Do you think Donald Trump would abide by the 22nd amendment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The constitution’s 22nd amendment states that no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice.

Article II states that the President shall hold his office during the term of four years.

Given the events of January 6, 2021, do you think Donald Trump will voluntarily relinquish the presidency in January of 2029—as required by the constitution—if he wins the 2024 election?

No.

Do you think Trump would cancel the 2028 election, and presumably all future elections? Or would he just run again in 2028 and then refuse to accept the results if he loses?

I have often wondered what would happen if he won again and then wanted to run again for a third term counter to the Constitution. I think technically the states would have to refuse to put him on the ballot because he would be ineligible, just as ineligible as someone who is only 30, or someone who was actually born in Kenya. But lord knows there are about 20 or more states that would put him on the ballot anyway, Constitution be damned. So then someone would have to have standing to sue to get him removed. How would that work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The constitution’s 22nd amendment states that no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice.

Article II states that the President shall hold his office during the term of four years.

Given the events of January 6, 2021, do you think Donald Trump will voluntarily relinquish the presidency in January of 2029—as required by the constitution—if he wins the 2024 election?

No.

Do you think Trump would cancel the 2028 election, and presumably all future elections? Or would he just run again in 2028 and then refuse to accept the results if he loses?

I have often wondered what would happen if he won again and then wanted to run again for a third term counter to the Constitution. I think technically the states would have to refuse to put him on the ballot because he would be ineligible, just as ineligible as someone who is only 30, or someone who was actually born in Kenya. But lord knows there are about 20 or more states that would put him on the ballot anyway, Constitution be damned. So then someone would have to have standing to sue to get him removed. How would that work?

I don’t know, but FWIW my expectation is that in a “second” term Trump will not be squeamish about appointing extreme loyalists in critical positions. If we get to that point, where is the buffer? Who will have the authority to tell him what he can and can’t do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The constitution’s 22nd amendment states that no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice.

Article II states that the President shall hold his office during the term of four years.

Given the events of January 6, 2021, do you think Donald Trump will voluntarily relinquish the presidency in January of 2029—as required by the constitution—if he wins the 2024 election?

No.

Do you think Trump would cancel the 2028 election, and presumably all future elections? Or would he just run again in 2028 and then refuse to accept the results if he loses?

I have often wondered what would happen if he won again and then wanted to run again for a third term counter to the Constitution. I think technically the states would have to refuse to put him on the ballot because he would be ineligible, just as ineligible as someone who is only 30, or someone who was actually born in Kenya. But lord knows there are about 20 or more states that would put him on the ballot anyway, Constitution be damned. So then someone would have to have standing to sue to get him removed. How would that work?

I don’t know, but FWIW my expectation is that in a “second” term Trump will not be squeamish about appointing extreme loyalists in critical positions. If we get to that point, where is the buffer? Who will have the authority to tell him what he can and can’t do?

The bolded is key. Trump already signed an Executive Order before he left office to do just that:

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/trump-presidency-schedule-f-federal-employees

People talking about court decisions and asking how would he stay are operating under the long held norms in this country that Trump has no intention of operating under. Here are things (not an exhaustive list) Trump (and his associates) did during his initial term that violated the law and/or norms:

-Repeated violations of the letter and spirit of the vacancies law. This allowed people in positions requiring Senate confirmation to wield power illegally, and the norm violated is the Acting Director of X should maintain the status quo and not initiate large changes/big decisions:
-Ordered the head of the GSA to not cooperate with the Biden campaign during the transition- violation of a long held norm;
-Deployed unidentified federal forces to guard sites in Washington, DC in Summer 2020 (private army type stuff);
-Cooked up a fake elector scheme;
-Instigated an insurrection to target a particularly vulnerable part of our electoral process;
-Refused (and continues to refuse) to concede and election he lost in an attempt to de-legitimize the winner and current President;
-Worked to sow doubt in the integrity of our electoral process;
-Refused to appear at the ceremony transferring power to his successor.

I think most Americans don't pay attention or can't really conceive of "it happening here," but it absolutely can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how he’s running again for 2024 since he already won twice. Isn’t he ineligible? Can someone help me out here?

LOL I would love for someone to ask him that.

“Sir, since you won the 2016 election and contend that you won the 2020 election, how are you eligible to run in the 2024 election?”

[Anonymous]

The NYT and some other publications recently had articles talking about the executive power grab being planned right now by allies of Trump in preparation for another Trump term.
From the NYT:

"Donald J. Trump and his allies are planning a sweeping expansion of presidential power over the machinery of government if voters return him to the White House in 2025, reshaping the structure of the executive branch to concentrate far greater authority directly in his hands.

Mr. Trump and his associates have a broader goal: to alter the balance of power by increasing the president’s authority over every part of the federal government that now operates, by either law or tradition, with any measure of independence from political interference by the White House, according to a review of his campaign policy proposals and interviews with people close to him.

Mr. Trump intends to bring independent agencies — like the Federal Communications Commission, which makes and enforces rules for television and internet companies, and the Federal Trade Commission, which enforces various antitrust and other consumer protection rules against businesses — under direct presidential control.

He wants to revive the practice of “impounding” funds, refusing to spend money Congress has appropriated for programs a president doesn’t like — a tactic that lawmakers banned under President Richard Nixon.

He intends to strip employment protections from tens of thousands of career civil servants, making it easier to replace them if they are deemed obstacles to his agenda. And he plans to scour the intelligence agencies, the State Department and the defense bureaucracies to remove officials he has vilified as “the sick political class that hates our country.”

