Parents from other countries: how is "sleep training" handled overseas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm American, born and raised, and I had no idea what sleep training was until I saw it talked about on DCUM. We have just done what comes naturally to us with DS, which was a combination of co-sleeping, having him sleep in the crib next to us, rocking him to bed, letting him hold our hand in the crib until he fell asleep. Sometimes we let him fall asleep in his crib in his room alone if it obvious that he is just going to want to stay awake and play if we stay in there, but then he cries for 30 seconds just to see if we'll come back and when we don't, goes to sleep. He generally falls asleep quickly and without a problem (knock on wood). "Sleep-training" was just not natural to us.

Sleep training might have become more natural to you if you happened to have a baby that screamed for hours on end or woke up every 45 minutes all night long. My baby doesn't do any of this, so we really never needed to do any hardcore CIO. But I have a good friend with a baby that just would. not. sleep. I think it's important for people to realize that every baby is different and don't judge until you've walked a mile in somebody else's shoes. Or maybe I should say, not slept in your bed for months on end.

I agree with this. We had a baby who woke up every 45 minutes. It was horrible and I was a wreck. I find it really upsetting when people disparage sleep training, call it unnatural, or act as though parents are torturing their child. All of us, including our son, were sleep deprived and in a bad state for several months.

We tried co-sleeping and it didn't work well for us (baby would still wake up).

That said, this is a really interesting question. I do wonder if moms in other countries simply cope with a greater degree of exhaustion. I also wonder how many of them are working full-time jobs when their child is still an infant. Certainly in Europe, most get a generous maternity leave.

I am from rural Jamaica and I think that this is a good point. To my knowledge sleep training does not exisit there and much like the first two posters, most parents co-sleep with babies until they are weaned; most of the mothers do no have full time jobs outside of the home and almost everyone has lots of extended family to help, so ever if mommy has to get up to go to work, there is always an aunt or a grandma to help out at night.

My two children were born here, I did not co-sleep nor did I sleep train the primary reason was becasue I just did not have to - I had a very long maternity leave (9 mths) and baby was pretty much sleeping thru the night before I had to go back to work. I am sure if I have to go back to work after 12 weeks and was having difficulty getting the baby to sleep I would try sleep training.

[Anonymous]

DH is from Ghana, where babies co-sleep. My MIL stayed with us during our maternity leave so we were able to talk about this quite a bit. She told me I should never allow DC to sleep alone lest he be vulnerable to "spirits." She also wanted him to be held, cuddled or played with all day as well, because "we believe a baby should be with its mother." I think she found it odd that I wanted to leave DC with her to occasionally go running by myself. Being "tied" to one's baby isn't seen as burdensome there as we see it here, and there is no concern over developing a baby's independence.

Interestingly, she also saw waking up every hour to comfort a sleeping baby as normal and didn't see why I was so distressed about it. She told me over and over that that's what she did with all of her kids... giving me a look that said *of course* you're not going to sleep, you're a mom! She also said her mom would help her when her babies were crying, and she often woke up to help me when DC was really inconsolable. So I think the expectation among mothers there is (a) your sleep will definitely be interrupted and (b) it will be a team effort and you'll be supported by other women.

Despite being from a co-sleeping country DH is soooooo looking forward to the day DC leaves our bed, though!

Another perspective - my SIL is Chinese-American and slept in her grandmother's bed (grandma lived with the family) until age 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

A good friend of mine took this exact same approach. When her daughter was about 9 months old, she discussed her daughter's sleep issues with a pediatrician. She said to the doc...my daughter will figure it out eventually. And the pediatrician said...actually she really won't unless you do something. She's now five and is a horrible sleeper. Up at all hours, insists that her mother sleep in bed with her, etc., etc.

I know a situation like that too. So if other countries don't have sleep training or even agree with independent sleeping, how do their kids learn to sleep well? I'm sure there aren't whole countries of bad sleepers...

My nephew who is British was not sleep trained as his mom was advised to do by the OB and ped. He is now 6 and is a horrible sleeper, and to this day will only fall asleep if his mom lays next to him until he is fast asleep which can be up to 45 minutes. He will also call for her throughout the night, and wakes up very early. When he sleeps at grandma he will only fall asleep with the TV on and needs someone to sleep in the room with him.

I sleep trained my 20 month DD at 8 months and am SO happy I did it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

A good friend of mine took this exact same approach. When her daughter was about 9 months old, she discussed her daughter's sleep issues with a pediatrician. She said to the doc...my daughter will figure it out eventually. And the pediatrician said...actually she really won't unless you do something. She's now five and is a horrible sleeper. Up at all hours, insists that her mother sleep in bed with her, etc., etc.

I know a situation like that too. So if other countries don't have sleep training or even agree with independent sleeping, how do their kids learn to sleep well? I'm sure there aren't whole countries of bad sleepers...

