Again, help me to understand why Blacks can't be anti gay marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blacks in NC came out en masse encouraged by their pastors to vote against gay marriage. Look at the voting trends and maps etc. Places like Research Triangle voted against the amendment and heavily black areas voted for. Hypocrites.

Links to the data?

While I'm in favor of same-sex marriage, it's not hypocrisy. If it's hypocrisy to discriminate against a group of people because the group of which you're a member has suffered discrimination at any time in the past, hypocrites on the same-sex marriage issue include:

1. Women
2. Irish people
3. Mexican people
4. Italian people
5. Jewish people
6. The list goes on

[Anonymous]

Yes, it does. Does that make it right?

[Anonymous]

No, and where did I say or even imply that it did?

I simply said the hypocrisy claim doesn't hold up because:

1. well, it doesn't actually fit the definition of hypocrisy
2. if hypocrisy were the correct word for it, it'd apply to almost everyone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:but White Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims can be against it?
Do Blacks need to remember their place?
The Nazi's killed homosexuals too, so it would stand to reason that all Jews should be out there marching for gay rights.

76% of Jews support gay marriage, according to the Pew Forum. If you subdivide any group enough, you will find opposition, but on the whole Jews march for gay rights.

Also something to note: in the black civil rights movement of the 60's, Jews were proportionally the most heavily involved in the movement, followed by Catholics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but White Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims can be against it?
Do Blacks need to remember their place?
The Nazi's killed homosexuals too, so it would stand to reason that all Jews should be out there marching for gay rights.

76% of Jews support gay marriage, according to the Pew Forum. If you subdivide any group enough, you will find opposition, but on the whole Jews march for gay rights.

Also something to note: in the black civil rights movement of the 60's, Jews were proportionally the most heavily involved in the movement, followed by Catholics.

More heavily involved than black Christians?

[Anonymous]

Then what would you call it?

And by "it," I mean Black people actively working to deny marriage rights to gay and lesbian couples?

[Anonymous]

Gay marriage financial facts:
1. IRS: you don't have to be married to be a file a Head of Household return [same rate as married] but you must have children.
2. IRS: Gay couples who live in the same household must have children to get the rate .
3. Gay couples end up paying more in taxes if they don't have children.
4. Increased health insurance costs.

It's a Gay Tax Surcharge!!!! Anyone have numbers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Then what would you call it?

And by "it," I mean Black people actively working to deny marriage rights to gay and lesbian couples?

I'd call it wrong.

Hypocrisy is saying gay sex is wrong while you secretly enjoy gay sex every night.

[Anonymous]

OP here, the thread is going down the path of "Blacks don't hate gays". That is not my question. My question is a little more tricky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue with Blacks this area, at least, is that they have actively fought to deny gay rights -- frirst in DC and now in Maryland. I don't see the same active effort to discriminate from Orthodox Jews or Muslims.

Orthodox Jews actively fight it too.
So do Whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, the thread is going down the path of "Blacks don't hate gays". That is not my question. My question is a little more tricky.

Too bad. That's the way things go on discussion forums.

If it makes you feel any better, I am black and pro same-sex marriage, but I agree that it's incorrect to call all blacks who are against same-sex marriage hypocritical.

Hypocritical is Eddie Long, a (black) pastor who preached vehemently against homosexuality, but was found to have engaged in same-sex activity. Sadly, it was also predatory behavior, because he had these relationships with young men who viewed him as a father figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but White Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims can be against it?
Do Blacks need to remember their place?
The Nazi's killed homosexuals too, so it would stand to reason that all Jews should be out there marching for gay rights.

76% of Jews support gay marriage, according to the Pew Forum. If you subdivide any group enough, you will find opposition, but on the whole Jews march for gay rights.

Also something to note: in the black civil rights movement of the 60's, Jews were proportionally the most heavily involved in the movement, followed by Catholics.

But the Orthodox Jews "should know better".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, the thread is going down the path of "Blacks don't hate gays". That is not my question. My question is a little more tricky.

Too bad. That's the way things go on discussion forums.

If it makes you feel any better, I am black and pro same-sex marriage, but I agree that it's incorrect to call all blacks who are against same-sex marriage hypocritical.

Hypocritical is Eddie Long, a (black) pastor who preached vehemently against homosexuality, but was found to have engaged in same-sex activity. Sadly, it was also predatory behavior, because he had these relationships with young men who viewed him as a father figure.

OP again, I agree with what you say. It is NOT hypocrisy to have a position against something that your religions (or inner feelings) deem wrong. It is not to say that in order to deserve racial equality Blacks have to go along with every other social equality issue.
To me, going along with your religious beliefs is what religious freedom is all about. Now the bigger question is not whether you support gay marriage or not, but whether the discrimination against gays is legal or ethical in our society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, the thread is going down the path of "Blacks don't hate gays". That is not my question. My question is a little more tricky.

Too bad. That's the way things go on discussion forums.

If it makes you feel any better, I am black and pro same-sex marriage, but I agree that it's incorrect to call all blacks who are against same-sex marriage hypocritical.

Hypocritical is Eddie Long, a (black) pastor who preached vehemently against homosexuality, but was found to have engaged in same-sex activity. Sadly, it was also predatory behavior, because he had these relationships with young men who viewed him as a father figure.

Well heck so did that white minister Haggard in colorado. The one who was caught with his gay lover. He had a mega church, but I don't hear people on this thread asking why do whit preachers preach from the pulpit about the sin of homosexuals. Word, they do. All the freaking time. In fact, Romney was congratulated by the front people for the evangelicals because Romney ousted his openly gay foreign advisor. Hey, why didn't anyone post about that on DCUM. No need to answer, I already know. Because these same people who think everything and all Black is evil, dare not take the log out of their own eyes and see that the people who look like them and the ones they love most are the biggest opponents of gay marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but White Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims can be against it?
Do Blacks need to remember their place?
The Nazi's killed homosexuals too, so it would stand to reason that all Jews should be out there marching for gay rights.

76% of Jews support gay marriage, according to the Pew Forum. If you subdivide any group enough, you will find opposition, but on the whole Jews march for gay rights.

Also something to note: in the black civil rights movement of the 60's, Jews were proportionally the most heavily involved in the movement, followed by Catholics.

But the Orthodox Jews "should know better".

Everybody should know better. But the fact is that the victims of persecution are seldom ennobled by it, and we should not be surprised that intolerance can take hold in any group of people.

I think we have to take a step back on the issue of the black vote on gay marriage. The primary reason this made the news is not because blacks owe some special duty to equality, above and beyond that of another group. It is because there is this paradox for liberals in 2008 and maybe 2012. Obama energized the black vote in 2008 and that had an ironic side effect on gay marriage referenda. The better he does at mobilizing them, the more votes he will likely bring against any other issue. That's it, really.