People with good parents/nice childhoods who are selfish, unkind, unempathetic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this happen? I have encountered several people like this. Very loving families, would themselves describe their parents and families as loving, supportive, and functional and also it looks that way via observation. No childhood trauma or evidence of abuse/neglect. Continued support into adulthood.

But then they are jerks. Or have the capacity to be jerks in certain circumstances where it's surprising to see it come out. I know several women with this background, for instance, who are total "mean girl" gossips -- spread nasty rumors about women they claim they are friends with, can be very selfish with their time, demand attention and can be petty or cruel if they don't feel they get it.

How does this happen? I thought good parenting was supposed to address behaviors like this. Were they too doted on? Favorite daughters whose behavior didn't get corrected? I always figured people who acted like this were acting out of insecurity and some kind of childhood wound, but perhaps I was wrong.

Asking partly out of curiosity, and partly because I want to avoid raising a person who behaves this way in adulthood.

So many assumptions, so little time, OP.

Truth is, you have zero idea what people are going through.

That's... not an answer. If it isn't family dysfunction or poor parenting that causes this behavior, what is it? What are people "going through" that causes people with good parents and happy childhoods to be unkind or even cruel?

Grief
Illness
Divorce
Addiction
Adultery
Financial troubles
Job instability

Or any other adverse condition that happens to adults over their lifetime

The people I'm talking about are not going through divorce, illness, job instability, or financial troubles. And they are protected from the last two because of comfortable backgrounds that helped ensure they started out life with the best possible education and a lot of financial stability.

Why would someone with loving, supportive family and no childhood trauma develop addiction issues? Does that actually happen? Everyone I know with addiction and mental health issues can trace it at least in part to childhood issues.

So that leaves grief and adultery. Which sure, can befall anyone. But shouldn't someone from a loving, supportive, UMC or UC home know of ways to handle those things that don't involve treating other people terribly?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but these responses are still not explaining why someone who has the background we'd all like to give our children (presumably) would behave in ways that are unequivocally unkind.

I mean, I dated a woman who came from a really kind, supportive UMC family, and she had zero conflict resolution skills because her parents never modeled that for her. They always did the whisper arguments behind closed doors so their kids would never hear them "fighting". She assumed that if a couple argued that meant the relationship was over.

So, unless you modeled specific coping strategies for your kids for all scenarios (impossible) , they might struggle to react perfectly as adults to various adverse situations.

Good point. Thinking about the examples I've seen, perhaps some of these people did not have the chance to see their parents model more functional, pro-social friendships and behavior as kids, if maybe the family was more internally focused and didn't socialize a ton.

And/or maybe they learned this behavior in school and because their families didn't socialize a ton with other families, their parents didn't have a chance to observe and correct the behavior. Thinking now about one specific person I know who attended all-girls schools all the way through high school that probably had at least some of this kind of behavior -- maybe her parents didn't realize what she was learning socially at the school and it influenced her as much or more than what I perceive to be their much better examples of how to behave in the world.

[Anonymous]

Lack of any sort of adversity in life can make a person very unempathetic. Also, it could be that this person feels entitled to always be on top of the social hierarchy, because that’s what s/he is used to or was led to believe is their right based on what they were led to believe.

[Anonymous]

My answer is: because they can!
Not always hit often people are nice because they think they will be rejected if they are not. If they know that they won’t be rejected or don’t care about rejection by those “beneath them”, they don’t need to be nice.
I don’t know why they would take the extra effort to be unkind and not just “not nice”, maybe they have extra time on their hands or enjoy their power.
Also I think people don’t always learn the lessons their family teaches them. Or the family doesn’t teach kindness specifically.

[Anonymous]

How did your parents raise you that you are an overconfident simpleton? You do not know what’s going on with these people nor what their childhoods were actually like. Furthermore, if you find them do distasteful you should stop being friends with them rather than being such a judgey mean girl yourself.

[Anonymous]

The people I know who are the kindest, most empathetic, and selfless, are the actually the people who HAVE had childhood trauma.

Growing up with too much comfort means people lack experience with hardship, and they have trouble relating to the world around them. They just don't see it.

But those of us who've dealt with hardship from a young age, are attuned to the pains and it's helped us tremendously in how we treat others. For the most part, but not always.

[Anonymous]

There are some people who are just born so resilient that no matter what trauma or circumstance they face they will persevere and be successful. Then there are other people born so emotionally fragile that no matter what privilege or loving, supportive environment they have they’re self destructive and make horrible decisions.

Most people fall in the middle. If they have a relatively loving and supportive environment they can flourish and succeed but if faced with too many traumas they will suffer. I have a cousin who had incredibly loving parents, received tremendous family support, had a very nice childhood and he just can’t kick his drug habit. He’s a nice guy and everyone likes him, but the pot and cocaine habit ruined his college so he dropped out, he ended up divorced and he can’t keep a regular job. On the flip side my upbringing was full of trauma (parents who hoarded and one with a drinking problem) and I have a very clean house, stable marriage, good job and a nice group of friends. My two siblings are both hot messes.