PP who posted abouit Ghana. I think a 4 or 5 year old there would still be sleeping w/ parents or sharing a bed with siblings.

(BTW, lest I start overgeneralizing, just want to note that we also have Ghanaian friends here who American-style sleep trained their kids at 3 months old)

[Anonymous]

I am from Latin America and sleep training was a new concept for me as well. I did what my mother did: first 3 months I will hold her everytime she cried and soothe her, offered her the breast or a pacifier if she did not want to eat. After 3-4 months, if the baby cried I went to check if she was fine (so there's nothing bothering her, room to cold/hot, fever, etc), pat her on her back, offer a pacifier, stay next to her on the crib and if nothing works, I hold her, rock her, sing a song. Once she calms down, I go back to my room. If she cries again I don't respond for the first 5 minutes, she is fine and needs to understand that is time to sleep. If she continues crying more than 5 mins I go back, but I don't hold her, just rub her back and say it's ok, it's ok and go back to my room. The third time she cried for less than 5 mins, so I did not go to her room. The following day she cried less than 5 mins, so I did not go and the following day she did not cry again (except when she is sick or have a nightmare and on those occassions I always go to see her). It worked for both my babies, not sure if it was a coincidence or as my friends say I'm just lucky or it is in my genes. They are both great sleepers (12-13 hours straigth since they were 4-6 months).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

A good friend of mine took this exact same approach. When her daughter was about 9 months old, she discussed her daughter's sleep issues with a pediatrician. She said to the doc...my daughter will figure it out eventually. And the pediatrician said...actually she really won't unless you do something. She's now five and is a horrible sleeper. Up at all hours, insists that her mother sleep in bed with her, etc., etc.

I know a situation like that too. So if other countries don't have sleep training or even agree with independent sleeping, how do their kids learn to sleep well? I'm sure there aren't whole countries of bad sleepers...

PP who posted abouit Ghana. I think a 4 or 5 year old there would still be sleeping w/ parents or sharing a bed with siblings.

(BTW, lest I start overgeneralizing, just want to note that we also have Ghanaian friends here who American-style sleep trained their kids at 3 months old)

This happens in my country as well and I think it fine. Its all a matter of what each family is comfortable with and sometimes economic factors make is necessary. Heck, I am 40 and when my daughter (4) and I go to visit my mom we often start the night out with all three of us in the same bed, same thing happens when we go to visit relatives back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

A good friend of mine took this exact same approach. When her daughter was about 9 months old, she discussed her daughter's sleep issues with a pediatrician. She said to the doc...my daughter will figure it out eventually. And the pediatrician said...actually she really won't unless you do something. She's now five and is a horrible sleeper. Up at all hours, insists that her mother sleep in bed with her, etc., etc.

I know a situation like that too. So if other countries don't have sleep training or even agree with independent sleeping, how do their kids learn to sleep well? I'm sure there aren't whole countries of bad sleepers...

PP who posted abouit Ghana. I think a 4 or 5 year old there would still be sleeping w/ parents or sharing a bed with siblings.
(BTW, lest I start overgeneralizing, just want to note that we also have Ghanaian friends here who American-style sleep trained their kids at 3 months old)

Jamaica poster here, i did not sleep alone in a bed until I was almost 17 (when I moved to the US). Before then it was with grandma or cousins. Slept alone (more or less) from that time until I got married at 34 - have suffered no long-term effects. Usually fall asleep the instant I hit the pillow, up until I had my first child could sleep thru a hurricane. There is nothing inherently wrong with co-sleeping or sleep training, its just a matter of what works for each family.

[Anonymous]

This is such an interesting discussion. Hubby is from Ecuador and I should ask him about "sleep training." Although he wants to start feeding baby frijoles already. Oy. She just turned 4 months today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm American, born and raised, and I had no idea what sleep training was until I saw it talked about on DCUM. We have just done what comes naturally to us with DS, which was a combination of co-sleeping, having him sleep in the crib next to us, rocking him to bed, letting him hold our hand in the crib until he fell asleep. Sometimes we let him fall asleep in his crib in his room alone if it obvious that he is just going to want to stay awake and play if we stay in there, but then he cries for 30 seconds just to see if we'll come back and when we don't, goes to sleep. He generally falls asleep quickly and without a problem (knock on wood). "Sleep-training" was just not natural to us.

Sleep training might have become more natural to you if you happened to have a baby that screamed for hours on end or woke up every 45 minutes all night long. My baby doesn't do any of this, so we really never needed to do any hardcore CIO. But I have a good friend with a baby that just would. not. sleep. I think it's important for people to realize that every baby is different and don't judge until you've walked a mile in somebody else's shoes. Or maybe I should say, not slept in your bed for months on end.

