Help me solve this family relationship paradox

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being estranged for the reasons you describe is dumb and overdramatic and that there are a lot of therapists out there convincing people to break ties with loved ones over feelings that at the end of the day are really invalid and don't merit such dramatic action.

Really? You're going to stop talking to parents because you thought they were "emotionally unavailable?" And you think you're the mature one? What idiot therapist suggested you do that?

Now, I'm going on your word here that there was no actual abuse. That's a different story. But, my GOD, the navel gazing with some young people today. Because, yes, what you're describing is an inevitable paradox of being so self-centered. "Boohoo, you didn't validate my feelings enough when I was a child so I'm to call you on it and if you don't fulfill your role in my little fantasy to my satisfaction even if it hurts your own feelings, I'm going to cut you off."

Talk about emotional manipulation.

Having emotionally unavailable parents itself is very very painful, you don't know because you never experienced it. It is like drowning and crying for your parents to give you a hand and pull you up, but they watch you and sat there in silence.

Or, you're like an endless vat of need and no amount of validation would ever be enough. You're still acting like this as an adult.

Yes, they have their own emotions and needs. It's almost like you've just realized this for the first time.

"Emotionally unavailable." That's usually a defense mechanism when someone is an emotional vampire. The petulance of estrangement for this is beyond the pale. Get help for your own defects and stop blaming others.

OP here, I think you have some valid points, I can see that some children are emotionally needy. But you need to know there valid situations where the parents are horrible parents that lack the emotional capacity to love their children or anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being estranged for the reasons you describe is dumb and overdramatic and that there are a lot of therapists out there convincing people to break ties with loved ones over feelings that at the end of the day are really invalid and don't merit such dramatic action.

Really? You're going to stop talking to parents because you thought they were "emotionally unavailable?" And you think you're the mature one? What idiot therapist suggested you do that?

Now, I'm going on your word here that there was no actual abuse. That's a different story. But, my GOD, the navel gazing with some young people today. Because, yes, what you're describing is an inevitable paradox of being so self-centered. "Boohoo, you didn't validate my feelings enough when I was a child so I'm to call you on it and if you don't fulfill your role in my little fantasy to my satisfaction even if it hurts your own feelings, I'm going to cut you off."

Talk about emotional manipulation.

Having emotionally unavailable parents itself is very very painful, you don't know because you never experienced it. It is like drowning and crying for your parents to give you a hand and pull you up, but they watch you and sat there in silence.

Or, you're like an endless vat of need and no amount of validation would ever be enough. You're still acting like this as an adult.

Yes, they have their own emotions and needs. It's almost like you've just realized this for the first time.

"Emotionally unavailable." That's usually a defense mechanism when someone is an emotional vampire. The petulance of estrangement for this is beyond the pale. Get help for your own defects and stop blaming others.

OP here, I think you have some valid points, I can see that some children are emotionally needy. But you need to know there valid situations where the parents are horrible parents that lack the emotional capacity to love their children or anyone.

Is it capacity to love or capacity to love how you wanted to be loved? I don't think it's the same. My parents were neglectful in some ways, but I also know they love me. To me loving my children = not being neglectful in any way (probably to a fault, I do too much!) as a reaction to that. But I acknowledge my parents love me very much and thought how they acted was fine and normal even though it wasn't. The most I have gotten from them has been a (not prompted by me) small admission of regret over one of those neglectful instances, which funnily enough did not register as being a big one to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being estranged for the reasons you describe is dumb and overdramatic and that there are a lot of therapists out there convincing people to break ties with loved ones over feelings that at the end of the day are really invalid and don't merit such dramatic action.

Really? You're going to stop talking to parents because you thought they were "emotionally unavailable?" And you think you're the mature one? What idiot therapist suggested you do that?

Now, I'm going on your word here that there was no actual abuse. That's a different story. But, my GOD, the navel gazing with some young people today. Because, yes, what you're describing is an inevitable paradox of being so self-centered. "Boohoo, you didn't validate my feelings enough when I was a child so I'm to call you on it and if you don't fulfill your role in my little fantasy to my satisfaction even if it hurts your own feelings, I'm going to cut you off."

Talk about emotional manipulation.

Having emotionally unavailable parents itself is very very painful, you don't know because you never experienced it. It is like drowning and crying for your parents to give you a hand and pull you up, but they watch you and sat there in silence.

Or, you're like an endless vat of need and no amount of validation would ever be enough. You're still acting like this as an adult.

Yes, they have their own emotions and needs. It's almost like you've just realized this for the first time.

