any other jews get a little weirded out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My college roommate is Jewish. Always wishes me happiness on a Christian holiday. I’m not offended. What’s the difference?

This is OP - and I am not "offended," I just find it a little weird. I think the difference is that presumably your college roommate knows you well enough to know if wishing you happiness on a Christian holiday is appropriate. These are generic "oh, you're Jewish, well here's what I am going to presume about what to say to you without having any personal knowledge about how you practice" sorts of things. It's just weird! I don't care enough to say anything to the people who are making the posts - I do care enough to say here that I find it odd and a little off!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, well-intentioned but weird. I would roll my eyes hard at the Facebook post which is very obviously virtue signaling. Like even if you make a point to know this stuff and offer appropriate greetings, posting about it to Facebook is just a way of being like "Look how THOUGHTFUL and worldly I am!" I also think it would come off as lecture-y to other non-Jews who might then feel pressure to do it, which I really don't feel is necessary.

The last thing I want is for all my non-Jewish friends texting me to let me know they want me to have an easy fast, lol. I usually don't even fast! I'm a bad Jew.

I am OP - and I think this is a lot of it. The FB post was specifically aimed at other Christians - like, hey, Christians, here are the important Jewish holidays and don't bother your Jewish friends during them, but when you do see your Jewish friends here's what to say. Then of course there was the obligatory "please share" - and I was like, please don't! (In my head, I didn't say anything.)

But yeah, I can't remember the last time I celebrated Rosh Hashana or fasted for Yom Kippur. It feels very othering and presumptuous - and also sort of ignorant about how many of us are secular Jews? - to be lecturing one another about what to say and not say to Jewish people on those days. Just be normal, maybe? Be sensitive that some of your Jewish friends may be observing the holidays, and others may not be - like I don't presume that my Christian friends are totally unavailable on Good Friday but if they told me they'd be out of the office or something I would be fine with that, too.

PP here, and yes. I wonder if one thing that is happening here is that the people doing this are pretty devout Christians, and they assume that people in other religions are devout in the same ways. But I don't keep kosher, fast, or attend temple very often. Assuming that I observe my religion the same way you do is actually kind of limiting.

I disagree with the poster who said "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I think the key is: (1) don't be prejudiced, I'm not going to tolerate anti-semitic comments or actions, this is what I care about the most, and (2) if you're friends with someone, get to know them and maybe ask questions about their faith or religion. Anyone who actually knows me would know I'm not super observant. If someone is wishing me an easy fast, it's a sign that all they know about me is that I'm Jewish (which you could figure out from my name and appearance pretty easily). It's not actually that thoughtful.

This is OP - and yes, all this, yes.

[Anonymous]

Content is mostly fine Style is flawed.

1. Don't tag people in widely distributed posts. Only tag people who share a connection, in posts shared to a group that shared that connection. Tag is almost never polite even asked to do it by the person you are tagging.

2. When you make a broad comment, just say "to all who celebrate!" There's no need or reason to make a list of people it applies to.

[Anonymous]

I don't have any particular problem with the first example. I think it's nice to remind/notify people what holidays are coming up and especially not to say "Happy Yom Kippur!" to people. I might wonder why they are posting, but maybe they have a Jewish sister-in-law or best friend or something. I see this kind of thing as in the same vein as reminding people when Ash Wednesday is coming up so we don't make a big deal about forehead smudges.

The second example with the tagging is weird. Either make a blanket post and just say "to all my friends observing this holiday" or send individual messages to your Jewish friends wishing them well. Tagging all your Jewish friends is ick.

[Anonymous]

the problem is social media. get off social media.

in real life, people are more normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, well-intentioned but weird. I would roll my eyes hard at the Facebook post which is very obviously virtue signaling. Like even if you make a point to know this stuff and offer appropriate greetings, posting about it to Facebook is just a way of being like "Look how THOUGHTFUL and worldly I am!" I also think it would come off as lecture-y to other non-Jews who might then feel pressure to do it, which I really don't feel is necessary.

The last thing I want is for all my non-Jewish friends texting me to let me know they want me to have an easy fast, lol. I usually don't even fast! I'm a bad Jew.

I am OP - and I think this is a lot of it. The FB post was specifically aimed at other Christians - like, hey, Christians, here are the important Jewish holidays and don't bother your Jewish friends during them, but when you do see your Jewish friends here's what to say. Then of course there was the obligatory "please share" - and I was like, please don't! (In my head, I didn't say anything.)

