getting 5 and 7 yo to listen without yelling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can whisper "go back to bed before I beat your @ss" and you can yell "go back to bed before I beat your @ss" and neither will matter if there is no consequence. If they get out of bed, you have to beat their butt. Now, I am not saying beat them.... it was an example but you have to give the consequence. All the morning stuff needs to be done the night before if possible or they do it before they eat. My kids backpacks are packed and around their chair before they sit down and eat at the table with that same chair. When they put their clothes on, they put their shoes on.

The last minute stuff is putting their lunchboxes in their backpack (they're mainly made the night before but I do things like rewarm the chicken or add something that would get soggy the night before while they eat breakfast), get on their gear to walk to school (we live in chicago so outdoor shoes / coats etc), and pick up anything they got out in their free time.

I agree on the consequence but haven't figured out one that works - very annoyingly (for this) the 7yo is pretty take it or leave it about both screen time and dessert

Hi OP, I posted about doing things before breakfast and problem solving. I used to live in Chicago, so I get the outdoor shoes/coat thing more now. The lunch piece, if you are going to do warming up or anything like that then I would just put the lunch in yourself. My 6 year old is in charge of making his lunch (with support) so I'm not someone that is just like - "do it for them", but realistically don't set yourself up with that if it is making it harder. just heat it up and slide it in the backpack. Then the only thing you're left with is shoes and jackets that are ideally by the door. Is it that they don't want to stop playing and leave? I would do the problem solving here. it is a very specific time, have them come up with ideas that will help. A timer, listening to a story/podcast on the walk to school, etc.

For bedtime, I really would recommend sitting down with them on the weekend (I see your husband is gone all week, that is REALLY hard, no wonder you are tired and getting to the point of yelling. I do too and I have my husband around a lot). You've got to sit down in a time of low stress and try to become a team again. Morning and bedtime convos at separate times. This isn't working well for us, what is going on for you at nighttime, and share what is going on for you. Have them come up with solutions, you come up with solutions. And together you agree to something. For example they might say "I'm not tired when you put us to bed! that's why I come out!" Then try to get them to come up with ideas: potentials are, have a flashlight in bed with some books, have a sleep story or podcast to listen to when bedtime first starts etc. Then you come up with a plan together and they will be much more bought in.

We also still use the hatch for our 6 year old with the red and green lights. He knows we control it but it still helps him to be clear on when it is ok to just get out of bed for fun and when he is at least supposed to be in bed.

[Anonymous]

Agree with checklists, alexa timers, and consequences. Or rewards if you prefer.

I have two kids with adhd and to this day (youngest is 9) have to physically walk them through getting ready. There is no way I could say "go get ready" and expect success. There is not even a way I could say "go pack your lunch and water bottle then put your shoes on" and expect it to happen. Instructions have to be singular and have to be within eyesight generally, so I can hand them their water bottles and say "fill these up now please" or hand them their shoes and tell them to put them on.

I just mention that because even if your kids are nuerotypical you could learn some strategies for how we deal with our kids who literally get distracted if they turn thier heads the wrong way. One thing at a time. Repeat it up to 3 times, calmly, with at least 30 seconds between prompts. Have a system for how to handle it if they dont respond.

I envy parents who have the ability to be hands off with their kids getting ready! Its not my reality.

[Anonymous]

Can there be an incentive on the way they get if you don't repeat yourself? Chocolate milk in cups or something? This was us until my kids decided they wanted to get to school early to get the (admittedly trash) breakfast items there. Now they completely self motivate with the more eager one helping the other along

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with checklists, alexa timers, and consequences. Or rewards if you prefer.

I have two kids with adhd and to this day (youngest is 9) have to physically walk them through getting ready. There is no way I could say "go get ready" and expect success. There is not even a way I could say "go pack your lunch and water bottle then put your shoes on" and expect it to happen. Instructions have to be singular and have to be within eyesight generally, so I can hand them their water bottles and say "fill these up now please" or hand them their shoes and tell them to put them on.

I just mention that because even if your kids are nuerotypical you could learn some strategies for how we deal with our kids who literally get distracted if they turn thier heads the wrong way. One thing at a time. Repeat it up to 3 times, calmly, with at least 30 seconds between prompts. Have a system for how to handle it if they dont respond.

I envy parents who have the ability to be hands off with their kids getting ready! Its not my reality.

I would not be surprised if my oldest has ADHD. We are currently waiting on a neuropsych eval and I do need to parent him that way. He has no issues at all at school (if anything hyper focused on every single thing at school which i guess can be a symptom also) but seems to be in his own distracted world a lot at home....hard to tell if he doesn't care to listen or really can't. Anyway, even if he does have the Dx, I probably won't medicate at this point since he's not having problems at school so I need a parenting solution overal. What is your system for how to handle it when they don't listen?