"Emotionally unavailable." That's usually a defense mechanism when someone is an emotional vampire. The petulance of estrangement for this is beyond the pale. Get help for your own defects and stop blaming others.

OP here, I think you have some valid points, I can see that some children are emotionally needy. But you need to know there valid situations where the parents are horrible parents that lack the emotional capacity to love their children or anyone.

Is it capacity to love or capacity to love how you wanted to be loved? I don't think it's the same. My parents were neglectful in some ways, but I also know they love me. To me loving my children = not being neglectful in any way (probably to a fault, I do too much!) as a reaction to that. But I acknowledge my parents love me very much and thought how they acted was fine and normal even though it wasn't. The most I have gotten from them has been a (not prompted by me) small admission of regret over one of those neglectful instances, which funnily enough did not register as being a big one to me.

small admission of regret over one of those neglectful instances? - that is huge. If my parents did that, I would be over the moon and love them so much more. Now imagine if you did prompt them to on a specific instance (or in general), their face turned immediately and become unrecognizable and just stormed out, and chose NC with you over this? or gave a long speech about how none of what you said is true, that you must have dreamed of it and are now using a dream to viciously attack them? Oh, you think your parents would never? LOL, I thought so too, and then they blew my mind, it's like they are totally different people that I thought they were, who are they?! Almost feel like they have been possessed by some evil spirit the moment you said the slightly thing that made them appear less perfect of parents they want their church friends to view them as. Consider yourself super lucky. - OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think being estranged for the reasons you describe is dumb and overdramatic and that there are a lot of therapists out there convincing people to break ties with loved ones over feelings that at the end of the day are really invalid and don't merit such dramatic action.

Really? You're going to stop talking to parents because you thought they were "emotionally unavailable?" And you think you're the mature one? What idiot therapist suggested you do that?

Now, I'm going on your word here that there was no actual abuse. That's a different story. But, my GOD, the navel gazing with some young people today. Because, yes, what you're describing is an inevitable paradox of being so self-centered. "Boohoo, you didn't validate my feelings enough when I was a child so I'm to call you on it and if you don't fulfill your role in my little fantasy to my satisfaction even if it hurts your own feelings, I'm going to cut you off."

Talk about emotional manipulation.

Having emotionally unavailable parents itself is very very painful, you don't know because you never experienced it. It is like drowning and crying for your parents to give you a hand and pull you up, but they watch you and sat there in silence.

Or, you're like an endless vat of need and no amount of validation would ever be enough. You're still acting like this as an adult.

Yes, they have their own emotions and needs. It's almost like you've just realized this for the first time.

"Emotionally unavailable." That's usually a defense mechanism when someone is an emotional vampire. The petulance of estrangement for this is beyond the pale. Get help for your own defects and stop blaming others.

OP here, I think you have some valid points, I can see that some children are emotionally needy. But you need to know there valid situations where the parents are horrible parents that lack the emotional capacity to love their children or anyone.

Is it capacity to love or capacity to love how you wanted to be loved? I don't think it's the same. My parents were neglectful in some ways, but I also know they love me. To me loving my children = not being neglectful in any way (probably to a fault, I do too much!) as a reaction to that. But I acknowledge my parents love me very much and thought how they acted was fine and normal even though it wasn't. The most I have gotten from them has been a (not prompted by me) small admission of regret over one of those neglectful instances, which funnily enough did not register as being a big one to me.

small admission of regret over one of those neglectful instances? - that is huge. If my parents did that, I would be over the moon and love them so much more. Now imagine if you did prompt them to on a specific instance (or in general), their face turned immediately and become unrecognizable and just stormed out, and chose NC with you over this? or gave a long speech about how none of what you said is true, that you must have dreamed of it and are now using a dream to viciously attack them? Oh, you think your parents would never? LOL, I thought so too, and then they blew my mind, it's like they are totally different people that I thought they were, who are they?! Almost feel like they have been possessed by some evil spirit the moment you said the slightly thing that made them appear less perfect of parents they want their church friends to view them as. Consider yourself super lucky. - OP

I can imagine it, because I am sure I'd get that reaction if *I* brought it up. It's a mix of pride, fear, not being able to face one's own shortcomings and basically hearing that their entire parenting was a failure...They just could not hear what you had to say and continue on as the people they thought they were, so they glitched and said the very opposite of what you needed to hear. But you can't undo what happened, and it sounds like you perhaps needed to bring it up and so you did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

DP. For me, it was the opposite. I was very flexible before I had kids and let things go all the time. Now, as I have kids, and as they are now teens, I see how inappropriately my mom responded to things and how I would never ever talk to them the way she talked and still talks with me.