Yes, this was us as well. I resisted the notion of sleep training until I fell asleep while driving one day, with the baby in the backseat. Although I didn't have an accident, I certainly could have, and I realized at that moment that I *had* to do something to get some sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I'm originally from Russia. We don't do sleep training like CIO. However, I did it with my children here. I had a four month maternity leave and I simply couldn't be up all night and then do the job I have to during the day. My friends back home take 18 months-2 years paid maternity leave and everything is about the baby. If they are up at night, they sleep during the day when the baby is sleeping. Additionally, almost everyone I know back home has family either living with them or very close by. This means really usually at least 2 if not more adults at home to take care of the baby and mom actually gets a lot of rest. If I'd stayed home and married a Russian, I would have been living in the same apartment as my parents AND grandparents who would have seen it as their mission in life to help raise the baby. Housing is a problem and realize that still, most people live in cities live one or more families to an apartment. It's normal for adult, MARRIED children to live with parents and raise families with multiple generations in a small space. It's changing a little but it's still common.

Also, once you go back to work, if your baby is sick at all, they basically get an automatic week off of work to stay home! No joke. So it's really apples and oranges. Since I now have adopted life in a country where we all need to function at a high level, I had no problem doing sleep training. It worked so well and it was so easy, actually. There aren't other developed countries we can compare the US to--no one really has less family friendly policies than we do. I immigrated in the 90s and I was always confused when I heard US politicians talk about "family values." Some women can't even take more than a few weeks' leave. It's almost barbarian.

I totally agree with this. The lack of support for new parents just boggles my mind sometimes. I was lucky enough to be able to take six months off and we have family close by. I just think it's unconscionable that some women are faced with leaving tiny 4 or 6 week old babies in order to go to work. It's unnatural.

[Anonymous]

PP here. Mean to add that we co-slept for 9 months, then did cry it out. He's a great sleeper now. No regrets.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to chip in with my 2 cents that sleep training not only helps overnight, but it also helps greatly when it comes to naps during the day. Self soothing is just something you want your child to learn for his/her own benefit as well, not just your own.

[Anonymous]

south asian here: generally letting an infant cry it out is considered cruel in our country, but i admit, there is a LOT more help back home than here - all women in the middle or upper classes have a baby nurse (and maid and cook; my cousin has a nanny, 2 maids, a cook, a gardener, and a driver) and many live in extended families, so granny or an aunt is available to help out with the baby. I think poorer people still co-sleep, but in upper class families, infant are more often (but not always) put into bassinettes either right next to the mother or in the next room with an overnight baby nurse (to ferry the child back and forth to the mother if she wishes to breastfeed). Again, sometimes a family member fills in this role - often, a young niece or cousin comes in to help with the baby-care - my mother helped care for her cousin's newborn when she was 15. I think most children are "gently" sleep trained and yes, it may take them longer to be fully able to spend the whole night in their beds, but it does happen eventually!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:south asian here: generally letting an infant cry it out is considered cruel in our country, but i admit, there is a LOT more help back home than here - all women in the middle or upper classes have a baby nurse (and maid and cook; my cousin has a nanny, 2 maids, a cook, a gardener, and a driver) and many live in extended families, so granny or an aunt is available to help out with the baby. I think poorer people still co-sleep, but in upper class families, infant are more often (but not always) put into bassinettes either right next to the mother or in the next room with an overnight baby nurse (to ferry the child back and forth to the mother if she wishes to breastfeed). Again, sometimes a family member fills in this role - often, a young niece or cousin comes in to help with the baby-care - my mother helped care for her cousin's newborn when she was 15. I think most children are "gently" sleep trained and yes, it may take them longer to be fully able to spend the whole night in their beds, but it does happen eventually!

If I had a baby nurse and a cook and a couple maids to spare, I'd NEVER allow my baby nurse to let my baby cry. Because it would disturb me while I laid around all day watching TV, reading trashy magazines, napping, and eating the fabulous meals my cook prepared for me. When can I move to this country?

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who didn't have the stamina to fully sleep-train my son and noted that you don't hear about 4-5 year olds who wake up every 45 minutes. (By the way, my son is only 9 months old now, so there's still time if i change my mind). I still maintain that it's not "natural" to sleep-train, but that doesn't mean I'm categorically opposed to it, especially if it means the baby is happier and well-rested throughout the day.

FWIW, I wasn't sleep-trained, and I'm a horrible sleeper. My parents came here as adults from Eastern Europe, where there was no such thing...perhaps i never learned to "self-soothe," and that is the cause of my intermittnet insomnia and frequent waking. But surely not all of your parents sleep-trained you (and certainly not the PPs from other countries); isn't sleep-training a somewhat modern (and American and also possibly British) thing? I could be wrong.