I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I went around explaining to people everything they do that annoys me, I would have zero friends.

It is low EQ to share that kind of thing with the person because it is hurtful to the person, especially if it is something they cannot change like a tic. My own son has tics and I do not point them out to him, because they stem from anxiety and he can’t stop them. It would just make him more anxious and make the tic worse. I work behind the scenes to address the root cause of the anxiety instead.

I would gently suggest that a therapist is the BEST place to get this kind of social skills training. Not your friends. I know it is expensive, but it is worth it. A friend will not do this for you, because they don’t want to hurt you.

I have on occasion told friends about things they can fix. The absolutely worst was having to tell a good friend of mine at college he had BO. To this day I still die inside a little thinking about that conversation, but he did fix it. He was absolutely mortified, though. We never mentioned it again and pretended like it didn’t happen.

This is the heart of it, OP. Many of us go through life second guessing everything we say and do to try to avoid hurting the people around us and trying to guess what will be stressful/hurtful to others so we can avoid doing this. The only way I’d tell a friend ways their social behavior could be improved was if they specifically asked me for that feedback. (I have some close friends with whom I will share social dilemmas and they will to do the same with me, for example.) But to just tell a college assigned roommate they were annoying? That feels extremely mean. Yes, it would have been kind to you but it would be mean to an anxious person for example. So people can’t just go around telling people this or that habit they have is annoying because it might help some people — there’s no easy way of knowing if the person you’re thinking of criticizing will find it helpful or hurtful (or indeed fly off the handle and scream at you another thing many of us try to avoid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if I'm socially awkward because of the weird parents I grew up with or because of being undiagnosed with autism, but I have been so grateful to the people who've moved through my life and told me things I needed to know in a very direct, straight-forward way. "Don't start a conversation with someone with the phrase you know what your problem is." "Stop saying 'you should ...' to people." "When you reach out to invite someone to something instead of saying "what are you doing this weekend?" instead say "I was thinking we could go to X Sunday morning - want to come?" "Don't open the window or change the thermostat in someone else's home, just ask if they can make it cooler."

What? What’s wrong with asking people what they’re doing this weekend? It’s a very common prelude to an invite. [/quote

It's intrusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is actually good advice for everyone. If someone is doing something that bothers you, tell them. Give them a chance to fix it. I told my husband when we got married "If you hate my meatloaf" don't eat it for 25 years and then frek out telling me you always hated it. Good luck growing. FYI, everyone even NT people struggle with all this stuff all the time. You are not as different or as alone as you may think.

This only works if the other person is receptive. Otherwise they shut down and don’t want to acknowledge anything you said. Easier said than done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.

I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.

She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.

She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.

It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.

Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?

I’m OP and that’s a fair assessment. Honestly speaking, my behaviors were likely more annoying and less hurtful. I do think my parents and sisters tried to warn me about my annoying and off-putting behaviors and I probably should have listened to them more, but would have taken it more seriously if I had heard it from others. With college roommates, it was definitely a boiled-over situation since they mentioned behaviors that I had no idea about. I also think that people were generally more likely to look for reasons to exclude people rather than be accommodating towards non-NT people. The thing with the autism spectrum is that we tend not to pick up on social cues and subtleties like “reading the room”, for example being invited to a party and not reading the room, then never being invited back to the party again with no explanation. The issue wasn’t that I told racist or insensitive jokes or something, it was more probably that I went on and on about some interest of mine and probably annoyed people. Again, I get that this isn’t their responsibility, but it would have helped if someone said “hey, you’ve been talking a lot about X, and we’re not really feeling it. How about we talk about something else?” Rather than just write me off as some weirdo and never invite me out again. I know I’m not entitled to it, but a second chance would have helped.

Therapy helps, but it’s expensive, and it doesn’t bring back all those years I could have built relationships by “reading the room” better.

You are not wrong by stating that these things would have been helpful to you, OP.

But I do think you might need to examine your expectations of others with the same lens as you are examining your own actions.

