Dad thinks DS17 is a loser

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what’s going on with your son? It sounds like things went pretty far downhill. As a parent of a kid who took a really bad turn starting in HS, it can be really demoralizing as a parent and hope waxes and wanes. My spouse and I used to always say it’s a good thing we tended to be on the opposite ends of the emotional roller coaster so that we could support each other.

And, there are plenty of things that kids do that would make me feel like they are a loser. Heroin or fentanyl use, violence, other illegal activity, bullying other kids, sexually assaulting someone. If it were my child doing those things or even on the road to doing them and I couldn’t talk to my spouse about that, I’d feel like I didn’t have a real partner.

Definitely none of that! I'd have no issue with the strong language if that was the case! Our son is just unmotivated, extremely lazy and lacks any personality. DH also does the bare minimum when it comes to parenting and engaging with him and I'm frustrated hearing his resentment when he doesn't do anything to meaningfully engage with him. Everything is reactive and a little too late. I see the same traits in DH that I see in DS. I think they both need intensive therapy!!

So your husband doesn't like himself and sees in your son these same traits. Common, unfortunately, and can permanently ruin this relationship. Get your DH to a GOOD family therapist immediately. I would make him go before dragging son into it. This is 100% on your husband to recognize and correct.

No, OP doesn't like either her DH or her DS and sees those negative traits in both of them.

[Anonymous]

OP your post represents what SO MANY WOMEN (in male/female relationships) have to deal with: where we have our own concerns and fears, but then our DH says something like "Our son is a loser" and we have to both process our own immediate horror and heartbreak, while also trying to figure out what to say to our DH's to help them be more patient or understanding, while also being worried about our kid, while also being exhausted (emotionally and physically), and no one is there in that moment to look out for us. We're looking out for everyone else, and trying to keep our DH's from making the whole situation even worse by giving up on our kid.

That said, I think in that moment what I've said to my DH is (and it matters GREATLY what your DH's own family history is - if the definite answer is yes to the following question, this is not a winning strategy!) but I said to my DH "Wow, did your parents give up on you every time you were in a funk or lost your focus or seemed depressed? There is a reason raising teenagers is hard as hell, we're experiencing some of this, and it sucks, but it's common and we need to figure out what else we can do to get DS back on track. It's literally our jobs!"

OP how would some version of that go over on your DH? Again, if DH has a really bad childhood/teen history with his parents, then maybe skip the first part and focus on how if parents give up on their kids, it's almost like a death sentence for them when they're really just being kids.

And then I have all the regular questions for you OP, like what is your son saying about why he's not trying and seems down/total lacking energy? I assume you've asked him, what is he saying? And have you talked to his doctor/pediatrician if still going to them? Have you talked to the high school counselor about what's happening and asked for advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what’s going on with your son? It sounds like things went pretty far downhill. As a parent of a kid who took a really bad turn starting in HS, it can be really demoralizing as a parent and hope waxes and wanes. My spouse and I used to always say it’s a good thing we tended to be on the opposite ends of the emotional roller coaster so that we could support each other.

And, there are plenty of things that kids do that would make me feel like they are a loser. Heroin or fentanyl use, violence, other illegal activity, bullying other kids, sexually assaulting someone. If it were my child doing those things or even on the road to doing them and I couldn’t talk to my spouse about that, I’d feel like I didn’t have a real partner.

Definitely none of that! I'd have no issue with the strong language if that was the case! Our son is just unmotivated, extremely lazy and lacks any personality. DH also does the bare minimum when it comes to parenting and engaging with him and I'm frustrated hearing his resentment when he doesn't do anything to meaningfully engage with him. Everything is reactive and a little too late. I see the same traits in DH that I see in DS. I think they both need intensive therapy!!

OP you haven't said WHY DS is so unmotivated and lazy. Has he always been that way? It's just developed recently? Either way, what have you tried to motivate him? He's 17, if nothing works what professional advice have YOU sought about what to do with him? Explaining all of this would really help others here give you better advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 boys. The most fraught time between them and their dad was always between the ages of 16-18. This seems to be when dad of boy anxiety comes out the most even if they were oblivious to the boys before this.

I only have girls so this is really interesting. And totally relevant to OP's situation. It sounds like a common thing, I wonder what the psychology behind it is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 boys. The most fraught time between them and their dad was always between the ages of 16-18. This seems to be when dad of boy anxiety comes out the most even if they were oblivious to the boys before this.

I only have girls so this is really interesting. And totally relevant to OP's situation. It sounds like a common thing, I wonder what the psychology behind it is?

Dp. It is absolutely developmentally appropriate for dc to separate from their parents and try to differentiate themselves at this age, even in ways that might seem dysfunctional, and awful. It’s called soiling the nest. There is no reason to pathologize it or to pathologize a parent privately expressing a momentary expression about it. Dh should be reminded that this is a normal stage.

[Anonymous]

It is a parent's job to look for the best in their children and seek to bring it out. When parents get rigid ideas about what kids should be like and reject their kids for failing to live up to that rigid expectation, they are failing as parents.

Your DH is being immature. This is his failure, not your son's. But it will hurt them both. I have two parents who never saw the best of me and viewed me instead as a disappointment instead of seeing what is wonderful about me. I have to work every single day to make up for that deficit because I grew up with such low self esteem and rejection.