But yeah, I can't remember the last time I celebrated Rosh Hashana or fasted for Yom Kippur. It feels very othering and presumptuous - and also sort of ignorant about how many of us are secular Jews? - to be lecturing one another about what to say and not say to Jewish people on those days. Just be normal, maybe? Be sensitive that some of your Jewish friends may be observing the holidays, and others may not be - like I don't presume that my Christian friends are totally unavailable on Good Friday but if they told me they'd be out of the office or something I would be fine with that, too.

PP here, and yes. I wonder if one thing that is happening here is that the people doing this are pretty devout Christians, and they assume that people in other religions are devout in the same ways. But I don't keep kosher, fast, or attend temple very often. Assuming that I observe my religion the same way you do is actually kind of limiting.

I disagree with the poster who said "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I think the key is: (1) don't be prejudiced, I'm not going to tolerate anti-semitic comments or actions, this is what I care about the most, and (2) if you're friends with someone, get to know them and maybe ask questions about their faith or religion. Anyone who actually knows me would know I'm not super observant. If someone is wishing me an easy fast, it's a sign that all they know about me is that I'm Jewish (which you could figure out from my name and appearance pretty easily). It's not actually that thoughtful.

What does this have to do with this thread????
If anything, an excellent way to combat and battle anti-semitism is through education and discussion, no?
OP is questioning those very things

[Anonymous]

I have a few fairly religious Jewish friends who regularly ask folks to share the list of high holidays so people don’t schedule important meetings in those days. I think tagging people is a bit much on holiday good wishes but tbf I almost never tag people and rarely post on social media at all so my normalcy calibration might be off. I do see your point about making assumptions about people’s religion, though. If any of these are close friends you can maybe mention it to them another time that it feels odd to be wished greetings as part of a blanket statement without any personal calibration? If acquaintances, I would probably mute them; maybe if their posts get little enough engagement they’ll stop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, well-intentioned but weird. I would roll my eyes hard at the Facebook post which is very obviously virtue signaling. Like even if you make a point to know this stuff and offer appropriate greetings, posting about it to Facebook is just a way of being like "Look how THOUGHTFUL and worldly I am!" I also think it would come off as lecture-y to other non-Jews who might then feel pressure to do it, which I really don't feel is necessary.

The last thing I want is for all my non-Jewish friends texting me to let me know they want me to have an easy fast, lol. I usually don't even fast! I'm a bad Jew.

I am OP - and I think this is a lot of it. The FB post was specifically aimed at other Christians - like, hey, Christians, here are the important Jewish holidays and don't bother your Jewish friends during them, but when you do see your Jewish friends here's what to say. Then of course there was the obligatory "please share" - and I was like, please don't! (In my head, I didn't say anything.)

But yeah, I can't remember the last time I celebrated Rosh Hashana or fasted for Yom Kippur. It feels very othering and presumptuous - and also sort of ignorant about how many of us are secular Jews? - to be lecturing one another about what to say and not say to Jewish people on those days. Just be normal, maybe? Be sensitive that some of your Jewish friends may be observing the holidays, and others may not be - like I don't presume that my Christian friends are totally unavailable on Good Friday but if they told me they'd be out of the office or something I would be fine with that, too.

PP here, and yes. I wonder if one thing that is happening here is that the people doing this are pretty devout Christians, and they assume that people in other religions are devout in the same ways. But I don't keep kosher, fast, or attend temple very often. Assuming that I observe my religion the same way you do is actually kind of limiting.

I disagree with the poster who said "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I think the key is: (1) don't be prejudiced, I'm not going to tolerate anti-semitic comments or actions, this is what I care about the most, and (2) if you're friends with someone, get to know them and maybe ask questions about their faith or religion. Anyone who actually knows me would know I'm not super observant. If someone is wishing me an easy fast, it's a sign that all they know about me is that I'm Jewish (which you could figure out from my name and appearance pretty easily). It's not actually that thoughtful.

What does this have to do with this thread????
If anything, an excellent way to combat and battle anti-semitism is through education and discussion, no?
OP is questioning those very things

How would posting a list of Jewish holidays or making lists of your Jewish friends combat anti-semitism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, want to include that I am Jewish, born and raised.

OP's post is the perfect example of "damned-if-you-do / damned-if-you-don't" Your friends, non-Jewish or Jewish, took the time to express good wishes to you. If you are questioning their motives than perhaps you should also question your definition of friendship.

OP, from your explanation it looks like your non-Jewish friends even took the time to research and learn the most proper ways to express their good wishes for the high holy days. If you ask me, that is wonderful and appreciated.

Agreed.

