Cliquey parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

It’s completely obvious how shallow it is. I showed up at a new school, I’m cute and my kid is good looking and the mom cohort acted like I was some kind of celebrity welcoming me. Then at the first basketball practice my son is the worst on the team and burst into tears at one point. (I had no idea the other kids would be so skilled or I wouldn’t have encouraged him to join!) After that they acted like I had leprosy. Three years later they completely ignore me.
My second kid is better socially and I’m on all the group chats and invited to everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

You also respect your kids boundaries. I'm friends with parents whose kid has ADHD, they're taking it seriously and are doing everything they can, but he's a rough kid and my kid has asked not to hang out with him because he's too rough.

I can like and respect these other parents and I do have some more controlled events where roughhousing isn't an issue, but I'd be a bad mom if I forced an interaction that made my kid feel unsafe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

I personally saw a family join our school that happened to be a different race and nobody spoke to this family for a year. The mom specifically said I was the only one to be friendly to her all year long. Then they bought a house in the right neighborhood and wham, she’s in the clique and her kid is being invited to everything. Suddenly he’s best friends with these boys who never talked to him all year. Moms can definitely make sure their kids are friends with who they want. If a kid wants to invite someone they disapprove of they say oh, I don’t have his moms number.

[Anonymous]

Dog whistle AAP parent behavior: acting as if you’ve never heard of [base ES teacher] or asking if this is a new teacher all while immediately realizing this is a “base kid” NOT in the AAP program.

Also, “base kid” was a common taunt at our AAP center school.

Insufferable parents make insufferable DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dog whistle AAP parent behavior: acting as if you’ve never heard of [base ES teacher] or asking if this is a new teacher all while immediately realizing this is a “base kid” NOT in the AAP program.

Also, “base kid” was a common taunt at our AAP center school.

Insufferable parents make insufferable DC.

PP to add that cliquey parents abound in AAP program schools and predictably this falls along demographic and socioeconomic lines. The cliquey parents have perceived power, prestige, time and money to throw around and can therefore hold key roles and positions. See also: ES teacher selection. Note the classroom teacher of the PTA president DC.

[Anonymous]

I have 3 kids and my older two are now in high school. I have been through so many rounds of mom groups and friends. By high school, they are either your adult friends or not.

I have boys and girls with a wide range of interests. I had one kid who was super popular and social. Another kid who is an introvert and smart. We have been the new family. We have been on countless sports teams where we know everyone or we know no one.

I’m sure there are some people who may think I’m gatekeeping. At this point with my third child, I only tolerate parents I actually like. If my kid likes your kid, I will invite them for play dates and to birthday parties but I’m done socializing with parents just because our kids are the same age or class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

It’s completely obvious how shallow it is. I showed up at a new school, I’m cute and my kid is good looking and the mom cohort acted like I was some kind of celebrity welcoming me. Then at the first basketball practice my son is the worst on the team and burst into tears at one point. (I had no idea the other kids would be so skilled or I wouldn’t have encouraged him to join!) After that they acted like I had leprosy. Three years later they completely ignore me.
My second kid is better socially and I’m on all the group chats and invited to everything.

you sound pathetic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our PTA president is like this. Some moms like her but a few of my friends and I see right through it. She is very, very wealthy but kind of high strung and nervous about everything. This plays into how she gatekeeps. She puts on the front of inclusion for the sake of her PTA role, but it’s so obvious she enjoys orchestrating who gets into the circle. To be honest, she’s just very ungracious and probably having fun with the power of her husband’s money…she wouldn’t be anything remarkable without him and probably knows it.

Is she hot?

IME they’re never hot. The hot moms are a separate group who swoop in and do what they want to do but they’re not the orchestrators.

No, she’s not hot at all, about as far from it as you can get. This might be part of the problem.

The PP above is absolutely correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

I'm the person that the PP responded to (the one with two boys, one who struggled socially as a young kid and one who was athletic and popular as a young kid). I don't mean that my second kid was invited to more birthday parties than my first kid. Of course he was. That was not surprising, and just indicative of their different personalities, and I wouldn't have said that was cliquish. I meant like- moms and their kids would gather under one shady tree at the pool and when we walked in, despite living on the same block as these moms, I'd smile and wave and they'd pretend not to see me. Or a few families would get together for a backyard grill on Saturday and not invite us, but invite the other families within walking distance. And then once my younger son started elementary, suddenly the neighborhood was filled with all of these BBQs that we were invited to, and people waved us over to their shady tree at the pool, once I was bringing my younger kid and not my older one. Some of the moms were the same women!!! It was clearly because they wanted their kids to be friends with my second kid, and to be associated with him, but not my first. It is the world we live in. FWIW, my first kid is going to an Ivy next year, but these particular women are not the type to be impressed by that- they're still more impressed by my second kid, who is not on track to go to an Ivy, but still is a great club soccer player and still "popular" in middle school. It says more about them than about either of my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

You also respect your kids boundaries. I'm friends with parents whose kid has ADHD, they're taking it seriously and are doing everything they can, but he's a rough kid and my kid has asked not to hang out with him because he's too rough.

