Should MCPS be sued too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore City Public Schools is being sued for defrauding tax payers. https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-crump-city-schools-suit-20220706-b3zaf3sn2vfcjdjzmvxqsfd5hm-story.html

Should MCPS also be sued? Attendance record keeping has been abysmal at my child’s school. Grades mean nothing and students received 50% for not doing assignments. The net result is that students are being denied a quality public education and students have gaps from the lower standards.

I’m a parent too. I make sure my kids are in school. I make sure they understand the importance of a good education and emphasize that while grades don’t matter, they should always do their best. I make sure they study. I ask them questions about their day. I help them if they have homework questions. It’s not MCPS’s job to do that-it’s mine. I’m the parent. MCPS absolutely does their part. I do mine.

Do your job.

No. No one should be suing MCPS. Parents should be parenting their kids.

Agree and these lazy parents are so toxic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Student outcomes should not be dictated by race or social economic status. Yet there are huge disparities when groups are broken out and even compared school by school.

Once again for the folks in the back of the room…

Education requires schools, community culture prioritizing education and parents working together. While it’s a nice thought to imagine schools can make up for the lack of the other two, it’s not possible. Across the board equal outcomes will never be a thing. We can’t hold back the kids who want to learn in favor of the ones who don’t. Is it sad? Yes, terribly. Should we do a great deal to support kids who don’t have the same advantages, of course! Does a gap mean the school should be sued? No, that’s ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When someone digs a little deeper, the MCPS skeletons will be uncovered. The achievement gap between special populations have plagued MCPS for decades.

Skeletons? Every school system has problems with the achievement gap between "special" populations. You make it sound like this is some hidden deep dark secret when the data is out there for everyone to see. The issue is the only people who care about that are parents of the "special" population. This isn't something MCPS is doing intentionally. No one knows what to do to fix this. If the special ed population is who you are referring to, none of the school systems does a very good job and most try to pretend like the kids don't exist. It's going to get worse because of teacher shortages which mean not only fewer teachers but out of desperation they hire people they never should hire.

If it's minority students you're referring to, programs have been tried and numerous studies have been done. I know good educators who are so frustrated by this themselves not knowing what to do to remedy this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone digs a little deeper, the MCPS skeletons will be uncovered. The achievement gap between special populations have plagued MCPS for decades.

Skeletons? Every school system has problems with the achievement gap between "special" populations. You make it sound like this is some hidden deep dark secret when the data is out there for everyone to see. The issue is the only people who care about that are parents of the "special" population. This isn't something MCPS is doing intentionally. No one knows what to do to fix this. If the special ed population is who you are referring to, none of the school systems does a very good job and most try to pretend like the kids don't exist. It's going to get worse because of teacher shortages which mean not only fewer teachers but out of desperation they hire people they never should hire.

If it's minority students you're referring to, programs have been tried and numerous studies have been done. I know good educators who are so frustrated by this themselves not knowing what to do to remedy this.

I often think of the saying you can lead a horse to water. Education is about providing opportunities. The demographics of the county have changed radically over the past few decades. This impacts test score averages. It doesn't mean that there is less opportunity to obtain a first-rate education; however, many students just aren't interested. I don't have the answers but I often wonder if maybe we should meet kids where they are instead of insisting that everyone go to college or take advanced math.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Stop pushing college on everyone. Unless it becomes free, only the top students from low income families are going to go and complete a 4 year degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone digs a little deeper, the MCPS skeletons will be uncovered. The achievement gap between special populations have plagued MCPS for decades.

Skeletons? Every school system has problems with the achievement gap between "special" populations. You make it sound like this is some hidden deep dark secret when the data is out there for everyone to see. The issue is the only people who care about that are parents of the "special" population. This isn't something MCPS is doing intentionally. No one knows what to do to fix this. If the special ed population is who you are referring to, none of the school systems does a very good job and most try to pretend like the kids don't exist. It's going to get worse because of teacher shortages which mean not only fewer teachers but out of desperation they hire people they never should hire.

If it's minority students you're referring to, programs have been tried and numerous studies have been done. I know good educators who are so frustrated by this themselves not knowing what to do to remedy this.

I often think of the saying you can lead a horse to water. Education is about providing opportunities. The demographics of the county have changed radically over the past few decades. This impacts test score averages. It doesn't mean that there is less opportunity to obtain a first-rate education; however, many students just aren't interested. I don't have the answers but I often wonder if maybe we should meet kids where they are instead of insisting that everyone go to college or take advanced math.

We don't insist that everyone go to college or take advanced math. MCPS has been increasing the number of programs for career preparation in high school, and there are lots of interesting options. Kids should be encouraged to explore these and not feel stigmatized about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone digs a little deeper, the MCPS skeletons will be uncovered. The achievement gap between special populations have plagued MCPS for decades.

