I’m on the autism spectrum. How I wish people could have helped me socially

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.

I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.

She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.

She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.

It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.

Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?

I’m OP and that’s a fair assessment. Honestly speaking, my behaviors were likely more annoying and less hurtful. I do think my parents and sisters tried to warn me about my annoying and off-putting behaviors and I probably should have listened to them more, but would have taken it more seriously if I had heard it from others. With college roommates, it was definitely a boiled-over situation since they mentioned behaviors that I had no idea about. I also think that people were generally more likely to look for reasons to exclude people rather than be accommodating towards non-NT people. The thing with the autism spectrum is that we tend not to pick up on social cues and subtleties like “reading the room”, for example being invited to a party and not reading the room, then never being invited back to the party again with no explanation. The issue wasn’t that I told racist or insensitive jokes or something, it was more probably that I went on and on about some interest of mine and probably annoyed people. Again, I get that this isn’t their responsibility, but it would have helped if someone said “hey, you’ve been talking a lot about X, and we’re not really feeling it. How about we talk about something else?” Rather than just write me off as some weirdo and never invite me out again. I know I’m not entitled to it, but a second chance would have helped.

Therapy helps, but it’s expensive, and it doesn’t bring back all those years I could have built relationships by “reading the room” better.

Not worth the effort to most people. Do you realize that? Not everyone wants to invest in a friendship or close relationship with someone who requires a lot of work and coaching. That doesn’t make others horrible—we all have limited time and capacity, and not everyone is going to choose to invest and take you under their wing. I have a coworker who sounds a lot like you and could benefit from some coaching and a “work buddy,” but I barely have time for my family and friends and myself, and she is not my project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you mean well op but you say you drone on about stuff that people have no interest in. So if they changed the subject you’d just drone on about something else. These are not your people. You need to find people who love talking and listening about what you love to talk about. If you can’t pick up on social cues, it is what it is. It won’t change and make you more likable to people who are partiers and NT.

I’m OP. So I’m ND but how I differ from people with classic ASD, or at least being a milder version of it, is that some habits I’ve been able to grow out of. I look back at some of the things I subjected my friends to when I was in middle school and high school and cringe. But let me tell you what it’s like to get caught up in one of my obsessions. It’s like I lose myself in a topic when I get engaged in it. It’s like having a romantic affair with a given subject. My heart races and I blush and I feel like I can’t get enough. And I lose sight of how other people are reacting. When my family used to tell me, eventually I would listen and understand how it annoys people, but I’d be in denial or at least unaware of it when I was in the real world. And to this day, while I’m sure I do it a lot less than I used to, I probably still do it without realizing it, and that’s what I wish people could make me more aware of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m mildly on the autism spectrum. High-functioning professionally but have difficulty building and maintaining relationships. I’m in therapy, I’ve improved social skills through the years, but looking back at my life, there’s one thing I wish people could have helped me with, which is being more honest and direct with me.

Over the years, in high school, college, and in most of my 20s, I’ve had acquaintances, so-called friends, and roommates who have just kept quiet about how annoying I was to them until it hit a boiling point and then they blew up at me and gave me a laundry list of all the things that annoyed them about me. I had no idea about all the little things that bothered them until it was too late. Had I known that certain habits of mine bothered people, I would have been more mindful and tried to change them and had been more self-aware and maybe had more successful relationships elsewhere in life. It’s taken me 33 years of living and three years of expensive therapy to figure out where I’ve gone wrong in social situations.

I realize it’s not others’ responsibility to coach me in relationships, and that not everyone is entitled to friends and partners. Life isn’t always fair like that. Just putting it out there that for some non-neurotypical people like myself, honesty is the best policy. Now I’m actually overcorrecting and over-analyzing how annoying I may be to people and I constantly worry what others are thinking and not telling me behind my back. It’s an exhausting way to live.

If your roommates have told an NT person at the time all the thing that bother them it would have been interpreted at nitpicking and not gone over well. The only way this would be successful if you were to tell them this well in advance of any of those annoying habit featuring. Most of the world is NT but understanding. State your need upfront if you would like people to be accommodating and understand that most people will, some won't. Some people have their own limitations.

