Penn or Williams for pre-med?

[Anonymous]

Obviously Penn. families here are weird and will shoot you on purpose by lying that these LACs are in any way comparable to ivies

[Anonymous]

Both great -- choose based on social fit. DC should be able to tell which one feels more like a potential home.

[Anonymous]

It makes sense to choose between Williams and Dartmouth for premed. Penn v Williams doesn’t make sense. Penn has a ton more resources.

[Anonymous]

Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student

obviously there are far more opportunities at UPenn, but it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Williams has more opportunities than anyone attending could possibly utilize within four years, so that Williams offers 700 courses and UPenn offers 2500 isn't particularly meaningful unless you want to do cutting edge graduate level coursework (which most students at either school do not).

Williams, as a school with a 6:1 student to faculty ratio (vs. Penn's 8:1), a distinctive Oxford style tutorial program offering 2:1 student to faculty classes, and an honors program with a known track record of producing more academics per capita than UPenn (12th nationally vs. 90th), offers potentially the strongest quality of undergraduate education you can get in any college in America. 58% of UPenn classes are under 20 students, compared to 75% of Williams classes. Williams professors' top priority is their undergraduates; the academic advising and individualized mentorship is unbeatable. 80-90% of Williams students applying get into med school in a given year, whereas UPenn has historically ranged from 71-83%. In fact, Williams is a stronger feeder than UPenn for students enrolling at top medical schools per capita (though UPenn still ranks top 20 nationally).

Williams does all this while still doing comparably for feeding into Wall Street and top business schools at comparable rates to UPenn, in case you want to make an argument that Wharton has more professionally oriented students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student

obviously there are far more opportunities at UPenn, but it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Williams has more opportunities than anyone attending could possibly utilize within four years, so that Williams offers 700 courses and UPenn offers 2500 isn't particularly meaningful unless you want to do cutting edge graduate level coursework (which most students at either school do not).

Williams, as a school with a 6:1 student to faculty ratio (vs. Penn's 8:1), a distinctive Oxford style tutorial program offering 2:1 student to faculty classes, and an honors program with a known track record of producing more academics per capita than UPenn (12th nationally vs. 90th), offers potentially the strongest quality of undergraduate education you can get in any college in America. 58% of UPenn classes are under 20 students, compared to 75% of Williams classes. Williams professors' top priority is their undergraduates; the academic advising and individualized mentorship is unbeatable. 80-90% of Williams students applying get into med school in a given year, whereas UPenn has historically ranged from 71-83%. In fact, Williams is a stronger feeder than UPenn for students enrolling at top medical schools per capita (though UPenn still ranks top 20 nationally).

Williams does all this while still doing comparably for feeding into Wall Street and top business schools at comparable rates to UPenn, in case you want to make an argument that Wharton has more professionally oriented students.

Let’s cut the fat.

It has a study abroad program in Oxford- doesn’t matter, you can do that from many other schools.

Tutorial is a course you only take once or a few times if you’re in the humanities. The tutorial options in STEM are skim and may not even be relevant for what you want to do. Also, other colleges discovered Independent Study decades ago.

Honors is just a thesis, nothing special.

Most of Penn and Williams courses are small. Penn has more students so there’s more range. It’s actually more impressive such a high percentage of people go to med school from a school as large as Penn- they’re clearly challenging students and getting them opportunities.

What does UPenn have? Multiple massive medical centers- some of the most important ones in their state. Many more research, advising, and shadowing opportunities. More funding for clubs related to healthcare. More talks, more visiting scholars, more everything. If you have any ambition at all, it makes more sense to go to Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student

obviously there are far more opportunities at UPenn, but it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Williams has more opportunities than anyone attending could possibly utilize within four years, so that Williams offers 700 courses and UPenn offers 2500 isn't particularly meaningful unless you want to do cutting edge graduate level coursework (which most students at either school do not).

Williams, as a school with a 6:1 student to faculty ratio (vs. Penn's 8:1), a distinctive Oxford style tutorial program offering 2:1 student to faculty classes, and an honors program with a known track record of producing more academics per capita than UPenn (12th nationally vs. 90th), offers potentially the strongest quality of undergraduate education you can get in any college in America. 58% of UPenn classes are under 20 students, compared to 75% of Williams classes. Williams professors' top priority is their undergraduates; the academic advising and individualized mentorship is unbeatable. 80-90% of Williams students applying get into med school in a given year, whereas UPenn has historically ranged from 71-83%. In fact, Williams is a stronger feeder than UPenn for students enrolling at top medical schools per capita (though UPenn still ranks top 20 nationally).

Williams does all this while still doing comparably for feeding into Wall Street and top business schools at comparable rates to UPenn, in case you want to make an argument that Wharton has more professionally oriented students.

I don’t get the LAC obsession with PhD admission. Grad schools are disgustingly predatory and often toxic. I’d rather a kid get a job then delay it by 6 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student

obviously there are far more opportunities at UPenn, but it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Williams has more opportunities than anyone attending could possibly utilize within four years, so that Williams offers 700 courses and UPenn offers 2500 isn't particularly meaningful unless you want to do cutting edge graduate level coursework (which most students at either school do not).

