In-laws bizarre dynamic: living together edition

[Anonymous]

Op my in-laws are JUST like this! Getting entangled in hugely expensive real estate issues without thinking through the most minimal details and then acting like I am crazy for pointing out the obvious problems. I came around to just thinking - they made their bed, they lie in it. FIL/MIL made an utterly stupid arrangement and they can bear the consequences if SIL kicks them out (or takes 1/2 the house in a divorce).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was waiting for the part where you were personally asked in some way to intervene, fix anything, do anything, mediate, etc. I was then waiting for the part where your husband was expected to get involved. Then I realized you were just spending your time and ours typing out this pointless, gossipy diatribe that has naught to do with you.

OP is right to stay farrrr away from this mess!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm... kind of going to side the parents here. They don't have a legal right (they should have done some kind of life estate or trust situation), but they made it super clear what the plan was. "Always" have a room available, as long as they "need" it and the MIL clearly has health issues.

Deal was clear enough that OP saw it and wisely refused the offer. BIL and SIL took the deal and all that it entails.

there was no “deal”! FIL/MIL can grow up and sell their vacation home and buy a small condo or assisted living. I have zero patience with these folks who refuse to be responsible for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does SIL feel about having to provide care?

Op here, unwilling and not happy that she’s being asked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does SIL feel about having to provide care?

Op here, unwilling and not happy that she’s being asked.

Well, she did get a house at 60% of its value …

[Anonymous]

Mind your own business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op my in-laws are JUST like this! Getting entangled in hugely expensive real estate issues without thinking through the most minimal details and then acting like I am crazy for pointing out the obvious problems. I came around to just thinking - they made their bed, they lie in it. FIL/MIL made an utterly stupid arrangement and they can bear the consequences if SIL kicks them out (or takes 1/2 the house in a divorce).

Op here, I agree. I don’t understand why people fail to consider the dynamics of living together indefinitely. I hope my SIL grows some balls and leaves, she is continually getting the short end of the stick. My BIL is out of town frequently for weeks or months on end for work, so my SIL is the one who has to live with the IL’s for the most part.

They occupy the main (best, most spacious) bedroom of the house. All their crap is still there. FIL grumbles when my BIL has begun renovations in certain parts of the house or questions why he does things a certain way. I would lose my mind. FIL still refers to it as "his house", never changed his mailing address, still sits in his same favourite recliner in front of the TV.

I don’t understand why they didn’t renovate the vacant basement that could easily have its own kitchen with a ground floor entry and no stairs. They were all adults who willingly entered into a crappy real estate situation with no consideration of how it impacts the long term dynamics. And we are *constantly* hearing from both sides how unhappy they are, it’s mind boggling to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm... kind of going to side the parents here. They don't have a legal right (they should have done some kind of life estate or trust situation), but they made it super clear what the plan was. "Always" have a room available, as long as they "need" it and the MIL clearly has health issues.

Deal was clear enough that OP saw it and wisely refused the offer. BIL and SIL took the deal and all that it entails.

I agree. They sold it to family deeply, deeply discounted with the handshake agreement that they would still have a “claim” to stay there. These types of informal family relationships are fraught with danger when the unexpected happen, but both parties should adhere to the spirit of the agreement. If SIL and BIL couldn’t afford the house as full price, then they shouldn’t be stingy now.

HUGE fail of the MIL/FiL for not getting this agreement in writing as a part of the house sale, but that doesn’t give BIL/SIL the moral right to reneg on their informal agreement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm... kind of going to side the parents here. They don't have a legal right (they should have done some kind of life estate or trust situation), but they made it super clear what the plan was. "Always" have a room available, as long as they "need" it and the MIL clearly has health issues.

Deal was clear enough that OP saw it and wisely refused the offer. BIL and SIL took the deal and all that it entails.

I agree. They sold it to family deeply, deeply discounted with the handshake agreement that they would still have a “claim” to stay there. These types of informal family relationships are fraught with danger when the unexpected happen, but both parties should adhere to the spirit of the agreement. If SIL and BIL couldn’t afford the house as full price, then they shouldn’t be stingy now.