[Anonymous]

I recently was in a professional membership group situation with someone on the spectrum and many members tried to coach him but he was his own worst enemy. He would attack other professionals and ignore advice. He left the group willingly but he would not have been renewed given the toxic behaviors that kept repeating themselves.

I'm surprised no one helped you or, is there some self-reflection and personal accountability that the destructive behaviors would continue despite people trying to be helpful?

[Anonymous]

People have tried to help you, more than you realize, in more ways than you will ever realize. But guess what? People in middle school, high school, college, neighborhood, at work, etc., ARE NOT EQUIPPED to help you.

We help you the ways we know how: changing the subject, being as patient as possible, trying to engage with your chosen topic a little bit but then trying again to change the subject, etc. Everyday people are not therapists or counselors, so they are not aware of how to help you. They are socially conditioned NOT to be blunt. The social conditioning NOT to be blunt is reinforced time and again. They are doing the best they can.

Your expectations of laypeople are off-base and unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.

I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.

She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.

She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.

It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.

Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?

I’m OP and that’s a fair assessment. Honestly speaking, my behaviors were likely more annoying and less hurtful. I do think my parents and sisters tried to warn me about my annoying and off-putting behaviors and I probably should have listened to them more, but would have taken it more seriously if I had heard it from others. With college roommates, it was definitely a boiled-over situation since they mentioned behaviors that I had no idea about. I also think that people were generally more likely to look for reasons to exclude people rather than be accommodating towards non-NT people. The thing with the autism spectrum is that we tend not to pick up on social cues and subtleties like “reading the room”, for example being invited to a party and not reading the room, then never being invited back to the party again with no explanation. The issue wasn’t that I told racist or insensitive jokes or something, it was more probably that I went on and on about some interest of mine and probably annoyed people. Again, I get that this isn’t their responsibility, but it would have helped if someone said “hey, you’ve been talking a lot about X, and we’re not really feeling it. How about we talk about something else?” Rather than just write me off as some weirdo and never invite me out again. I know I’m not entitled to it, but a second chance would have helped.

Therapy helps, but it’s expensive, and it doesn’t bring back all those years I could have built relationships by “reading the room” better.

Not worth the effort to most people. Do you realize that? Not everyone wants to invest in a friendship or close relationship with someone who requires a lot of work and coaching. That doesn’t make others horrible—we all have limited time and capacity, and not everyone is going to choose to invest and take you under their wing. I have a coworker who sounds a lot like you and could benefit from some coaching and a “work buddy,” but I barely have time for my family and friends and myself, and she is not my project.

+1
I want a friend, not a project. I have enough projects in my life that take too much of an investment from me. Now, if you can support me, I can support you - a two way friendship. What do you bring to the table for them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you mean well op but you say you drone on about stuff that people have no interest in. So if they changed the subject you’d just drone on about something else. These are not your people. You need to find people who love talking and listening about what you love to talk about. If you can’t pick up on social cues, it is what it is. It won’t change and make you more likable to people who are partiers and NT.

I’m OP. So I’m ND but how I differ from people with classic ASD, or at least being a milder version of it, is that some habits I’ve been able to grow out of. I look back at some of the things I subjected my friends to when I was in middle school and high school and cringe. But let me tell you what it’s like to get caught up in one of my obsessions. It’s like I lose myself in a topic when I get engaged in it. It’s like having a romantic affair with a given subject. My heart races and I blush and I feel like I can’t get enough. And I lose sight of how other people are reacting. When my family used to tell me, eventually I would listen and understand how it annoys people, but I’d be in denial or at least unaware of it when I was in the real world. And to this day, while I’m sure I do it a lot less than I used to, I probably still do it without realizing it, and that’s what I wish people could make me more aware of.