By that I mean, you seem to be aware that not being NT, you didn’t get the same cues that others would get by simply “reading the room”—and you would have preferred that they just TELL you “hey let’s talk about something else”
…but you may forget or not realize that, in the same way that you just didn’t know to read the room… NT folks may have no idea that you *wouldnt* have this ability/innate understanding. So it’s not that they were deliberately not telling you. It’s that they didn’t know you NEEDED to be told.
Because most NT people communicate with non-verbal cues that other NTs just pick up on to help adjust their behaviors without calling it out.
I know, it doesn’t seem fair that there is this hidden language or secret code that no one let you in on (I mean that figuratively—but I’m sure it feels literal)

But just know that most NTs are not actually conscious of the code OR of the fact that there are those who don’t innately know how to operate within it.
One example is—If someone in a group is talking too loudly, a subtle cue might be that others lower their voices to even more of a whisper to get that person to speak softer.—-or they might exchange awkward glances or apologetic looks to those outside the conversation circle and the person speaking would pick up on that as a sign that their speech is garnering embarrassment or unwanted attention and quickly adjust the volume to see if that fixed the cues. But rarely will someone “Shush” the speaker or say “whoa please don’t speak so loudly!” Because that can be perceived as aggressive or rude. But I’d imagine as a ND person, you might prefer that someone just say “larla…volume” or whatever.

The point is though, being NT comes with the same blinders as being ND with regard to living life through the other persons lens—it’s just in reverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if I'm socially awkward because of the weird parents I grew up with or because of being undiagnosed with autism, but I have been so grateful to the people who've moved through my life and told me things I needed to know in a very direct, straight-forward way. "Don't start a conversation with someone with the phrase you know what your problem is." "Stop saying 'you should ...' to people." "When you reach out to invite someone to something instead of saying "what are you doing this weekend?" instead say "I was thinking we could go to X Sunday morning - want to come?" "Don't open the window or change the thermostat in someone else's home, just ask if they can make it cooler."

What? What’s wrong with asking people what they’re doing this weekend? It’s a very common prelude to an invite. [/quote

It's intrusive.

I think the objection is if you
Ask this as a means of inviting someone to do something with you rather than just casually expressing an interest in what they’re up to.

When it’s an opener to an invite, it’s socially impolite because it puts them on the spot to tell you their plans and if they say “nothing” and it’s followed by your invitation to go rock throwing on skunk mountain, they are now stammering and stuck because you’ve trapped them and they have no polite “out” —
But if you lead with “hey Larla—do you want to go wine tasting on George Clooney’s yacht with me this weekend?” then she is informed upfront about the activity.

[Anonymous]

I recently met someone new and said something sarcastic. They said "I'm autistic and I'm not sure what you mean." No one owes me a diagnosis, but I so appreciated the honesty. I was a lot more straightforward and chose my words and tone more carefully.

Sometimes people are more patient when they understand why someone is the way they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, if I went around explaining to people everything they do that annoys me, I would have zero friends.

It is low EQ to share that kind of thing with the person because it is hurtful to the person, especially if it is something they cannot change like a tic. My own son has tics and I do not point them out to him, because they stem from anxiety and he can’t stop them. It would just make him more anxious and make the tic worse. I work behind the scenes to address the root cause of the anxiety instead.

I would gently suggest that a therapist is the BEST place to get this kind of social skills training. Not your friends. I know it is expensive, but it is worth it. A friend will not do this for you, because they don’t want to hurt you.

I have on occasion told friends about things they can fix. The absolutely worst was having to tell a good friend of mine at college he had BO. To this day I still die inside a little thinking about that conversation, but he did fix it. He was absolutely mortified, though. We never mentioned it again and pretended like it didn’t happen.

I have an adult friend who has this issue and I have struggled for years with finding the courage to tell them. I think if they were otherwise confident and less anxious, I might have done so already.