HUGE fail of the MIL/FiL for not getting this agreement in writing as a part of the house sale, but that doesn’t give BIL/SIL the moral right to reneg on their informal agreement

I disagree, and this is why verbal agreements are so lousy, because they turn into a he said/she said situation. You don't know whether SIL was adequately briefed on the caretaking clause. I think SIL is the victim here. I have zero sympathy for that sneaky FIL, who in my view wasn't able to bamboozle OP, but did manage to bamboozle BIL because he's such a stupid pushover. FIL basically exploited two people who didn't realize what they were getting into.

Would any of you take that deal, where the house you've purchased for two thirds of the price isn't actually your house, FIL still occupies the best spots, and now you've got to take care of both FIL and MIL, for years?!?!

I would rather live in one-bedroom. I'm sure SIL would too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm... kind of going to side the parents here. They don't have a legal right (they should have done some kind of life estate or trust situation), but they made it super clear what the plan was. "Always" have a room available, as long as they "need" it and the MIL clearly has health issues.

Deal was clear enough that OP saw it and wisely refused the offer. BIL and SIL took the deal and all that it entails.

I agree. They sold it to family deeply, deeply discounted with the handshake agreement that they would still have a “claim” to stay there. These types of informal family relationships are fraught with danger when the unexpected happen, but both parties should adhere to the spirit of the agreement. If SIL and BIL couldn’t afford the house as full price, then they shouldn’t be stingy now.

HUGE fail of the MIL/FiL for not getting this agreement in writing as a part of the house sale, but that doesn’t give BIL/SIL the moral right to reneg on their informal agreement

I disagree, and this is why verbal agreements are so lousy, because they turn into a he said/she said situation. You don't know whether SIL was adequately briefed on the caretaking clause. I think SIL is the victim here. I have zero sympathy for that sneaky FIL, who in my view wasn't able to bamboozle OP, but did manage to bamboozle BIL because he's such a stupid pushover. FIL basically exploited two people who didn't realize what they were getting into.

Would any of you take that deal, where the house you've purchased for two thirds of the price isn't actually your house, FIL still occupies the best spots, and now you've got to take care of both FIL and MIL, for years?!?!

I would rather live in one-bedroom. I'm sure SIL would too.

Op here. I see both sides here too.

SIL is pissed she’s being asked to participate as a caretaker.
MIL/FIL were supposed to contribute to the utilities, they do not.
FIL refers to the house as "his house" in passing or reference still.
I don’t think they were clear about the expectations of always having a room by design. From my understanding they would fully move all of their stuff out and only occupy a room occasionally (at least that’s how it was described to me when FIL suggested it).

They never moved their stuff out. They stay there probably 2 weeks of the month, SIL/BIL need to tip toe around MIL when she’s having an episode due to her fragile health. SIL doesn’t feel like it’s her home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does SIL feel about having to provide care?

Op here, unwilling and not happy that she’s being asked.

Well, she did get a house at 60% of its value …

57% and SIL/BIL now have the consequences of their decision. And SIL knew their stuff was still in the master bedroom. At 700K for a SFH I guess wherever it is the extra 300k would have put them in a condo or been used for care or assisted living. So will the inlaws and BIL/SIL be asking OP/DH for $ for care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does SIL feel about having to provide care?

Op here, unwilling and not happy that she’s being asked.

Well, she did get a house at 60% of its value …

57% and SIL/BIL now have the consequences of their decision. And SIL knew their stuff was still in the master bedroom. At 700K for a SFH I guess wherever it is the extra 300k would have put them in a condo or been used for care or assisted living. So will the inlaws and BIL/SIL be asking OP/DH for $ for care?

OP here. MIL/FIL have zero plan for care, absolutely zero. No POA, living will, healthcare directive or savings/plan for long term care.