[Anonymous]

At that age, I let my kids have a couple of minutes of ipad time in the AM if they were completely dressed and ready to go, and done with their morning routine. So for example, if we needed to leave at 7:30, they could have ipad time on the couch at 7:20 if they were 100% ready to walk out the door. Alternatively, you could let them have some sort of treat/privilege in the car if they are ready on time- chocolate milk, a favorite non messy breakfast item, watch favorite show during the ride to school, etc. Whatever will make them be excited to get in the car.

My kids did better at that age with immediate rewards like above as opposed to things like sticker charts or promising something for later that day etc.

Bedtime is so hard. I really struggled with mine at those ages too. No advice.

[Anonymous]

If my kids don’t listen after I say it the first time, I physically help them. I do it with a smile on my face and make it fun. For example I’ll tell my dc to brush her teeth, if she doesn’t I pretend like I’m a “sugar bug” and chase her into the bathroom and brush her teeth. Yes it’s tiring but saying something 5-15 times is just frustrating for everyone involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with checklists, alexa timers, and consequences. Or rewards if you prefer.

I have two kids with adhd and to this day (youngest is 9) have to physically walk them through getting ready. There is no way I could say "go get ready" and expect success. There is not even a way I could say "go pack your lunch and water bottle then put your shoes on" and expect it to happen. Instructions have to be singular and have to be within eyesight generally, so I can hand them their water bottles and say "fill these up now please" or hand them their shoes and tell them to put them on.

I just mention that because even if your kids are nuerotypical you could learn some strategies for how we deal with our kids who literally get distracted if they turn thier heads the wrong way. One thing at a time. Repeat it up to 3 times, calmly, with at least 30 seconds between prompts. Have a system for how to handle it if they dont respond.

I envy parents who have the ability to be hands off with their kids getting ready! Its not my reality.

I would not be surprised if my oldest has ADHD. We are currently waiting on a neuropsych eval and I do need to parent him that way. He has no issues at all at school (if anything hyper focused on every single thing at school which i guess can be a symptom also) but seems to be in his own distracted world a lot at home....hard to tell if he doesn't care to listen or really can't. Anyway, even if he does have the Dx, I probably won't medicate at this point since he's not having problems at school so I need a parenting solution overal. What is your system for how to handle it when they don't listen?

The most helpful thing is to reframe what you are seeing. So instead of getting angry that he isnt listening, you realize his brain isnt capable of following that thread, and then you realize that yelling would never solve that, so youre less motivated to yell.

It doesn't make it any less frustrating but it does help you to be empathetic and to get curious about how to help them get past the issue.

Actual solutions that work for us are using a visual checklist. Keeping the routine exactly the same if possible, like dont tell them to get dressed first one day but eat breakfast first the next day. Give one instruction at a time and make sure it is clear, i.e., "take your dish to the sink", not "clean up". "Put your book inside your backpack" not "get your things ready". Im the poster above who said the object you are instructing about needs to be in eyesight. If I tell my child to put on his shoes, but his shoes are in the basement, he wont be successful getting there and remembering what he was supposed to do and actually doing it. So I set him up for success but first saying "i think your shoes are in the basement, please go look". Then 5 minutes later Ill walk downstairs and see him doing something else and say "there are your shoes, put them on". Praise when he gets it right the first time "awesome job listening, thank you for finding your shoes" instead of "why didnt you put your shoes on you never do anything right now we're late!"

Leave lots of space and time. Dont expect them to rush just because you want or need them to. When i tell my kids to hurry they slow down, i swear. I have also learned unfortunately I have to be present. I cant sit down and start checking my email, I have to stay engaged with them the whole process.

Its exhausting, but its far better than standing at the door yelling every day.

[Anonymous]

I never ask for anything twice, so for example of I say they need to use a fork and they do t, I take their plate. If I say stop kicking my seat and they do t, we turn around and go home, etc. For before school stuff like dressing themselves or putting shoes on, I ask them one time. If they do it, I say great job and give some encouragement. If they don’t, I step in and do it myself immediately. No drama and no big deal. Not ruining the morning over it. What I find is most of the time they are motivated to do it themselves. I think the key is to keep it positive and never get into a position where you’re asking multiple times.

If there is an opportunity to incentivize them I will also use that. As in, “yes you can have more berries but not until you are all the way dressed with shoes and water bottle, then you can have a few more.”

Mine are 3 and 6.

[Anonymous]

OP, mine are 4 and 6 and this has been a huge struggle. I started reading the Kazdin Method for defiant kids and though I have started fully implementing the strategies, I think it has already made a difference for the better. The basic idea is, reward and praise praise praise for good behavior. He goes into the whole checklist/sticker chart and how to do a reward system, but I have started with just praising any good behavior.