I can like and respect these other parents and I do have some more controlled events where roughhousing isn't an issue, but I'd be a bad mom if I forced an interaction that made my kid feel unsafe.

The key is to respect your kid's choices in making friends, but to be generally friendly to other parents regardless.

There is only one time I've basically shut another parent out and it's because she crossed a line with my kid and I (behaved inappropriately towards both of us). But other than that one exception, there's pretty much no parent I won't chat with at a school event or pick up or whatever. I don't want to be friends with everyone but that's no different from any other community -- neighbors or coworkers or classmates or whatever. You can be nice to everyone while also being selective about who you develop closer relationships to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

It’s completely obvious how shallow it is. I showed up at a new school, I’m cute and my kid is good looking and the mom cohort acted like I was some kind of celebrity welcoming me. Then at the first basketball practice my son is the worst on the team and burst into tears at one point. (I had no idea the other kids would be so skilled or I wouldn’t have encouraged him to join!) After that they acted like I had leprosy. Three years later they completely ignore me.
My second kid is better socially and I’m on all the group chats and invited to everything.

You need to get over yourself about being welcome like a celebrity.

I’m good looking and so are my kids. We were also welcomed but not like celebrities. Both my boys are very athletic. My one kid does play basketball. My kid improved, made the travel, AAU and high school teams. When I see parents from his elementary basketball team, we say hi and friendly.

They probably don’t like you for some other reason. Being full of yourself might be it.

[Anonymous]

I meant to say when I see the kids who didn’t make the team, I’m still friendly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

I'm the person that the PP responded to (the one with two boys, one who struggled socially as a young kid and one who was athletic and popular as a young kid). I don't mean that my second kid was invited to more birthday parties than my first kid. Of course he was. That was not surprising, and just indicative of their different personalities, and I wouldn't have said that was cliquish. I meant like- moms and their kids would gather under one shady tree at the pool and when we walked in, despite living on the same block as these moms, I'd smile and wave and they'd pretend not to see me. Or a few families would get together for a backyard grill on Saturday and not invite us, but invite the other families within walking distance. And then once my younger son started elementary, suddenly the neighborhood was filled with all of these BBQs that we were invited to, and people waved us over to their shady tree at the pool, once I was bringing my younger kid and not my older one. Some of the moms were the same women!!! It was clearly because they wanted their kids to be friends with my second kid, and to be associated with him, but not my first. It is the world we live in. FWIW, my first kid is going to an Ivy next year, but these particular women are not the type to be impressed by that- they're still more impressed by my second kid, who is not on track to go to an Ivy, but still is a great club soccer player and still "popular" in middle school. It says more about them than about either of my kids.

Isn't it funny when adults adopt the same status hierarchies as little kids? Like when my kids were in early elementary and there was this jockeying for social position, the kids on top were pretty much always the sporty, outgoing, physically attractive kids. That's just how it is at that age, I remember it when I was young too. Kids only have so many metrics at their disposal, and those are the obvious ones -- soccer ability, looks, confidence. As you get older you realize there's a lot more nuance. Intelligence becomes more significant and valued, as well as qualities like kindness or creativity. Puberty changes how everyone looks, plus some kids grow into features or develop good style or hygiene to make the most of what they have. People also learn that some people have too much of a good thing -- if the confident kid becomes arrogant and condescending, people like him less, for instance.

As an adult, my friends are not all sporty, outgoing people. Some are, but some are quieter and more thoughtful. Some are very smart, others are artistic. What I value most are things like being easy to spend time with, being consistent and reliable, having a sense of humor, and being generally kind.

But then I'll talk to elementary parents and they are like "That Lucas is really fast, what a great kid. Man Sylvia is so comfortable around adults, I love it. Logan is a natural leader, you can tell." And then ignore literally all the other kids, or any nuance about their strengths and personalities. It's like reversion to a caveman mentality. Boy hit ball hard, it go far. Boy good! Just forgetting everything you've learned about human nature in the 30 or 40 years you've been alive and return to the most basic interpretation of status and value. It's so weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

I'm the person that the PP responded to (the one with two boys, one who struggled socially as a young kid and one who was athletic and popular as a young kid). I don't mean that my second kid was invited to more birthday parties than my first kid. Of course he was. That was not surprising, and just indicative of their different personalities, and I wouldn't have said that was cliquish. I meant like- moms and their kids would gather under one shady tree at the pool and when we walked in, despite living on the same block as these moms, I'd smile and wave and they'd pretend not to see me. Or a few families would get together for a backyard grill on Saturday and not invite us, but invite the other families within walking distance. And then once my younger son started elementary, suddenly the neighborhood was filled with all of these BBQs that we were invited to, and people waved us over to their shady tree at the pool, once I was bringing my younger kid and not my older one. Some of the moms were the same women!!! It was clearly because they wanted their kids to be friends with my second kid, and to be associated with him, but not my first. It is the world we live in. FWIW, my first kid is going to an Ivy next year, but these particular women are not the type to be impressed by that- they're still more impressed by my second kid, who is not on track to go to an Ivy, but still is a great club soccer player and still "popular" in middle school. It says more about them than about either of my kids.