“The president’s plan should be to fundamentally reorient the federal government in a way that hasn’t been done since F.D.R.’s New Deal,” said John McEntee, a former White House personnel chief who began Mr. Trump’s systematic attempt to sweep out officials deemed to be disloyal in 2020 and who is now involved in mapping out the new approach.

“What we’re trying to do is identify the pockets of independence and seize them,” said Russell T. Vought, who ran the Office of Management and Budget in the Trump White House and now runs a policy organization, the Center for Renewing America."

Apparently, "Mr. Trump and his advisers are making no secret of their intentions — proclaiming them in rallies and on his campaign website, describing them in white papers and openly discussing them."

Trump and Allies Forge Plans to Increase Presidential Power in 2025
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/17/us/politics/trump-plans-2025.html#:~:text=Donald%20J.%20Trump%20and%20his,authority%20directly%20in%20his%20hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The NYT and some other publications recently had articles talking about the executive power grab being planned right now by allies of Trump in preparation for another Trump term.
From the NYT:

"Donald J. Trump and his allies are planning a sweeping expansion of presidential power over the machinery of government if voters return him to the White House in 2025, reshaping the structure of the executive branch to concentrate far greater authority directly in his hands.

Mr. Trump and his associates have a broader goal: to alter the balance of power by increasing the president’s authority over every part of the federal government that now operates, by either law or tradition, with any measure of independence from political interference by the White House, according to a review of his campaign policy proposals and interviews with people close to him.

Mr. Trump intends to bring independent agencies — like the Federal Communications Commission, which makes and enforces rules for television and internet companies, and the Federal Trade Commission, which enforces various antitrust and other consumer protection rules against businesses — under direct presidential control.

He wants to revive the practice of “impounding” funds, refusing to spend money Congress has appropriated for programs a president doesn’t like — a tactic that lawmakers banned under President Richard Nixon.

He intends to strip employment protections from tens of thousands of career civil servants, making it easier to replace them if they are deemed obstacles to his agenda. And he plans to scour the intelligence agencies, the State Department and the defense bureaucracies to remove officials he has vilified as “the sick political class that hates our country.”

“The president’s plan should be to fundamentally reorient the federal government in a way that hasn’t been done since F.D.R.’s New Deal,” said John McEntee, a former White House personnel chief who began Mr. Trump’s systematic attempt to sweep out officials deemed to be disloyal in 2020 and who is now involved in mapping out the new approach.

“What we’re trying to do is identify the pockets of independence and seize them,” said Russell T. Vought, who ran the Office of Management and Budget in the Trump White House and now runs a policy organization, the Center for Renewing America."

Apparently, "Mr. Trump and his advisers are making no secret of their intentions — proclaiming them in rallies and on his campaign website, describing them in white papers and openly discussing them."

Trump and Allies Forge Plans to Increase Presidential Power in 2025
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/17/us/politics/trump-plans-2025.html#:~:text=Donald%20J.%20Trump%20and%20his,authority%20directly%20in%20his%20hands.

Why go to all of this trouble if the expectation is that Trump will voluntarily give up the presidency in 4 years, as required by the 22nd amendment?

[Anonymous]

Let’s say the republicans change the number of terms a president can serve legally. This would mean Obama could run again. He would destroy trump.

Also let not forget Bill Clinton and George Bush who were both born in the same year as Trump….and Trump is the oldest of the three…lol

[Anonymous]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/02/trump-indictment-jan-6-election-charges/

Given yesterday’s indictment, does anyone have confidence that Trump would voluntarily give up the presidency and transfer power—as required by the 22nd amendment—in January 2029? Isn’t this the most important issue of the 2024 election?

[Anonymous]

Hells no.

I’m sure one of his priorities in being elected would be figuring out how he can stay in office until he dies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hells no.

I’m sure one of his priorities in being elected would be figuring out how he can stay in office until he dies

Since even Trump’s supporters aren’t disputing this—at least not here—is this what we should assume? Damn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/02/trump-indictment-jan-6-election-charges/

Given yesterday’s indictment, does anyone have confidence that Trump would voluntarily give up the presidency and transfer power—as required by the 22nd amendment—in January 2029? Isn’t this the most important issue of the 2024 election?

If he wins there will be no constitution. So there will be no 22nd amendment.

[Anonymous]

According to the indictment—page 30, paragraph 81–when told that there would be “riots in every major city in the United States” if Trump refused to accept the election results and leave office, “Co-conspirator 4” said, “Well, that’s why there’s an Insurrection Act.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to the indictment—page 30, paragraph 81–when told that there would be “riots in every major city in the United States” if Trump refused to accept the election results and leave office, “Co-conspirator 4” said, “Well, that’s why there’s an Insurrection Act.”

Yep. Trump gets elected again and that's the end of elections for most of us. Assume the GOP would be thrilled.

[Anonymous]

Robert Kagan raises this issue in the Washington Post today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

What about the desire for reelection, a factor that constrains most presidents? Trump might not want or need a third term, but were he to decide he wanted one, as he has sometimes indicated, would the 22nd Amendment block him any more effectively from being president for life than the Supreme Court, if he refused to be blocked? Why should anyone think that amendment would be more sacrosanct than any other part of the Constitution for a man like Trump, or perhaps more importantly, for his devoted supporters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The constitution’s 22nd amendment states that no person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice.

Article II states that the President shall hold his office during the term of four years.

Given the events of January 6, 2021, do you think Donald Trump will voluntarily relinquish the presidency in January of 2029—as required by the constitution—if he wins the 2024 election?

Nope. Only if it serves his interest to do so, or if he's actually physically incapable. America is lucky in one respect - Trump didn't get involved in politics until he was elderly. That's a lucky break.