Sometimes it’s just the person.

[Anonymous]

Two things I take issue with in this premise:

1. People are “good” or “bad.” No, OP. People are people. Even the nicest people sometimes do mean things in times of stress or just because they aren’t sensitive to someone else’s situation. Mean people can be incredibly generous. Ordinary people have mean habits and nice ones.

2. Parents are “good parents” or “bad parents.” Again, no. Some parents are good with one type of kid but bad with another. Some parents are as good as they know how to be but it’s bad for the kids they have. Sometimes the parents’ personalities and interests and approach to life is just oil and water to the kid, even though the parent is trying their hardest. That can cause trauma/issues that wouldn’t necessarily look traumatic to an outsider.

About the specific example of queen bee lady who was loved and lucky all her life: this is what we call spoiled usually. My armchair psychologist assessment would be that she gossips and such because she’s never experienced real hardship and lacks the imagination to understand it and consequently doesn’t understand how hurtful her actions are since she’s had such a charmed life. Also since she has a strong and loving family circle, if/when her friends spread rumours about her it doesn’t really make a dent so again she fails to realize that others are more vulnerable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this happen? I have encountered several people like this. Very loving families, would themselves describe their parents and families as loving, supportive, and functional and also it looks that way via observation. No childhood trauma or evidence of abuse/neglect. Continued support into adulthood.

But then they are jerks. Or have the capacity to be jerks in certain circumstances where it's surprising to see it come out. I know several women with this background, for instance, who are total "mean girl" gossips -- spread nasty rumors about women they claim they are friends with, can be very selfish with their time, demand attention and can be petty or cruel if they don't feel they get it.

How does this happen? I thought good parenting was supposed to address behaviors like this. Were they too doted on? Favorite daughters whose behavior didn't get corrected? I always figured people who acted like this were acting out of insecurity and some kind of childhood wound, but perhaps I was wrong.

Asking partly out of curiosity, and partly because I want to avoid raising a person who behaves this way in adulthood.

So many assumptions, so little time, OP.

Truth is, you have zero idea what people are going through.

That's... not an answer. If it isn't family dysfunction or poor parenting that causes this behavior, what is it? What are people "going through" that causes people with good parents and happy childhoods to be unkind or even cruel?

Grief
Illness
Divorce
Addiction
Adultery
Financial troubles
Job instability

Or any other adverse condition that happens to adults over their lifetime

The people I'm talking about are not going through divorce, illness, job instability, or financial troubles. And they are protected from the last two because of comfortable backgrounds that helped ensure they started out life with the best possible education and a lot of financial stability.

Why would someone with loving, supportive family and no childhood trauma develop addiction issues? Does that actually happen? Everyone I know with addiction and mental health issues can trace it at least in part to childhood issues.

So that leaves grief and adultery. Which sure, can befall anyone. But shouldn't someone from a loving, supportive, UMC or UC home know of ways to handle those things that don't involve treating other people terribly?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but these responses are still not explaining why someone who has the background we'd all like to give our children (presumably) would behave in ways that are unequivocally unkind.

You think that $$ and parenting can control everything. It can't. People have innate personalities, they have peer groups separate from their family, etc. Parents don't have complete control over how their kids turn out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two things I take issue with in this premise:

1. People are “good” or “bad.” No, OP. People are people. Even the nicest people sometimes do mean things in times of stress or just because they aren’t sensitive to someone else’s situation. Mean people can be incredibly generous. Ordinary people have mean habits and nice ones.

2. Parents are “good parents” or “bad parents.” Again, no. Some parents are good with one type of kid but bad with another. Some parents are as good as they know how to be but it’s bad for the kids they have. Sometimes the parents’ personalities and interests and approach to life is just oil and water to the kid, even though the parent is trying their hardest. That can cause trauma/issues that wouldn’t necessarily look traumatic to an outsider.

About the specific example of queen bee lady who was loved and lucky all her life: this is what we call spoiled usually. My armchair psychologist assessment would be that she gossips and such because she’s never experienced real hardship and lacks the imagination to understand it and consequently doesn’t understand how hurtful her actions are since she’s had such a charmed life. Also since she has a strong and loving family circle, if/when her friends spread rumours about her it doesn’t really make a dent so again she fails to realize that others are more vulnerable.

+1 to all of this.

Also, there is also something to the idea that people who don't really have any hardships in their lives don't necessarily have a lot of empathy for others.

