When Caregiver Needs Care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, think OP's idea is brilliant. The point where FIL can't take care of MIL may come from FIL declining and not MIL. Even if his current medical issue is likely to resolve favorably, he could end up in the hospital or worse for something else at any time.

The more both siblings know about both of their needs, the better. OP's plan seems like a great test run for and maybe ultimately can get FIL to see having some breaks is okay/MIL may do perfectly fine without him occasionally. (She will do better with the DH/sibling the more she gets used to it, probably.) Or you ease him into occasional respite care, etc.

I see the thinking that a worse time is coming so save your energy now as counterproductive. Higher needs are coming one way or the other, so best to ease into it and gain as much information/experience as possible now. This will help set up or rule out different strategies, and buy in from OP's husband will get him directly involved in learning what everyone needs now to be able to best serve the decline when it does happen.

FIL could be one fall/pneumonia/Covid instance away from months in the hospital and rehabilitation. He's not fully accepting that yet. Having seen parents decline, the more information and options and knowledge and experience you can have in place sooner the better. That will mean less stress when the acute emergency comes.

OP back and thanks, you understand.

The Hackman deaths have given me anxiety. I could completely imagine a scenario where my FIL would refuse to hire any outside help and think he can DIY. He is one medical crisis away from leaving MIL completely alone.

I see DH complicit in denial of severity of his mother’s (and to a lesser degree his father’s) physical and mental decline. Precisely because my ILs have always done everything together (even in their younger days) FIL sees no reason to change this so it’s duo grocery shopping, errand running g and doctor appointments.

This is a great way to be certain that MIL is never left alone but becoming problematic. Recently FIL dropped MIL curbside and asked her to go in and wait while he parked the car. In the five minutes that elapsed, MIL, wandered well past the restaurant. Or, while loading the car for a trip out of town, MIL unpacked her luggage and stowed the luggage away. FIL had to repack everything.

You cannot save people from themselves. Let your DH handle this. Although, if you need to tell your husband to stop being a jackass and help more, you can tell him that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, think OP's idea is brilliant. The point where FIL can't take care of MIL may come from FIL declining and not MIL. Even if his current medical issue is likely to resolve favorably, he could end up in the hospital or worse for something else at any time.

The more both siblings know about both of their needs, the better. OP's plan seems like a great test run for and maybe ultimately can get FIL to see having some breaks is okay/MIL may do perfectly fine without him occasionally. (She will do better with the DH/sibling the more she gets used to it, probably.) Or you ease him into occasional respite care, etc.

I see the thinking that a worse time is coming so save your energy now as counterproductive. Higher needs are coming one way or the other, so best to ease into it and gain as much information/experience as possible now. This will help set up or rule out different strategies, and buy in from OP's husband will get him directly involved in learning what everyone needs now to be able to best serve the decline when it does happen.

FIL could be one fall/pneumonia/Covid instance away from months in the hospital and rehabilitation. He's not fully accepting that yet. Having seen parents decline, the more information and options and knowledge and experience you can have in place sooner the better. That will mean less stress when the acute emergency comes.

OP back and thanks, you understand.

The Hackman deaths have given me anxiety. I could completely imagine a scenario where my FIL would refuse to hire any outside help and think he can DIY. He is one medical crisis away from leaving MIL completely alone.

I see DH complicit in denial of severity of his mother’s (and to a lesser degree his father’s) physical and mental decline. Precisely because my ILs have always done everything together (even in their younger days) FIL sees no reason to change this so it’s duo grocery shopping, errand running g and doctor appointments.

This is a great way to be certain that MIL is never left alone but becoming problematic. Recently FIL dropped MIL curbside and asked her to go in and wait while he parked the car. In the five minutes that elapsed, MIL, wandered well past the restaurant. Or, while loading the car for a trip out of town, MIL unpacked her luggage and stowed the luggage away. FIL had to repack everything.

I think it was here people reminded me you protect the world from them (take car keys if not safe to drive), but you cannot protect them from themselves if deemed legally capable of making their own decisions. The Hackmans died on their own terms. The wife was young for that, but he lived to be what 94? He was at his home with his animals. It's very hard when they don't cooperate and you learn to accept they may die in a way you find unacceptable and avoidable. I had to explain this to one of my parents who refused to be in the right setting.

My family tells the strange story of how heroic my aunt was saving grandma from herself so she could live until age 97-miserable and wanting to die for about 20 of those years, but we'll ignore that. Grandma wanted to refuse treatment for illness after all her friends had passed away and she was sick of declining so aunt went to the ends of the earth to get her declared incapable of making her own decisions even though she didn't have dementia. I think she went the mental illness route. Then she forced treatment on her and forced every type of depression treatment on her including shock therapy-none of it helped much. Nothing brought this woman joy and when you visited it sucked the life out of you hearing how she could not appreciate anything in her life and wanted to die. She'd then criticize and insult you and try to make you as miserable as she was. Was my aunt heroic or just prolonging the torture for a woman who found joy in nothing and needed others to be unhappy as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, think OP's idea is brilliant. The point where FIL can't take care of MIL may come from FIL declining and not MIL. Even if his current medical issue is likely to resolve favorably, he could end up in the hospital or worse for something else at any time.