Skeletons? Every school system has problems with the achievement gap between "special" populations. You make it sound like this is some hidden deep dark secret when the data is out there for everyone to see. The issue is the only people who care about that are parents of the "special" population. This isn't something MCPS is doing intentionally. No one knows what to do to fix this. If the special ed population is who you are referring to, none of the school systems does a very good job and most try to pretend like the kids don't exist. It's going to get worse because of teacher shortages which mean not only fewer teachers but out of desperation they hire people they never should hire.

If it's minority students you're referring to, programs have been tried and numerous studies have been done. I know good educators who are so frustrated by this themselves not knowing what to do to remedy this.

I often think of the saying you can lead a horse to water. Education is about providing opportunities. The demographics of the county have changed radically over the past few decades. This impacts test score averages. It doesn't mean that there is less opportunity to obtain a first-rate education; however, many students just aren't interested. I don't have the answers but I often wonder if maybe we should meet kids where they are instead of insisting that everyone go to college or take advanced math.

We don't insist that everyone go to college or take advanced math. MCPS has been increasing the number of programs for career preparation in high school, and there are lots of interesting options. Kids should be encouraged to explore these and not feel stigmatized about them.

So much of HS seems geared toward this though and we even rank HS based on college readiness. This seems kind of silly in low-income areas where there is lower college participation. Now don't get me wrong I feel we should help everyone pursue that if that's their goal. I just don't think we should make it the default.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure. Go for it. Even more resources will go to legal defense than to teacher and support staff pay. Seems like a great idea!

If this will result in quality education for students, I think its worth ever penny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone digs a little deeper, the MCPS skeletons will be uncovered. The achievement gap between special populations have plagued MCPS for decades.

Skeletons? Every school system has problems with the achievement gap between "special" populations. You make it sound like this is some hidden deep dark secret when the data is out there for everyone to see. The issue is the only people who care about that are parents of the "special" population. This isn't something MCPS is doing intentionally. No one knows what to do to fix this. If the special ed population is who you are referring to, none of the school systems does a very good job and most try to pretend like the kids don't exist. It's going to get worse because of teacher shortages which mean not only fewer teachers but out of desperation they hire people they never should hire.

If it's minority students you're referring to, programs have been tried and numerous studies have been done. I know good educators who are so frustrated by this themselves not knowing what to do to remedy this.

I often think of the saying you can lead a horse to water. Education is about providing opportunities. The demographics of the county have changed radically over the past few decades. This impacts test score averages. It doesn't mean that there is less opportunity to obtain a first-rate education; however, many students just aren't interested. I don't have the answers but I often wonder if maybe we should meet kids where they are instead of insisting that everyone go to college or take advanced math.

We don't insist that everyone go to college or take advanced math. MCPS has been increasing the number of programs for career preparation in high school, and there are lots of interesting options. Kids should be encouraged to explore these and not feel stigmatized about them.

So much of HS seems geared toward this though and we even rank HS based on college readiness. This seems kind of silly in low-income areas where there is lower college participation. Now don't get me wrong I feel we should help everyone pursue that if that's their goal. I just don't think we should make it the default.

+1. We need to accept that equal outcomes are not possible or practical. And striving for them does not lead to better overall outcomes. We need a return to sanity. We need to lift up those who want to be lifted at all levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suing is a method of last resort to highlight and address unethical and discriminatory practices within a school system. Sometimes it’s necessary to improve the outcome of students.

Agree. Incumbent board members should be voted out in upcoming election. Bringing in fresh ideas and minds will result in better education and bright future for all students.
Aren't you tired of theatrics at board meetings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to give a serious answer to an unserious question - there are school districts that have failed so badly that they require state receivership. I don't know if Baltimore City PS is one of those systems, but MCPS certainly is not.

We're talking about a system that routinely produces National Merit Scholars, C-SPAN documentary winners, and Rogeneron winners.

Moreover, to build a case you need to show not just individual schools with issues, but an entire system. OP might not like the fact that kids get until the end of the quarter to submit assignments but it's not a secret corrupt rule - it's just the grading policy.

As for attendance, if OP's school is bad at taking attendance, that's a problem with OP's school, not the system. My kids' schools are fine.

I completely agree with this assessment. It may not look like it from your vantage point, OP, but MCPS is one of the best large school systems in the nation.
I certainly do not agree with everything they do, indeed I'm quite upset with a few of their directions, notably their discrimination against Asian students in magnet selection. But to be fair and objective, their overall instructional record is a very good one.

(Also, MCPS employs an army of highly-paid lawyers. Good luck going after them, as parents of special needs children have found out to their dismay... one of the things I don't like about MCPS!)

Oh, I know! Asian students only make up 60% of the magnet while making up 15% of the county population. It's so unfair!