I know she was doing the best she could but I also don't see any remorse or not even that, even a little understanding. It's just always that I'm too sensitive, too this, too that. Calling herself a horrible mother and that she should leave anytime I did something "bad". So, we have a cordial relationship but nothing more. She does not know how to resolve conflicts and only knows how to go back to her familiar patterns, which are very triggering for me.

She is always hurt that I don't share more of my life with her. I absolutely would if she would do a little self reflection. It took a long while to get myself to a good place on this. I can't feel guilty when the solution is so easy and she's not willing to engage at all on it. She is a good grandmother, and I'm thankful for that. Such is life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

DP. For me, it was the opposite. I was very flexible before I had kids and let things go all the time. Now, as I have kids, and as they are now teens, I see how inappropriately my mom responded to things and how I would never ever talk to them the way she talked and still talks with me.

I know she was doing the best she could but I also don't see any remorse or not even that, even a little understanding. It's just always that I'm too sensitive, too this, too that. Calling herself a horrible mother and that she should leave anytime I did something "bad". So, we have a cordial relationship but nothing more. She does not know how to resolve conflicts and only knows how to go back to her familiar patterns, which are very triggering for me.

She is always hurt that I don't share more of my life with her. I absolutely would if she would do a little self reflection. It took a long while to get myself to a good place on this. I can't feel guilty when the solution is so easy and she's not willing to engage at all on it. She is a good grandmother, and I'm thankful for that. Such is life.

I resonate with this, the only thing they need to do is say a simple sorry, or just "we never wanted to hurt you", something like that, but they refuse to, and quite a opposite, start attacking you and making you feel like shit, they try so hard to convince you that no only they do not love you, but also you do not deserve any love. It's fine if that's true (there are shitty child of course), but it's not true, and before all this, they've always been so "oh we love you so much, we miss you so much, we are so proud of you". They have a simple solution, but they would not use it, they chose NC because that apparently was the easier thing to do, and a way to preserve their God-loving image at their church. Who are these people?!

Keep being cordial and do LC, nothing else will work. I guess. - OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

You feel attacked, because you are one of those parents. Funny how you meantioned "weird therapy talk" whatever you meant by that. My parents also think that mental health is a hoax, that mentally ill people are just weak, that they just need to toughen up. After one of their children committed suicide, they acted "no clue" what happened. No clue why their child killed himself. Stop acting like them or you can speak for them. You have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t understand in these situations is other than clear abuse, which is not the experience for the majority of people, why are you trusting that your interpretation of a situation is correct? We look at things through the lens of where we are at. What 10 year old is correct that, “mom loves you best?” I feel so much of this is adults not willing to think maybe their child self is having a child like response/remembrance? Do none of you have kids? Do none of you see the outsized emotional responses to small situations? But all your remembrances were/are accurate? And you say the parents are the Narcissists 😂

Yep. FWIW, I have a good relationship with my adult daughter, but I am amazed how differently she remembers certain things and how, as a child, she was oblivious to lots of stuff that was going on. Like she was told that the reason her social life is curtailed is that mom is practically bed ridden and recovering from a surgery … but moms are invincible, right? There is no way mom couldn’t walk for a while, right?

[Anonymous]

The past is the past, you cannot change it. I look at how I'm treated now as well as my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

No, because my cold Austrian mother would never show any emotion like that one way or another. She can sort of play-act at being loving, with her friends, or with neighbors, for short periods around them. but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have it in her. Or she does, but it's an effort for her to show it, so she just doesn't. Friends and neighbors comment on how lovely and pleasant and nice she is, and she is on the surface, but then once the audience is gone, she is just a pretty unemotional person who wants things the way she wants them and has a sort of script to how she thinks the day is going to go, like a school teacher, and she carries out that script without much emotion or without much back and forth discussion, again sort of like a school teacher. Outwardly pleasant, but never going to budge from the plan and not going to respond emotionally to anything, good or bad, that her child throws at her that day. A lot of "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way". or "well this is the plan for dinner and that's that" or "you sound angry but this is how we are going to spend the day" and so on. Truly, like a teacher with her class of students- detached, keeping things moving, never cruel but also never particularly loving. I'm not sure she ever yelled. She also never cried, or laughed joyfully with us, or even told us that she loved us. I'm sure she did love us, but I don't think it was in her nature to ever say it out loud.

She was like that as a parent and she continues to be like that as a grandparent.

But again- I take this info and I raise my own kids differently, and I don't see the point in rehashing any of this with my mom. She is who she is. My kids don't spend much time with her because she isn't really interested. And that's fine. Probably better!