The more both siblings know about both of their needs, the better. OP's plan seems like a great test run for and maybe ultimately can get FIL to see having some breaks is okay/MIL may do perfectly fine without him occasionally. (She will do better with the DH/sibling the more she gets used to it, probably.) Or you ease him into occasional respite care, etc.

I see the thinking that a worse time is coming so save your energy now as counterproductive. Higher needs are coming one way or the other, so best to ease into it and gain as much information/experience as possible now. This will help set up or rule out different strategies, and buy in from OP's husband will get him directly involved in learning what everyone needs now to be able to best serve the decline when it does happen.

FIL could be one fall/pneumonia/Covid instance away from months in the hospital and rehabilitation. He's not fully accepting that yet. Having seen parents decline, the more information and options and knowledge and experience you can have in place sooner the better. That will mean less stress when the acute emergency comes.

OP back and thanks, you understand.

The Hackman deaths have given me anxiety. I could completely imagine a scenario where my FIL would refuse to hire any outside help and think he can DIY. He is one medical crisis away from leaving MIL completely alone.

I see DH complicit in denial of severity of his mother’s (and to a lesser degree his father’s) physical and mental decline. Precisely because my ILs have always done everything together (even in their younger days) FIL sees no reason to change this so it’s duo grocery shopping, errand running g and doctor appointments.

This is a great way to be certain that MIL is never left alone but becoming problematic. Recently FIL dropped MIL curbside and asked her to go in and wait while he parked the car. In the five minutes that elapsed, MIL, wandered well past the restaurant. Or, while loading the car for a trip out of town, MIL unpacked her luggage and stowed the luggage away. FIL had to repack everything.

I think it was here people reminded me you protect the world from them (take car keys if not safe to drive), but you cannot protect them from themselves if deemed legally capable of making their own decisions. The Hackmans died on their own terms. The wife was young for that, but he lived to be what 94? He was at his home with his animals. It's very hard when they don't cooperate and you learn to accept they may die in a way you find unacceptable and avoidable. I had to explain this to one of my parents who refused to be in the right setting.

My family tells the strange story of how heroic my aunt was saving grandma from herself so she could live until age 97-miserable and wanting to die for about 20 of those years, but we'll ignore that. Grandma wanted to refuse treatment for illness after all her friends had passed away and she was sick of declining so aunt went to the ends of the earth to get her declared incapable of making her own decisions even though she didn't have dementia. I think she went the mental illness route. Then she forced treatment on her and forced every type of depression treatment on her including shock therapy-none of it helped much. Nothing brought this woman joy and when you visited it sucked the life out of you hearing how she could not appreciate anything in her life and wanted to die. She'd then criticize and insult you and try to make you as miserable as she was. Was my aunt heroic or just prolonging the torture for a woman who found joy in nothing and needed others to be unhappy as well?

I wrote the comment OP replies to and I'm not saying you should save someone from themselves, but OP can help DH see the reality of the situation which may feed into helping sibling see it if they don't and helping FIL see it.

OP and DH can research options for care for either of them now when the time comes so it's easier for FIL to make the best decisions for his wife or for the siblings to make the best decisions for MIL if Dad can't temporarily or permanently etc., etc. The siblings can point things out here or there like what if mom had wandered into traffic at the restaurant.

This doesn't have to be a swift takeover of all power from FIL. I'm advocating for facing reality and it should even include asking FIL their wishes when the time comes for more care even if you think it's already come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, for one, think OP's idea is brilliant. The point where FIL can't take care of MIL may come from FIL declining and not MIL. Even if his current medical issue is likely to resolve favorably, he could end up in the hospital or worse for something else at any time.

The more both siblings know about both of their needs, the better. OP's plan seems like a great test run for and maybe ultimately can get FIL to see having some breaks is okay/MIL may do perfectly fine without him occasionally. (She will do better with the DH/sibling the more she gets used to it, probably.) Or you ease him into occasional respite care, etc.

I see the thinking that a worse time is coming so save your energy now as counterproductive. Higher needs are coming one way or the other, so best to ease into it and gain as much information/experience as possible now. This will help set up or rule out different strategies, and buy in from OP's husband will get him directly involved in learning what everyone needs now to be able to best serve the decline when it does happen.

FIL could be one fall/pneumonia/Covid instance away from months in the hospital and rehabilitation. He's not fully accepting that yet. Having seen parents decline, the more information and options and knowledge and experience you can have in place sooner the better. That will mean less stress when the acute emergency comes.

