egos.

Stay sane. Teach your kids to refuse to take sides. "Dad, this is between you and Mommy. I don't want to get involved."

[Anonymous]

Before my DH and I got married, I was a different person when I was with both my parents and (then) significant other-(now) DH. My mother was very, very narcissistic, and pretty miserable to be around even when she was trying to be nice. I never realized that I frequently adapted her cynical, can't-please-me attitude toward life in general (when I was with her and SO--otherwise I think I was mostly a nice person) until my SO very lovingly and gently pointed it out to me. It was painful, but I realized he was right and there was no need for me to be like her.

Maybe your husband doesn't realize that he is a completely different person around his family. Maybe you need to have a gentle loving but completely upfront conversation about it after your next family vacation, when you can focus on his behavior and how hurtful it is. Never hurts to remind our spouses that we're their family now, that we deserve their best behavior. If he can't see his behavior, you should say that you'd like to opt out of his family vacations in future when it's very stressful and unenjoyable to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The beach threads got me thinking - what exactly do I dread so much about my ILs beach week that makes it so very painful? I came up with a few things.

We try to take turns making dinner. Which I agree with completely. But frankly, I would rather go out or order in than hear them complain. Their palette is not that sophisticated, which is fine, but they whine, pick and/or complain like children if its not as bland as can be, or a very narrow, specific way they like it. Frankly, I wouldn't know what to make for them, that would avoid their nasty reactions. In addition, I would not want the young children to see adults acting this way. I could do no right, if I cooked the best or the worst.

They are passive aggressive and treat me like some sort of entertainment. DH plays into this by acting out. Really, he becomes a really nasty person around certain people. I think he thrives off of unhappy people. If someone else is bitching, he'll get right on the bandwagon, in an effort to "fit in". If someone bitches about their wife, automatically its me that is the problem. If his mother is around, he starts fights with me. He never has anything nice to say around certain people. Yet with most people, he can/is perfectly normal. But I swear he prefers the latter, I think he finds this more appealing, somehow. Hard to explain and even harder to understand, but after all these years, it is as predictable as can be. As if he wants to highlight how great *he* is, somehow? "See what I put up with?" Not really, I was just sitting here minding my own business, and you decide to be an asshole.

DH becomes the same old jerk his dad was on vacation. I know this without ever having met his dad. Again, DH seems to get nasty, temperamental, complain and pick fights. He can be kind of a dictator, and dictates arbitrary decisions - "no, we are not going to do that (fun event) today!" "no I am not going to participate in something loving, like a quick walk on the beach) right now" and only gives in if he can somehow make me the bad guy, as if it is some huge sacrifice to be a normal person.

He creates drama, then makes any discussion about it public, consistently putting me in a bad situation.

I am trying to relay this clearly. It is almost like gas lighting. Which is extremely frustrating. I need some methods to get through the week. I need to call him in front of everyone on his behavior.

If you have a gas lighting spouse, how do you deal with it? In the past, I have tried not to attend the beach week, it is easier that way. But now that the children are older, they are asking well ahead of time and wanting me to join them. UGH.

FYI - It is "palate" not "palette"!

[Anonymous]

10:00 - way to try to deflect, annoying SIL!

[Anonymous]

I know it's hard OP but try not to worry so much about what other people think. I think these folks, including your husband, are banding together to make you feel bad. Why? Who knows? Maybe jealousy or insecurity. As someone else has said, just serve what you want to serve. Go out for walks. Do your own thing. Once your dh and others see they aren't getting to you they may find another target.

Also, if possible, just avoid going altogether as others have said. That's what I do. Life is too short to waste time with gross people.