.

+2. It's like people don't know how to live these days. How hard is it to accept well wishes even if you don't need them? If you want the person to stop sending them to you, just say "thank you, but I actually don't celebrate this this"? We live in a society people.

+100 It is hard to know what to say anymore. People seem to be looking for ways to be offended. It is sad this is where we all are now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, well-intentioned but weird. I would roll my eyes hard at the Facebook post which is very obviously virtue signaling. Like even if you make a point to know this stuff and offer appropriate greetings, posting about it to Facebook is just a way of being like "Look how THOUGHTFUL and worldly I am!" I also think it would come off as lecture-y to other non-Jews who might then feel pressure to do it, which I really don't feel is necessary.

The last thing I want is for all my non-Jewish friends texting me to let me know they want me to have an easy fast, lol. I usually don't even fast! I'm a bad Jew.

I am OP - and I think this is a lot of it. The FB post was specifically aimed at other Christians - like, hey, Christians, here are the important Jewish holidays and don't bother your Jewish friends during them, but when you do see your Jewish friends here's what to say. Then of course there was the obligatory "please share" - and I was like, please don't! (In my head, I didn't say anything.)

But yeah, I can't remember the last time I celebrated Rosh Hashana or fasted for Yom Kippur. It feels very othering and presumptuous - and also sort of ignorant about how many of us are secular Jews? - to be lecturing one another about what to say and not say to Jewish people on those days. Just be normal, maybe? Be sensitive that some of your Jewish friends may be observing the holidays, and others may not be - like I don't presume that my Christian friends are totally unavailable on Good Friday but if they told me they'd be out of the office or something I would be fine with that, too.

PP here, and yes. I wonder if one thing that is happening here is that the people doing this are pretty devout Christians, and they assume that people in other religions are devout in the same ways. But I don't keep kosher, fast, or attend temple very often. Assuming that I observe my religion the same way you do is actually kind of limiting.

I disagree with the poster who said "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I think the key is: (1) don't be prejudiced, I'm not going to tolerate anti-semitic comments or actions, this is what I care about the most, and (2) if you're friends with someone, get to know them and maybe ask questions about their faith or religion. Anyone who actually knows me would know I'm not super observant. If someone is wishing me an easy fast, it's a sign that all they know about me is that I'm Jewish (which you could figure out from my name and appearance pretty easily). It's not actually that thoughtful.

What does this have to do with this thread????
If anything, an excellent way to combat and battle anti-semitism is through education and discussion, no?
OP is questioning those very things

How would posting a list of Jewish holidays or making lists of your Jewish friends combat anti-semitism?

You obviously don't get it. I am out on this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, well-intentioned but weird. I would roll my eyes hard at the Facebook post which is very obviously virtue signaling. Like even if you make a point to know this stuff and offer appropriate greetings, posting about it to Facebook is just a way of being like "Look how THOUGHTFUL and worldly I am!" I also think it would come off as lecture-y to other non-Jews who might then feel pressure to do it, which I really don't feel is necessary.

The last thing I want is for all my non-Jewish friends texting me to let me know they want me to have an easy fast, lol. I usually don't even fast! I'm a bad Jew.

I am OP - and I think this is a lot of it. The FB post was specifically aimed at other Christians - like, hey, Christians, here are the important Jewish holidays and don't bother your Jewish friends during them, but when you do see your Jewish friends here's what to say. Then of course there was the obligatory "please share" - and I was like, please don't! (In my head, I didn't say anything.)

But yeah, I can't remember the last time I celebrated Rosh Hashana or fasted for Yom Kippur. It feels very othering and presumptuous - and also sort of ignorant about how many of us are secular Jews? - to be lecturing one another about what to say and not say to Jewish people on those days. Just be normal, maybe? Be sensitive that some of your Jewish friends may be observing the holidays, and others may not be - like I don't presume that my Christian friends are totally unavailable on Good Friday but if they told me they'd be out of the office or something I would be fine with that, too.

PP here, and yes. I wonder if one thing that is happening here is that the people doing this are pretty devout Christians, and they assume that people in other religions are devout in the same ways. But I don't keep kosher, fast, or attend temple very often. Assuming that I observe my religion the same way you do is actually kind of limiting.

I disagree with the poster who said "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I think the key is: (1) don't be prejudiced, I'm not going to tolerate anti-semitic comments or actions, this is what I care about the most, and (2) if you're friends with someone, get to know them and maybe ask questions about their faith or religion. Anyone who actually knows me would know I'm not super observant. If someone is wishing me an easy fast, it's a sign that all they know about me is that I'm Jewish (which you could figure out from my name and appearance pretty easily). It's not actually that thoughtful.