People like this should not have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 boys. The most fraught time between them and their dad was always between the ages of 16-18. This seems to be when dad of boy anxiety comes out the most even if they were oblivious to the boys before this.

I only have girls so this is really interesting. And totally relevant to OP's situation. It sounds like a common thing, I wonder what the psychology behind it is?

Because they are physically becoming men, very quickly, which freaks out dads. They remember themselves at that age and know what’s ahead for them. And it reminds dad that he is getting old, like his own father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because your husband thinks your son is a "loser" doesn't mean he doesn't like or love him. Lots of losers are liked or loved.

Sometimes kids disappoint. It's ok to think that way. To your husband's credit, he told YOU he thinks your son is a loser--he didn't tell HIM.

Your husband could have expressed it better but it’s ok to discuss your feelings candidly with your spouse. Work together to fix it.
I have a kid who dropped out of college that is hugely disappointing to me. Doesn’t mean I don’t love them but they’re certainly not winning at life.

[Anonymous]

I think your dad telling you that is a whole lot worse than a spouse confiding in you about a child! Sounds like there is more to the story “disappointment after disappointment”. I don’t think this is your thing to fix. Sounds like your dh is addressing things in therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is one emotion from which relationships rarely recover: contempt.

I would raise this directly with your husband, as calmly as possible. Writing someone off at 17 is a tragic error as a parent. The consequences can be devastating. Your DH needs to sort himself out. Quickly.

Criticism and frustration are normal. Contempt? Less so.

This whole thread expresses contempt: for the husband. As usual, misandry is the predominant response from DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what’s going on with your son? It sounds like things went pretty far downhill. As a parent of a kid who took a really bad turn starting in HS, it can be really demoralizing as a parent and hope waxes and wanes. My spouse and I used to always say it’s a good thing we tended to be on the opposite ends of the emotional roller coaster so that we could support each other.

And, there are plenty of things that kids do that would make me feel like they are a loser. Heroin or fentanyl use, violence, other illegal activity, bullying other kids, sexually assaulting someone. If it were my child doing those things or even on the road to doing them and I couldn’t talk to my spouse about that, I’d feel like I didn’t have a real partner.

Definitely none of that! I'd have no issue with the strong language if that was the case! Our son is just unmotivated, extremely lazy and lacks any personality. DH also does the bare minimum when it comes to parenting and engaging with him and I'm frustrated hearing his resentment when he doesn't do anything to meaningfully engage with him. Everything is reactive and a little too late. I see the same traits in DH that I see in DS. I think they both need intensive therapy!!

So you think DS is a loser just like your DH does?!?!

At least DH is in therapy. He may also believe he himself is a loser and is transferring it. I’d give him some grace, since if you read this aloud to DH he could become as mad as you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 boys. The most fraught time between them and their dad was always between the ages of 16-18. This seems to be when dad of boy anxiety comes out the most even if they were oblivious to the boys before this.

I only have girls so this is really interesting. And totally relevant to OP's situation. It sounds like a common thing, I wonder what the psychology behind it is?

Because they are physically becoming men, very quickly, which freaks out dads. They remember themselves at that age and know what’s ahead for them. And it reminds dad that he is getting old, like his own father.

And not universal. My son certainly butts heads with his Dad. But I can see so clearly how important that relationship is to my son’s development. My husband is doing a great job being present, offering commentary in language my son can process, harassing him but also knowing when to back off. Working through the disrespect, the bouts of laziness, the realization that your son is going to be who he is going to be and not all the impossible hopes you might have had for him - it’s hard but helping your kid navigate it is a Dad’s job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yikes. The only example you gave of your DS's behavior is choosing not to do fall sports. Just because he doesn't have the same interests as your DH doesn't make his interests wrong. And if your DH can't see that, that's a massive problem that would make me question my future with him.

NP.

Is DS otherwise socially engaged and happy? Many young men are withdrawing and then falling down the rabbit hole of misogyny and toxic masculinity.

Might be worth watching the we’ll-made and excellent work on Netflix, “Adolescents,” to learn more about this danger to our youth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one emotion from which relationships rarely recover: contempt.

I would raise this directly with your husband, as calmly as possible. Writing someone off at 17 is a tragic error as a parent. The consequences can be devastating. Your DH needs to sort himself out. Quickly.

Criticism and frustration are normal. Contempt? Less so.

This whole thread expresses contempt: for the husband. As usual, misandry is the predominant response from DCUM.

DP. No, this whole thread expresses extreme overreaction and catastrophizing, as almost every DCUM thread does. And of course the most sane response is 'everyone should go to therapy!!' as if adding in some weekly pricey meeting for everyone is going to fix everything (which is not so broken in the first place- teens are hard, kids can disappoint but still grow up to be decent human beings, and parents can have feelings they express to each other and it is not 'abusive' and in need of fixing).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because your husband thinks your son is a "loser" doesn't mean he doesn't like or love him. Lots of losers are liked or loved.

Sometimes kids disappoint. It's ok to think that way. To your husband's credit, he told YOU he thinks your son is a loser--he didn't tell HIM.

The man deserves no credit. The word is an insult. Something bullies say. Trump uses the insult all the time and he’s not a good man.

You can say you’re disappointed in decisions your kid makes but sports? Who cares? He’s 17 and should decide if he wants to play games or not. Husband’s probably a big fat slob who needs to but out on this decision.

No that’s you boo