So for example, my 4 year old really struggles with staying in bed at bedtime and getting dressed in the morning. I tried telling at bedtime my expectation for him and how I know he is a big boy and can understand now why sleep is important and that I knew he could do it. He will still wander out of his room and I (along with everyone else in household) just try to ignore him. I don't yell at him and don't tell him to go back to bed in a menacing voice. When he starts wandering back to his room, I will say "good night. love you!" . Next morning, I praise him for everything he did right ("you did a great job not crying last night. Even though you wandered out a couple times, you went back by yourself! You are such a big boy!"). If he comes out of his room dressed, I enthusiastically praise him too. If he doesn't get dressed, I offer to help him and if he does any part of the dressing himself, like putting on his sweatshirt, I praise ("great job putting on that sweatshirt all by yourself!"). It really seems to be working. Just in the last couple weeks, bedtime has been much smoother and he has gotten dressed himself about 8 out of 10 times.

The game changer for me in reading that book is understanding that you cannot wait for PERFECT behavior to praise. You have to praise ANY behavior that is a movement in the right direction. And be specific about the praise. So another example, my 4 year old is in the habit of kicking me during time ins. I used to threaten him left and right and hold him down to stop the behavior and even when he did ultimately stop, I was still pissed. I still threaten him when he does it but the minute he stops, I praise him specifically for stopping the kicking (even in the middle of screaming tantrum), and it has really helped.

Another thing we started doing in the morning is telling them that they can have a small treat if they are ready to go on time (like a small piece of chocolate or chocolate chips). That means breakfast eaten, shoes and jackets on. That really seems to motivate them. Even then, I try to keep the tone positive. If a kid is throwing a tantrum in the morning, instead of saying "keep this up and you are not getting your treat" (which is what I used to say), I now say "come on, there's a treat waiting for you after all this. You can do it". The shift in tone seems to have a positive effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never ask for anything twice, so for example of I say they need to use a fork and they do t, I take their plate. If I say stop kicking my seat and they do t, we turn around and go home, etc. For before school stuff like dressing themselves or putting shoes on, I ask them one time. If they do it, I say great job and give some encouragement. If they don’t, I step in and do it myself immediately. No drama and no big deal. Not ruining the morning over it. What I find is most of the time they are motivated to do it themselves. I think the key is to keep it positive and never get into a position where you’re asking multiple times.

If there is an opportunity to incentivize them I will also use that. As in, “yes you can have more berries but not until you are all the way dressed with shoes and water bottle, then you can have a few more.”

Mine are 3 and 6.

This works with 3 year olds but not great advice for 7 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids respond really well to individual checklists. I found a template online. I let them create them with me on the computer and we would edit it each week.

This sounds like a great idea! Thanks for sharing

[Anonymous]

With behavior you have to name it to tame it, so sit down with the older kids and ask calmly what they get everything done until the last few minutes, and then brainstorm a solution together. I totally agree with doing everything before eating and having coat, shoes, and backpack by the door. Also point out that big kids get ready by following directions. Point out that you don’t like yelling and do so because you are frustrated and it’s not okay. Praise big time when they follow directions. Give directions one at a time. Hand them an index card to take upstairs that says TEETH, COAT, SHOES and tell them to bring it back for a marble in the jar and ten marbles is a trip for ice cream somewhere.

If they don’t get their shoes on the first time, you go physically to them, lead them to the shoes, and stand there while they put them on without extra comments. Until they get in the routine of doing it right away, plan extra time for you to do this. Accept that it will take extra time for now and set the clock accordingly.

Put directions in a chant and have them repeat before they go to do final things. Just word cues, not a whole sentence. “Teeth, shoes, coat, sis boom bah.”

Lots of praise for doing what you want, even if you feel like they should just do it. The physical taking them by the hand and leading them to the task works really well. If they are picking up some toy instead, take it away for 24 hours.

Last thing is if you see the teacher in the morning, tell the teacher if the kid got ready as asked, or say sadly that it took a long time and comment that most kids in that grade do a more grown-up job. Teacher praise can be a big deal, and most kids don’t want their teacher to think they are “babies.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP. My kids are baby/3/5 and I recently did PEP’s class about not yelling: https://www.pepparentonline.org/p/stop-yelling-mar-2024

For us, the visual checklists are key. They are posted in the bathroom for morning and evening routine (not too many things, AM is get dressed, make bed, brush teeth). We do everything before eating breakfast or the night before, including packing backpack. I think it would be better to brush teeth after breakfast, but that was leading to wasting time and negotiating and yelling.

I’m the PP who posted about checklists. I actually got the idea from PEP class! A few weeks after using the checklist, I was getting so annoyed at my DD frequent late library books. I said “how can we solve this problem?” (Another PeP lesson, problem solving as a family”) and she said let’s add it to the checklist! A big win for us.