Since you know this about yourself, there are things that you can do — yourself. Set a timer on vibrate, or find some other strategy to remind yourself to check your behavior. Perhaps you can pay a coach to do a few outings with you, or enlist a family member to do this a few times and give you feedback on your behavior. In the end, though, it really will be on you to learn to manage this. Sure, you could warn other people that you’d appreciate feedback — either directly or subtly (such as wearing an autism symbol — although not everyone will recognize this.). In the end, though, you’re asking people to put your needs above their own, and your comfort above their own. The “honesty” that you’re requesting would be considered rude and inappropriate in most settings. It’s on you, then, to somehow indicate to others that you would find this helpful— and also on you to appreciate that not everyone will have the bandwidth or the motivation for this.

One more piece: Think about how you respond when people do go out of their way to give you cues. If you’re briefly appreciative and shift to accommodate the cue, that will go over much better than if you seem irritated or ignore the cues.

[Anonymous]

Have you watched Extraordinary Attorney Woo?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People have tried to help you, more than you realize, in more ways than you will ever realize. But guess what? People in middle school, high school, college, neighborhood, at work, etc., ARE NOT EQUIPPED to help you.

We help you the ways we know how: changing the subject, being as patient as possible, trying to engage with your chosen topic a little bit but then trying again to change the subject, etc. Everyday people are not therapists or counselors, so they are not aware of how to help you. They are socially conditioned NOT to be blunt. The social conditioning NOT to be blunt is reinforced time and again. They are doing the best they can.

Your expectations of laypeople are off-base and unfair.

This is really important. My child is in a therapist-led social skills group because I want him to recognize the socially awkward and offputting behaviors he engages in. I would NOT want someone outside a therapeutic setting to take this on (outside perhaps some family and close friends) because doing so poorly, even if well intentioned, is likely to make my child feel badly about himself and diminish his self confidence.

[Anonymous]

Other people are trying to live their own lives and work through their own shit, why should they be burdened with doing your work, too? Can you not see that is asking a lot?

[Anonymous]

OP, one of my closest friends is an adult with mild autism who I met when I was in my mid-20s and she was in her early 40s. She had done a lot of work to understand her own experiences and behavior, and also was an expert and very funny explainer of the rules NT were following that she could not readily apprehend without having them explained.

It is one of the relationships in which I have learned and grown the most in my life, and I’m sorry people here are coming at you with this “what do you bring to the friendship/you’re asking too much” biz.

(Yes, inclusivity in private life is a benefit both to the person included and to the person doing the including! What a bizarre question that was in an earlier post.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, one of my closest friends is an adult with mild autism who I met when I was in my mid-20s and she was in her early 40s. She had done a lot of work to understand her own experiences and behavior, and also was an expert and very funny explainer of the rules NT were following that she could not readily apprehend without having them explained.

It is one of the relationships in which I have learned and grown the most in my life, and I’m sorry people here are coming at you with this “what do you bring to the friendship/you’re asking too much” biz.

(Yes, inclusivity in private life is a benefit both to the person included and to the person doing the including! What a bizarre question that was in an earlier post.)

PP, I hope you realize that in your comment, you directly addressed one of the questions that’s come up a lot. You’ve described your friend as “very funny” and the relationship as one that has helped you grow. I think most here are trying to be both kind and direct in responding to the OP — by suggesting ways that she can get her needs met AND by encouraging her to be consciously aware of why other people might want to go out of their way to make an effort to do this with her.

IMO, pointing out these things — that she may or may not already be aware of — is a direct response to her request for help and feedback.

[Anonymous]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0B8ZOljv7JiHwHbX589PRd

This is a powerful podcast on A Slight Change of Plans with a man on the autism spectrum. He did a medical trial on his brain that gave him NT emotions for a short period. He found out that was no picnic either and was happy to return to his version of normal.

[Anonymous]

I am thankful to my younger sister who taught me to navigate social situations with my peers. Sometimes she invited me out with her friends for drinks and I'm sure I embarrassed her once or twice.
And she will tell me when I'm out of line. For example I gave her what I thought was a compliment and she told me it was an underhanded compliment and so I apologized.

There's a book that came out this year called Cassandra in Reverse. It's about a young woman who seemingly is on the spectrum (although that's never spelled out) and can travel back in time. So she she goes back to fix all the "mistakes" she makes in various social situations. It's a fun and easy read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate your candor and self-awareness. I'm going to relate an experience I had with someone like you, in the spirit of honesty.