No acceptance that MIL will continue to deteriorate and need some kind of care or assisted living. They thought they would live out their lives in the rural cabin. MIL does not have the capacity to be left alone and is a seizure risk. Not to mention she’s a cancer survivor, has epilepsy, gastroparesis, and a chronic degenerative disease. They’ve known for 15+ years about her diagnosis. I’m not a medical provider, but in my personal experience physicians usually have some kind of conversation about what to word expect? FIL treats every health episode as a crisis and not as just the ongoing reality of MIL’s decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does SIL feel about having to provide care?

Op here, unwilling and not happy that she’s being asked.

Well, she did get a house at 60% of its value …

57% and SIL/BIL now have the consequences of their decision. And SIL knew their stuff was still in the master bedroom. At 700K for a SFH I guess wherever it is the extra 300k would have put them in a condo or been used for care or assisted living. So will the inlaws and BIL/SIL be asking OP/DH for $ for care?

OP here. MIL/FIL have zero plan for care, absolutely zero. No POA, living will, healthcare directive or savings/plan for long term care.

No acceptance that MIL will continue to deteriorate and need some kind of care or assisted living. They thought they would live out their lives in the rural cabin. MIL does not have the capacity to be left alone and is a seizure risk. Not to mention she’s a cancer survivor, has epilepsy, gastroparesis, and a chronic degenerative disease. They’ve known for 15+ years about her diagnosis. I’m not a medical provider, but in my personal experience physicians usually have some kind of conversation about what to word expect? FIL treats every health episode as a crisis and not as just the ongoing reality of MIL’s decline.

Long term care is expensive and your in-laws should have sold their home for market rate to get that money for long-term care. Nursing and assisted living is VERY expensive and the (limited) state run facilities are awful.

Did they need money and this was their way of getting quick cash and also thinking they could still keep their home? This is why you get a lawyer involved and get everything in writing.

I feel for your SIL. All of this should have been in writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does SIL feel about having to provide care?

Op here, unwilling and not happy that she’s being asked.

Well, she did get a house at 60% of its value …

57% and SIL/BIL now have the consequences of their decision. And SIL knew their stuff was still in the master bedroom. At 700K for a SFH I guess wherever it is the extra 300k would have put them in a condo or been used for care or assisted living. So will the inlaws and BIL/SIL be asking OP/DH for $ for care?

OP here. MIL/FIL have zero plan for care, absolutely zero. No POA, living will, healthcare directive or savings/plan for long term care.

No acceptance that MIL will continue to deteriorate and need some kind of care or assisted living. They thought they would live out their lives in the rural cabin. MIL does not have the capacity to be left alone and is a seizure risk. Not to mention she’s a cancer survivor, has epilepsy, gastroparesis, and a chronic degenerative disease. They’ve known for 15+ years about her diagnosis. I’m not a medical provider, but in my personal experience physicians usually have some kind of conversation about what to word expect? FIL treats every health episode as a crisis and not as just the ongoing reality of MIL’s decline.

There is no way SIL should care for her in-laws in this scenario. They (or at least FIL) blew it by not being fair. It's not right to sell your house to make some money, then proceed to still live in it half the time, incur few expenses, and expect the EXORBITANT SERVICE of eldercare.

Nursing homes are at least 10K a month, and they don't even offer all the services an elderly person might need. FIL and MIL sold their crappy house for a few 100K, and in exchange expect to still use the house AND receive FREE CARE? Do you realize that's not even having your cake and eating it too, but also sleeping with the baker?!??!?!?!

NO. Just no. It's not fair. The posters who claim BIL and SIL reneged on their deal haven't thought this through. This was never an ethical deal to make, and if they made it out of ignorance, or FIL misrepresented the deal, they are absolutely entitled to tell him they've changed their minds.

What a shitty, shitty FIL. The irony is that if he'd been a little less dishonest, I'm sure his kids and their spouses would have been happy to help him out a little. But here? No way.

[Anonymous]

Well, there are potential tax and other consequences to the "sale" that they engaged in. So maybe tell them to consult a good attorney and perhaps they'll undo the "sale" and everyone can get out of it.