It sounds like you would deny a child a magnet seat because of their skin color versus their qualifications?

Asians are more of a minority in Montgomery County and Maryland than Whites, Blacks, or Latino / Hispanics. Ever think that asians work hard to get into these programs because they know this? They're outnumbered in the workforce and won't get the job based on 'who you know' but only on sheer over-qualification? And you would deny a child that opportunity to learn?

Racist b.

If you work for MCPS, you need to be gone.

[Anonymous]

^^ fired. (I don't want to get banned from the server because of a typo..)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Student outcomes should not be dictated by race or social economic status. Yet there are huge disparities when groups are broken out and even compared school by school.

Once again for the folks in the back of the room…

Education requires schools, community culture prioritizing education and parents working together. While it’s a nice thought to imagine schools can make up for the lack of the other two, it’s not possible. Across the board equal outcomes will never be a thing. We can’t hold back the kids who want to learn in favor of the ones who don’t. Is it sad? Yes, terribly. Should we do a great deal to support kids who don’t have the same advantages, of course! Does a gap mean the school should be sued? No, that’s ridiculous.

Completely agree and the sooner we come to grips with this reality the better we can help everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to give a serious answer to an unserious question - there are school districts that have failed so badly that they require state receivership. I don't know if Baltimore City PS is one of those systems, but MCPS certainly is not.

We're talking about a system that routinely produces National Merit Scholars, C-SPAN documentary winners, and Rogeneron winners.

Moreover, to build a case you need to show not just individual schools with issues, but an entire system. OP might not like the fact that kids get until the end of the quarter to submit assignments but it's not a secret corrupt rule - it's just the grading policy.

As for attendance, if OP's school is bad at taking attendance, that's a problem with OP's school, not the system. My kids' schools are fine.

I completely agree with this assessment. It may not look like it from your vantage point, OP, but MCPS is one of the best large school systems in the nation.
I certainly do not agree with everything they do, indeed I'm quite upset with a few of their directions, notably their discrimination against Asian students in magnet selection. But to be fair and objective, their overall instructional record is a very good one.

(Also, MCPS employs an army of highly-paid lawyers. Good luck going after them, as parents of special needs children have found out to their dismay... one of the things I don't like about MCPS!)

Oh, I know! Asian students only make up 60% of the magnet while making up 15% of the county population. It's so unfair!

It sounds like you would deny a child a magnet seat because of their skin color versus their qualifications?

Asians are more of a minority in Montgomery County and Maryland than Whites, Blacks, or Latino / Hispanics. Ever think that asians work hard to get into these programs because they know this? They're outnumbered in the workforce and won't get the job based on 'who you know' but only on sheer over-qualification? And you would deny a child that opportunity to learn?

Racist b.

If you work for MCPS, you need to be gone.

I don't think that's what the poster was saying. it's a matter of how qualifications are determined. For example using local norms is considered a best practice in gifted and talented circles. It also provides a fair means to rank ability across schools with different levels of affluence since use of outside enrichment varies. This is a point of contention but it's reasonable to believe that these programs should serve all students not just those able to afford outside classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone digs a little deeper, the MCPS skeletons will be uncovered. The achievement gap between special populations have plagued MCPS for decades.

Skeletons? Every school system has problems with the achievement gap between "special" populations. You make it sound like this is some hidden deep dark secret when the data is out there for everyone to see. The issue is the only people who care about that are parents of the "special" population. This isn't something MCPS is doing intentionally. No one knows what to do to fix this. If the special ed population is who you are referring to, none of the school systems does a very good job and most try to pretend like the kids don't exist. It's going to get worse because of teacher shortages which mean not only fewer teachers but out of desperation they hire people they never should hire.

If it's minority students you're referring to, programs have been tried and numerous studies have been done. I know good educators who are so frustrated by this themselves not knowing what to do to remedy this.

I often think of the saying you can lead a horse to water. Education is about providing opportunities. The demographics of the county have changed radically over the past few decades. This impacts test score averages. It doesn't mean that there is less opportunity to obtain a first-rate education; however, many students just aren't interested. I don't have the answers but I often wonder if maybe we should meet kids where they are instead of insisting that everyone go to college or take advanced math.

We don't insist that everyone go to college or take advanced math. MCPS has been increasing the number of programs for career preparation in high school, and there are lots of interesting options. Kids should be encouraged to explore these and not feel stigmatized about them.

So much of HS seems geared toward this though and we even rank HS based on college readiness. This seems kind of silly in low-income areas where there is lower college participation. Now don't get me wrong I feel we should help everyone pursue that if that's their goal. I just don't think we should make it the default.

But I think it's changing, in a positive direction. "College and career readiness" is the phrase being used in high schools all the time these days.