Williams, as a school with a 6:1 student to faculty ratio (vs. Penn's 8:1), a distinctive Oxford style tutorial program offering 2:1 student to faculty classes, and an honors program with a known track record of producing more academics per capita than UPenn (12th nationally vs. 90th), offers potentially the strongest quality of undergraduate education you can get in any college in America. 58% of UPenn classes are under 20 students, compared to 75% of Williams classes. Williams professors' top priority is their undergraduates; the academic advising and individualized mentorship is unbeatable. 80-90% of Williams students applying get into med school in a given year, whereas UPenn has historically ranged from 71-83%. In fact, Williams is a stronger feeder than UPenn for students enrolling at top medical schools per capita (though UPenn still ranks top 20 nationally).

Williams does all this while still doing comparably for feeding into Wall Street and top business schools at comparable rates to UPenn, in case you want to make an argument that Wharton has more professionally oriented students.

I don’t get the LAC obsession with PhD admission. Grad schools are disgustingly predatory and often toxic. I’d rather a kid get a job then delay it by 6 years.

+1, I graduated from a t3 lac and almost every professor tried pushing grad school at some point. Years out now, it doesn’t seem to offer much for these young undergrads who are just scared to get their first job. I’d much rather a school prepare its students to go into the real world than put them through the academic hazing camp we call grad school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^also Penn is not more prestigious, not at all. They are equivalent in prestige.

At Quakers day there were lots of Asian families. Certain communities like Asian immigrants view UPenn as much more prestigious than Williams, which is relative unknown outside of the U.S. (or even to most of the U.S.). Not to say this is right but it is what it is in certain communities.

Most MC American families of any race would not even know the existence of Williams. This does not have anything to do with race or Asian immigrants.

Yes, it does. It's ridiculously easy to tell when tiger moms post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^also Penn is not more prestigious, not at all. They are equivalent in prestige.

At Quakers day there were lots of Asian families. Certain communities like Asian immigrants view UPenn as much more prestigious than Williams, which is relative unknown outside of the U.S. (or even to most of the U.S.). Not to say this is right but it is what it is in certain communities.

Most MC American families of any race would not even know the existence of Williams. This does not have anything to do with race or Asian immigrants.

Most MC families know a lot about Penn State and nothing about Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^also Penn is not more prestigious, not at all. They are equivalent in prestige.

Haha this made me laugh. Not at all. Penn is miles ahead of Williams.

No, Penn State is far ahead of Williams in terms of exposure. Penn is just another school to the vast majority of the country. Unexposed poorly informed foreign families without a real understanding of the US education landscape do have an unnatural obsession with the Ivy League. Unnatural because they feel that UCs are equal choices in their social circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense to choose between Williams and Dartmouth for premed. Penn v Williams doesn’t make sense. Penn has a ton more resources.

Alas it does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^also Penn is not more prestigious, not at all. They are equivalent in prestige.

At Quakers day there were lots of Asian families. Certain communities like Asian immigrants view UPenn as much more prestigious than Williams, which is relative unknown outside of the U.S. (or even to most of the U.S.). Not to say this is right but it is what it is in certain communities.

Most MC American families of any race would not even know the existence of Williams. This does not have anything to do with race or Asian immigrants.

While this is true of Williams, I'd bet its also true of Penn. To the extent most people have heard of the University of Pennsylvania, they are probably thinking of Penn State.

[Anonymous]

Successful med students demonstrate curiosity, integrity, empathy, growth mindset, humor, kindness, discipline, maturity, and ability to connect with all types of people. choose a college that will nurture these characteristics and the rest will follow. i find athletes and students who have worked in service jobs do particularly well.

- harvard med clerkship director

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn for sure. No one seriously thinks you have more opportunity at Williams unless they’re a lousy student

obviously there are far more opportunities at UPenn, but it's not about quantity, it's about quality. Williams has more opportunities than anyone attending could possibly utilize within four years, so that Williams offers 700 courses and UPenn offers 2500 isn't particularly meaningful unless you want to do cutting edge graduate level coursework (which most students at either school do not).

Williams, as a school with a 6:1 student to faculty ratio (vs. Penn's 8:1), a distinctive Oxford style tutorial program offering 2:1 student to faculty classes, and an honors program with a known track record of producing more academics per capita than UPenn (12th nationally vs. 90th), offers potentially the strongest quality of undergraduate education you can get in any college in America. 58% of UPenn classes are under 20 students, compared to 75% of Williams classes. Williams professors' top priority is their undergraduates; the academic advising and individualized mentorship is unbeatable. 80-90% of Williams students applying get into med school in a given year, whereas UPenn has historically ranged from 71-83%. In fact, Williams is a stronger feeder than UPenn for students enrolling at top medical schools per capita (though UPenn still ranks top 20 nationally).

Williams does all this while still doing comparably for feeding into Wall Street and top business schools at comparable rates to UPenn, in case you want to make an argument that Wharton has more professionally oriented students.

I don’t get the LAC obsession with PhD admission. Grad schools are disgustingly predatory and often toxic. I’d rather a kid get a job then delay it by 6 years.

+1, I graduated from a t3 lac and almost every professor tried pushing grad school at some point. Years out now, it doesn’t seem to offer much for these young undergrads who are just scared to get their first job. I’d much rather a school prepare its students to go into the real world than put them through the academic hazing camp we call grad school

Why are you replying to your own post? Because you're insecure and suffering a bit of cognitive dissonance, that's why.