[Anonymous]

Blame your parents for not sending you to charm school or speech therapy.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry OP. I have a quirky ASD kid and I also teach kids with ASD. I know exactly the qualities you talk about and I do work with all the young people I love on recognizing boundaries on these things to avoid getting to where you did. It is tough because you don’t want to kill their spirits or their interests but you also know they can’t read the cues people give when they’re tired of hearing it or need a break. If it makes you feel better, I think ASD is such much better known now than when you were growing up and much less stigmatized that those who are on the spectrum are more understood and better served now. But thank you for the reminder to all to be mindful of this and that being clear is kind with everyone - we all have to help each other grow as people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.

I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.

She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.

She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.

It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.

Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?

I’m OP and that’s a fair assessment. Honestly speaking, my behaviors were likely more annoying and less hurtful. I do think my parents and sisters tried to warn me about my annoying and off-putting behaviors and I probably should have listened to them more, but would have taken it more seriously if I had heard it from others. With college roommates, it was definitely a boiled-over situation since they mentioned behaviors that I had no idea about. I also think that people were generally more likely to look for reasons to exclude people rather than be accommodating towards non-NT people. The thing with the autism spectrum is that we tend not to pick up on social cues and subtleties like “reading the room”, for example being invited to a party and not reading the room, then never being invited back to the party again with no explanation. The issue wasn’t that I told racist or insensitive jokes or something, it was more probably that I went on and on about some interest of mine and probably annoyed people. Again, I get that this isn’t their responsibility, but it would have helped if someone said “hey, you’ve been talking a lot about X, and we’re not really feeling it. How about we talk about something else?” Rather than just write me off as some weirdo and never invite me out again. I know I’m not entitled to it, but a second chance would have helped.

Therapy helps, but it’s expensive, and it doesn’t bring back all those years I could have built relationships by “reading the room” better.

Do you really believe that people should be accommodating and inclusive in their private lives??? I can only have a very finite number of friends, the relationships that I nurture and that nurture me. If I don't mesh with someone, I don't mesh with someone. I don't overanalyze if it's them or if it's me or what I can do differently. Work and school are different, but in my personal life I am looking for "my" people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP. I have a quirky ASD kid and I also teach kids with ASD. I know exactly the qualities you talk about and I do work with all the young people I love on recognizing boundaries on these things to avoid getting to where you did. It is tough because you don’t want to kill their spirits or their interests but you also know they can’t read the cues people give when they’re tired of hearing it or need a break. If it makes you feel better, I think ASD is such much better known now than when you were growing up and much less stigmatized that those who are on the spectrum are more understood and better served now. But thank you for the reminder to all to be mindful of this and that being clear is kind with everyone - we all have to help each other grow as people.

This is a wonderful empathetic reply.

You sound like an awesome person.

[Anonymous]

I have a neighbor that I’m friendly with who I think is on the spectrum. She lacks the ability to read the room, and dominates conversations at any social event she is invited to. It’s exhausting, I want to be able to catch up with friends and we can’t because she’s droning on and on about something no one else cares about. However she also gets extremely upset when she’s left out of things, which to be honest is because people don’t want her dominating every conversation.

[Anonymous]

I think you mean well op but you say you drone on about stuff that people have no interest in. So if they changed the subject you’d just drone on about something else. These are not your people. You need to find people who love talking and listening about what you love to talk about. If you can’t pick up on social cues, it is what it is. It won’t change and make you more likable to people who are partiers and NT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a neighbor that I’m friendly with who I think is on the spectrum. She lacks the ability to read the room, and dominates conversations at any social event she is invited to. It’s exhausting, I want to be able to catch up with friends and we can’t because she’s droning on and on about something no one else cares about. However she also gets extremely upset when she’s left out of things, which to be honest is because people don’t want her dominating every conversation.

Sounds like a narcissist actually, not someone with ASD.

[Anonymous]

People are conditioned to be patient and polite, especially in social settings like work, school, dorms, etc. Stop blaming others for your condition, and do the best you can with the resources you have. Open your mouth and tell your friends and colleagues that you are aware of your condition, and it would be really helpful if they would go out of their way to talk to you frankly.

It’s not anyone’s fault. It’s not your fault, but it’s also not your friends/coworkers/family members/neighbor’s fault. Stop blaming.