I had a friend some years ago who was the same age you are now. She engage in a host of behaviors that were, yes, annoying, but also sometimes hurtful and unkind. She was later diagnosed with ADHD and I think in retrospect some of her behaviors were due to ADHD.

She likely perceived me as being like the people you describe -- letting things built up until I exploded at her. But I didn't let anything build up. I told her about the behaviors that bothered me as they came up. She didn't hear me. For instance, she had a habit of telling lies or half truths a lot. I would call her on this and ask for explanations ("That doesn't make sense. You told me last week you didn't know that person and now you are calling them your close friend. Do you know them or not?"). Her response would be to lie more, to lash out at me, and to avoid the conversation.

She also was very skilled at evading accountability for her behavior (I assume a skill honed over 30+ years) and she would engage in manipulative behavior in order to get out of things. This would include claiming she could not remember things that had happened recently, claiming that certain behavior was a joke, or even suddenly claiming she didn't know me very well, that we were merely acquaintances and not fairly close friends of several years. She would say this behavior was the result of her ADHD. That may or may not be true, but it's also gaslighting.

It should be obvious by now that my friendship with this person did not last, and it ended pretty terrible actually. But at no point did I lie to her or let her behavior slide. In fact, I think I was one of the very rare people in her life who called her on some of her bad behavior, and I think it's possible her experience with me led her to her ADHD diagnosis. But I think she would describe her experience with me much the way you describe yours with others -- she'd claim I didn't say anything until I "blew up" at her with a laundry list of complaints. It's not true. She chose not to listen to me when I politely and kindly raised issues with her along the way, and when I got tired of being ignored and dismissed, I did "blow up" because by then I was upset not just about the lies and other annoying behaviors, but also at her manipulations and evasions when I tried to address these things with her.

Sharing this with you in case there might be something here you see in yourself. It can be easy to blame others for conflict, but of you are having the same conflict with people over and over, it's possible that you are the one creating a dynamic where it seems like people are being polite but then blowing up. Do you listen to people when they politely tell you that your behavior has been hurtful, annoying, or inconsiderate? Or do you only listen once they get Big Mad and blow up?

I’m OP and that’s a fair assessment. Honestly speaking, my behaviors were likely more annoying and less hurtful. I do think my parents and sisters tried to warn me about my annoying and off-putting behaviors and I probably should have listened to them more, but would have taken it more seriously if I had heard it from others. With college roommates, it was definitely a boiled-over situation since they mentioned behaviors that I had no idea about. I also think that people were generally more likely to look for reasons to exclude people rather than be accommodating towards non-NT people. The thing with the autism spectrum is that we tend not to pick up on social cues and subtleties like “reading the room”, for example being invited to a party and not reading the room, then never being invited back to the party again with no explanation. The issue wasn’t that I told racist or insensitive jokes or something, it was more probably that I went on and on about some interest of mine and probably annoyed people. Again, I get that this isn’t their responsibility, but it would have helped if someone said “hey, you’ve been talking a lot about X, and we’re not really feeling it. How about we talk about something else?” Rather than just write me off as some weirdo and never invite me out again. I know I’m not entitled to it, but a second chance would have helped.

Therapy helps, but it’s expensive, and it doesn’t bring back all those years I could have built relationships by “reading the room” better.

Not worth the effort to most people. Do you realize that? Not everyone wants to invest in a friendship or close relationship with someone who requires a lot of work and coaching. That doesn’t make others horrible—we all have limited time and capacity, and not everyone is going to choose to invest and take you under their wing. I have a coworker who sounds a lot like you and could benefit from some coaching and a “work buddy,” but I barely have time for my family and friends and myself, and she is not my project.

+1

People have their own families to worry about, OP. Sounds blunt, but it is true. It is similar to the moms (usually moms, sometimes dads) who pawn off their kids on playdates, because they don't like or don't want to mind their own kid. They just have kids to check off some boxes. Not saying this is what your parents did, just saying sometimes people are in their own world, and minding their own responsibilities, and some parents are better at it than others.