[Anonymous]

My neighbor meets your description. She’s not unkind, but just clueless about adversity of others. She was born UMC, worked three years for a friend of her parents, got married and never worked another day. She gets anxious about the tiniest little things because she’s never had a real problem in her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor meets your description. She’s not unkind, but just clueless about adversity of others. She was born UMC, worked three years for a friend of her parents, got married and never worked another day. She gets anxious about the tiniest little things because she’s never had a real problem in her life.

Anxiety is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does this happen? I have encountered several people like this. Very loving families, would themselves describe their parents and families as loving, supportive, and functional and also it looks that way via observation. No childhood trauma or evidence of abuse/neglect. Continued support into adulthood.

But then they are jerks. Or have the capacity to be jerks in certain circumstances where it's surprising to see it come out. I know several women with this background, for instance, who are total "mean girl" gossips -- spread nasty rumors about women they claim they are friends with, can be very selfish with their time, demand attention and can be petty or cruel if they don't feel they get it.

How does this happen? I thought good parenting was supposed to address behaviors like this. Were they too doted on? Favorite daughters whose behavior didn't get corrected? I always figured people who acted like this were acting out of insecurity and some kind of childhood wound, but perhaps I was wrong.

Asking partly out of curiosity, and partly because I want to avoid raising a person who behaves this way in adulthood.

Some people who have not experienced hardship have a hard time empathizing with people who do. Some people have empathy from the get go and some people need to learn it. For those that need to learn it and their life has been easy, they end up with a warped view. It is a way to explain, to themselves, why they have what they have. They think they think they have achieved and have what they have because they have done the right things and done the “hard work”. Luck or circumstance plays no role. Therefore, they think, people who have less or have achieved less did the “wrong” things. It creates a superiority sort of feeling where everyone else is less than. They then go on to treat people as such.

[Anonymous]

If only we could guarantee good values and kind behavior through parenting. People come into this world with their own personalities, we aren't total blank slates. Peer groups also have increasing influence as kids get older. We can do our best to try to guide them but they aren't living in a bubble that we control.

I don't think all faults are traceable to childhood traumas or parental mistakes, but I wonder why you do, OP? Do you think parents do have a complete ability to shape the emotional and moral growth of their kids, at the level that we can overrule any influence of genetics, chances and peers? Is this a comforting explanation in some way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this happen? I have encountered several people like this. Very loving families, would themselves describe their parents and families as loving, supportive, and functional and also it looks that way via observation. No childhood trauma or evidence of abuse/neglect. Continued support into adulthood.

But then they are jerks. Or have the capacity to be jerks in certain circumstances where it's surprising to see it come out. I know several women with this background, for instance, who are total "mean girl" gossips -- spread nasty rumors about women they claim they are friends with, can be very selfish with their time, demand attention and can be petty or cruel if they don't feel they get it.

How does this happen? I thought good parenting was supposed to address behaviors like this. Were they too doted on? Favorite daughters whose behavior didn't get corrected? I always figured people who acted like this were acting out of insecurity and some kind of childhood wound, but perhaps I was wrong.

Asking partly out of curiosity, and partly because I want to avoid raising a person who behaves this way in adulthood.

So many assumptions, so little time, OP.

Truth is, you have zero idea what people are going through.

That's... not an answer. If it isn't family dysfunction or poor parenting that causes this behavior, what is it? What are people "going through" that causes people with good parents and happy childhoods to be unkind or even cruel?

Grief
Illness
Divorce
Addiction
Adultery
Financial troubles
Job instability

Or any other adverse condition that happens to adults over their lifetime

The people I'm talking about are not going through divorce, illness, job instability, or financial troubles. And they are protected from the last two because of comfortable backgrounds that helped ensure they started out life with the best possible education and a lot of financial stability.

Why would someone with loving, supportive family and no childhood trauma develop addiction issues? Does that actually happen? Everyone I know with addiction and mental health issues can trace it at least in part to childhood issues.

So that leaves grief and adultery. Which sure, can befall anyone. But shouldn't someone from a loving, supportive, UMC or UC home know of ways to handle those things that don't involve treating other people terribly?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but these responses are still not explaining why someone who has the background we'd all like to give our children (presumably) would behave in ways that are unequivocally unkind.

I am a very pleasant person, one of the friendliest you will meet. Everyone told me forever how great my parents were. They were not great parents and terrible role models. To this day, people think we are super close. We aren’t.

There was no abuse. But they weren’t good parents - though they did try hard. Most anyone who knows us would think I am being ungrateful. I constantly hear what a great family I have. But they weren’t good parents. I got through it but it created a mental grit that few realize about me.

Unless you have some secret knowledge of what living with the parents for 18 years was actually like, you have no idea how parents shape their kids.

[Anonymous]

If lack of any hardship can make people unempathetic, what can parents who raising kids do to teach empathy to children who have very nice lives? I grew up with abusive parents and am very empathetic, but I’m seeking to end the cycle of abuse as a parent. What can I do to ensure my kids still have empathy?