OP back and thanks, you understand.

The Hackman deaths have given me anxiety. I could completely imagine a scenario where my FIL would refuse to hire any outside help and think he can DIY. He is one medical crisis away from leaving MIL completely alone.

I see DH complicit in denial of severity of his mother’s (and to a lesser degree his father’s) physical and mental decline. Precisely because my ILs have always done everything together (even in their younger days) FIL sees no reason to change this so it’s duo grocery shopping, errand running g and doctor appointments.

This is a great way to be certain that MIL is never left alone but becoming problematic. Recently FIL dropped MIL curbside and asked her to go in and wait while he parked the car. In the five minutes that elapsed, MIL, wandered well past the restaurant. Or, while loading the car for a trip out of town, MIL unpacked her luggage and stowed the luggage away. FIL had to repack everything.

I think it was here people reminded me you protect the world from them (take car keys if not safe to drive), but you cannot protect them from themselves if deemed legally capable of making their own decisions. The Hackmans died on their own terms. The wife was young for that, but he lived to be what 94? He was at his home with his animals. It's very hard when they don't cooperate and you learn to accept they may die in a way you find unacceptable and avoidable. I had to explain this to one of my parents who refused to be in the right setting.

My family tells the strange story of how heroic my aunt was saving grandma from herself so she could live until age 97-miserable and wanting to die for about 20 of those years, but we'll ignore that. Grandma wanted to refuse treatment for illness after all her friends had passed away and she was sick of declining so aunt went to the ends of the earth to get her declared incapable of making her own decisions even though she didn't have dementia. I think she went the mental illness route. Then she forced treatment on her and forced every type of depression treatment on her including shock therapy-none of it helped much. Nothing brought this woman joy and when you visited it sucked the life out of you hearing how she could not appreciate anything in her life and wanted to die. She'd then criticize and insult you and try to make you as miserable as she was. Was my aunt heroic or just prolonging the torture for a woman who found joy in nothing and needed others to be unhappy as well?

I wrote the comment OP replies to and I'm not saying you should save someone from themselves, but OP can help DH see the reality of the situation which may feed into helping sibling see it if they don't and helping FIL see it.

OP and DH can research options for care for either of them now when the time comes so it's easier for FIL to make the best decisions for his wife or for the siblings to make the best decisions for MIL if Dad can't temporarily or permanently etc., etc. The siblings can point things out here or there like what if mom had wandered into traffic at the restaurant.

This doesn't have to be a swift takeover of all power from FIL. I'm advocating for facing reality and it should even include asking FIL their wishes when the time comes for more care even if you think it's already come.

I agree. I skipped that step. With inlaws we could get everyone on board, with my parents it was a sh*t show and ended up being about making sure they didn't harm anyone.

[Anonymous]

11:42 back. Been thinking about you, OP. One thing I've noticed in my experience is once the caregiver hears something a few times, they start to almost think of it on their own. I've said a lot of things that get ideas started and then weeks later they say we need such-and-such that I originally mentioned.

I think a lot of it is likely FIL is simply continuing on as-is. Like he could just do whatever his wife needed for 40 or 50 years, so that's the default. He vowed to do it, even. Plus day-to-day she probably changes imperceptibly. You can see it because you don't see her all the time. Other types of care and getting help are not breaking his vows, but he doesn't see it that way, probably partially because he's so busy just doing stuff.

Anyway, I'd encourage you to keep sharing your ideas because you have a more removed perspective. You can also say a coworker or friend did X that really helped their parents to remove it even further. The world is also a lot different from when maybe his parents had needs. Healthcare is tough to navigate.

Also is MIL seeing the correct specialists/subspecialists?

[Anonymous]

PP: Also is MIL seeing the correct specialists/subspecialists?

OP back and no. Again, so frustrating. The entire family is in denial. FIL opted NOT to have any further testing done on MIL saying that it was too invasive (spinal tap was one such test) AND years ago MIL said she’d rather
end her existence than to get a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s. Her mother died of dementia.

So, FIL covered for her as long as he could and when he grew concerned, got her to a doctor under false pretenses (something like a a flu shot) and then by prior arrangement had the physician administer an MMSE baseline. MIL was shocked to have this suddenly given to her but nonetheless failed. This prompted the GP to advise further testing done and apparently MIL and FIL decided quickly that they’d go no further.

MIL says she “feels fine” and only admits to no longer driving. My MIL refuses to believe she has any sort of cognitive impairment and no one in the family is to mention Alzheimer’s or her astounding memory loss.

FIL is notoriously cheap and generally suspicious of any professional help or even public service. They’ve never had house cleaners, lawn service, exterminators nor any maintenance techs in their home-ever-for over 30 years. It would be an incredible leap for FIL to get MIL “outside” help (aide or visiting nurse) and we can’t even get him to look into adult day services.