Isn't it funny when adults adopt the same status hierarchies as little kids? Like when my kids were in early elementary and there was this jockeying for social position, the kids on top were pretty much always the sporty, outgoing, physically attractive kids. That's just how it is at that age, I remember it when I was young too. Kids only have so many metrics at their disposal, and those are the obvious ones -- soccer ability, looks, confidence. As you get older you realize there's a lot more nuance. Intelligence becomes more significant and valued, as well as qualities like kindness or creativity. Puberty changes how everyone looks, plus some kids grow into features or develop good style or hygiene to make the most of what they have. People also learn that some people have too much of a good thing -- if the confident kid becomes arrogant and condescending, people like him less, for instance.

As an adult, my friends are not all sporty, outgoing people. Some are, but some are quieter and more thoughtful. Some are very smart, others are artistic. What I value most are things like being easy to spend time with, being consistent and reliable, having a sense of humor, and being generally kind.

But then I'll talk to elementary parents and they are like "That Lucas is really fast, what a great kid. Man Sylvia is so comfortable around adults, I love it. Logan is a natural leader, you can tell." And then ignore literally all the other kids, or any nuance about their strengths and personalities. It's like reversion to a caveman mentality. Boy hit ball hard, it go far. Boy good! Just forgetting everything you've learned about human nature in the 30 or 40 years you've been alive and return to the most basic interpretation of status and value. It's so weird.

youre the only weird one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im the mom of one boy who had social struggles in early elementary and wasn’t super athletic. I was friendly with some other moms but in general I was taken aback and how cliquish the moms of kids in his grade seemed to be, and felt sort of left out of many things. Then in rolled my second kid with his easy confidence and his superior athleticism and the moms of kids in HIS grade were so surprisingly friendly! We were invited to everything! Everyone was so welcoming! I was added to so many group chats!

I knew better though. If my second kid had been my first kid I would have thought our school was just so welcoming and nice and then I’d have been devastated when my second kid rolled in and we were shut out of stuff in his grade. I also know those moms will drop me as soon as my kid decides he actually doesn’t want to do travel soccer anymore he wants to do the chess club. So I stay above the drama. I recommend it

This. I went through this with just one kid. She was the "weird", small, awkward kid who was bad at sports and really limited social skills until 4th grade. She struggled to make friends and the other moms avoided me or talked to me with pity in their voices because they felt bad for us. Then in 4th, DD, who is actually an awesome kid who happened to be socially awkward, started winning every academic award the school offered and the other kids discovered she plays the piano and violin really well. Suddenly the kids liked and respected her and started inviting her to things, and the other moms got much more friendly. But my kid didn't change and neither did I. It's just the way they viewed us changed because they discovered my kid has hidden talents when they'd assumed we were all just losers.

I was never impolite and of course I encouraged my kid to accept those offers of friendship. But I also recognized it all for what it was -- shallow. People tell on themselves every single day.

Why is it shallow? Honest question- if my kids aren’t friends with a kid at school, I don’t invite them to play dates and activities. Just like other families don’t invite my kid to stuff. But then kids change, become friends with different kids, etc. So then I would invite someone to that.

It’s completely obvious how shallow it is. I showed up at a new school, I’m cute and my kid is good looking and the mom cohort acted like I was some kind of celebrity welcoming me. Then at the first basketball practice my son is the worst on the team and burst into tears at one point. (I had no idea the other kids would be so skilled or I wouldn’t have encouraged him to join!) After that they acted like I had leprosy. Three years later they completely ignore me.
My second kid is better socially and I’m on all the group chats and invited to everything.

You need to get over yourself about being welcome like a celebrity.

I’m good looking and so are my kids. We were also welcomed but not like celebrities. Both my boys are very athletic. My one kid does play basketball. My kid improved, made the travel, AAU and high school teams. When I see parents from his elementary basketball team, we say hi and friendly.

They probably don’t like you for some other reason. Being full of yourself might be it.

DP but it seems like you misread the PP. She didn't sound full of herself at all. They go treated "like a celebrity" because they were a new family and physically attractive. But then her son wound up on a basketball team with a group of much more skilled kids, had a horrible practice and cried, and the same parents ignored her and avoided them. Neither of those responses were based on her or her kid's actual value as a person, they were just kind of knee-jerk responses to stimuli. Her point is that both responses are shallow and not to be taken personally.

BTW my kid and I are not objectively that attractive, and some people are welcoming and kind when she starts at a new school or team, but most people are not. They aren't mean, but people don't instantly gravitate to us the way they would to really physically attractive people. But in some ways I think this benefits us in the long run because what happens is that people get to know us over time and then those that choose to befriend us are clearly doing it because of something other than just being photogenic or popular. I think the good looking, athletic, outgoing kids often have a lot of offers for friendships but many are just based on kids wanting to catch some the reflected glory, which is not the best foundation for a friendship. Sometimes it's useful to skate under the radar.