What does this have to do with this thread????
If anything, an excellent way to combat and battle anti-semitism is through education and discussion, no?
OP is questioning those very things

My point is that I don't need people to wish me well on Jewish holidays, as long as they are not anti-semitic. When it comes to tolerance and inclusivity, which is absolutely the topic of this thread, the most important thing to me is that people are not prejudiced against me or anyone else because we are Jewish.

I've absolutely known people who would take pains to learn what chag sameach means and when to use it, but also think that Jews control the media. So I don't really care if a non-Jew uses the correct greeting for a Jewish holiday, as long as they aren't anti-semitic and don't subscribe to any of the many dangerous/troubling ideas about Jews that you see continuing to crop up out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a few fairly religious Jewish friends who regularly ask folks to share the list of high holidays so people don’t schedule important meetings in those days. I think tagging people is a bit much on holiday good wishes but tbf I almost never tag people and rarely post on social media at all so my normalcy calibration might be off. I do see your point about making assumptions about people’s religion, though. If any of these are close friends you can maybe mention it to them another time that it feels odd to be wished greetings as part of a blanket statement without any personal calibration? If acquaintances, I would probably mute them; maybe if their posts get little enough engagement they’ll stop?

I am not close enough with either of them to say anything - and honestly I'm not even sure what I'd say. I don't have an argument for NOT doing this - it just feels off to me. There's nothing I can point to and say, "you shouldn't do this and here's why" - I just feel like it's a weird thing to have non-Jews posting about Jewish holidays, and presuming to share some expertise.

The thing my friend shred about the holidays was originally put up by someone who went to a Lutheran theology school (I see in his profile) then got shared something like 4,000 times. It's not objectionable in content - it just feels weird for someone who is a Christian to be holding himself up as an expert in how to be considerate to the Jews around their holidays (which obviously we can't presume anyone is already familiar with since of course Jews are other and exotic). It feels weird is all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a few fairly religious Jewish friends who regularly ask folks to share the list of high holidays so people don’t schedule important meetings in those days. I think tagging people is a bit much on holiday good wishes but tbf I almost never tag people and rarely post on social media at all so my normalcy calibration might be off. I do see your point about making assumptions about people’s religion, though. If any of these are close friends you can maybe mention it to them another time that it feels odd to be wished greetings as part of a blanket statement without any personal calibration? If acquaintances, I would probably mute them; maybe if their posts get little enough engagement they’ll stop?

It makes sense to circulate a list of high holy days for practical reasons makes sense. That's not what OP is talking about though.

[Anonymous]

It's performative. I get especially annoyed when I see people who post "Happy Ramadan for all my muslim friends" when I know full well they don't have any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few fairly religious Jewish friends who regularly ask folks to share the list of high holidays so people don’t schedule important meetings in those days. I think tagging people is a bit much on holiday good wishes but tbf I almost never tag people and rarely post on social media at all so my normalcy calibration might be off. I do see your point about making assumptions about people’s religion, though. If any of these are close friends you can maybe mention it to them another time that it feels odd to be wished greetings as part of a blanket statement without any personal calibration? If acquaintances, I would probably mute them; maybe if their posts get little enough engagement they’ll stop?

I am not close enough with either of them to say anything - and honestly I'm not even sure what I'd say. I don't have an argument for NOT doing this - it just feels off to me. There's nothing I can point to and say, "you shouldn't do this and here's why" - I just feel like it's a weird thing to have non-Jews posting about Jewish holidays, and presuming to share some expertise.

The thing my friend shred about the holidays was originally put up by someone who went to a Lutheran theology school (I see in his profile) then got shared something like 4,000 times. It's not objectionable in content - it just feels weird for someone who is a Christian to be holding himself up as an expert in how to be considerate to the Jews around their holidays (which obviously we can't presume anyone is already familiar with since of course Jews are other and exotic). It feels weird is all!

I’m the PP. I do get the weirdness — putting your friends’ Jewishness before who they are as a person it sounds like you’re saying? And compounded by cultural appropriation vibes; I think it’s great for lutherans to be aware of Jewish holidays (for the professional disadvantage reasons I’ve listed above) and polite about but ideally they should share this information from Jewish sources. But yeah unless they’re really good friends, getting in an internet debate about it would probably be an exercise in frustration hence my suggestion of muting. Social media algorithms thrive on negative engagement so I’m a big fan of trying redirect all my irritation into not engaging.