Parents from other countries: how is "sleep training" handled overseas?

[Anonymous]

I'm curious, since I've seen at least one person post on here that they'd never heard of "sleep training" until they came to the US, what the practices are in other countries. Are babies mostly co-sleeping with parents, or are there other methods of getting them to sleep in cribs, or is it just "sleep training" by another name? Please share, and also tell us how well it works and how long it takes.

[Anonymous]

In my east Asian country, "sleep training"--which often entails ignoring your baby's cries even though it hurts the mother emotionally--is considered cruel and aberrant. When a mother ignores her baby's distress, many would consider the mother psychologically disturbed. You are supposed to respond to your baby when s/he cries and hold the baby. Once the baby can talk and express what is wrong, then mother responds to what is spoken.

We co-sleep on futon-like beds (firm) on the ground with flat pillows, and the baby sleeps next to the mom. Hardly anyone is obese (though that is changing) and drug use is practically non-existent among women--so the chances of suffocating your baby while you sleep are practically non-existent. (There is abuse of alcohol, though, mainly by men.)

When the child is older (usually around 2-3), the child moves to her own futon and sleeps near her parents.

[Anonymous]

I'm from South Africa and there is no such thing. Babies are held in slings on the back all day long. Babies then sleep in the bed with mom. Letting your baby cry for a long period of time without offering comfort would not be acceptable for the mother to do. Not to mention it would wake the entire family up, as we live in much smaller homes.

[Anonymous]

I'm American, born and raised, and I had no idea what sleep training was until I saw it talked about on DCUM. We have just done what comes naturally to us with DS, which was a combination of co-sleeping, having him sleep in the crib next to us, rocking him to bed, letting him hold our hand in the crib until he fell asleep. Sometimes we let him fall asleep in his crib in his room alone if it obvious that he is just going to want to stay awake and play if we stay in there, but then he cries for 30 seconds just to see if we'll come back and when we don't, goes to sleep. He generally falls asleep quickly and without a problem (knock on wood). "Sleep-training" was just not natural to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm American, born and raised, and I had no idea what sleep training was until I saw it talked about on DCUM. We have just done what comes naturally to us with DS, which was a combination of co-sleeping, having him sleep in the crib next to us, rocking him to bed, letting him hold our hand in the crib until he fell asleep. Sometimes we let him fall asleep in his crib in his room alone if it obvious that he is just going to want to stay awake and play if we stay in there, but then he cries for 30 seconds just to see if we'll come back and when we don't, goes to sleep. He generally falls asleep quickly and without a problem (knock on wood). "Sleep-training" was just not natural to us.

Sleep training might have become more natural to you if you happened to have a baby that screamed for hours on end or woke up every 45 minutes all night long. My baby doesn't do any of this, so we really never needed to do any hardcore CIO. But I have a good friend with a baby that just would. not. sleep. I think it's important for people to realize that every baby is different and don't judge until you've walked a mile in somebody else's shoes. Or maybe I should say, not slept in your bed for months on end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm American, born and raised, and I had no idea what sleep training was until I saw it talked about on DCUM. We have just done what comes naturally to us with DS, which was a combination of co-sleeping, having him sleep in the crib next to us, rocking him to bed, letting him hold our hand in the crib until he fell asleep. Sometimes we let him fall asleep in his crib in his room alone if it obvious that he is just going to want to stay awake and play if we stay in there, but then he cries for 30 seconds just to see if we'll come back and when we don't, goes to sleep. He generally falls asleep quickly and without a problem (knock on wood). "Sleep-training" was just not natural to us.

Sleep training might have become more natural to you if you happened to have a baby that screamed for hours on end or woke up every 45 minutes all night long. My baby doesn't do any of this, so we really never needed to do any hardcore CIO. But I have a good friend with a baby that just would. not. sleep. I think it's important for people to realize that every baby is different and don't judge until you've walked a mile in somebody else's shoes. Or maybe I should say, not slept in your bed for months on end.

I agree with this. We had a baby who woke up every 45 minutes. It was horrible and I was a wreck. I find it really upsetting when people disparage sleep training, call it unnatural, or act as though parents are torturing their child. All of us, including our son, were sleep deprived and in a bad state for several months.

We tried co-sleeping and it didn't work well for us (baby would still wake up).

That said, this is a really interesting question. I do wonder if moms in other countries simply cope with a greater degree of exhaustion. I also wonder how many of them are working full-time jobs when their child is still an infant. Certainly in Europe, most get a generous maternity leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm American, born and raised, and I had no idea what sleep training was until I saw it talked about on DCUM. We have just done what comes naturally to us with DS, which was a combination of co-sleeping, having him sleep in the crib next to us, rocking him to bed, letting him hold our hand in the crib until he fell asleep. Sometimes we let him fall asleep in his crib in his room alone if it obvious that he is just going to want to stay awake and play if we stay in there, but then he cries for 30 seconds just to see if we'll come back and when we don't, goes to sleep. He generally falls asleep quickly and without a problem (knock on wood). "Sleep-training" was just not natural to us.

Sleep training might have become more natural to you if you happened to have a baby that screamed for hours on end or woke up every 45 minutes all night long. My baby doesn't do any of this, so we really never needed to do any hardcore CIO. But I have a good friend with a baby that just would. not. sleep. I think it's important for people to realize that every baby is different and don't judge until you've walked a mile in somebody else's shoes. Or maybe I should say, not slept in your bed for months on end.

I agree with this. We had a baby who woke up every 45 minutes. It was horrible and I was a wreck. I find it really upsetting when people disparage sleep training, call it unnatural, or act as though parents are torturing their child. All of us, including our son, were sleep deprived and in a bad state for several months.

We tried co-sleeping and it didn't work well for us (baby would still wake up).

That said, this is a really interesting question. I do wonder if moms in other countries simply cope with a greater degree of exhaustion. I also wonder how many of them are working full-time jobs when their child is still an infant. Certainly in Europe, most get a generous maternity leave.

This was my experience as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That said, this is a really interesting question. I do wonder if moms in other countries simply cope with a greater degree of exhaustion. I also wonder how many of them are working full-time jobs when their child is still an infant. Certainly in Europe, most get a generous maternity leave.

This is an excellent point. I'm the East Asian mom, and once a woman marries, she does not work. So even if baby is a poor sleeper, the mom can rest during the day. Also, most families (this is changing) live close to their parents, so the grandma comes by and does a lot of cooking and cleaning, so the mom has help.

There is something very wrong in the US with regard to the care of new moms and their babies. The government encourages young people to move to big cities to work, but then they are far away from families. The government also does not help new families, so I think that the government either has to provide an incentive for families to live near each other, or they need to give new moms and babies more help.

[Anonymous]

Hi, 11:30PP here. I was not disparaging or judging anyone. I was very clear that I was talking about what came naturally to us, I don't understand why my recounting my personal experience should be interpreted as a judgment about anyone else's. I was simply responding to the OP whose thread was written as "sleep training" is the American way, period. I just don't think that is the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi, 11:30PP here. I was not disparaging or judging anyone. I was very clear that I was talking about what came naturally to us, I don't understand why my recounting my personal experience should be interpreted as a judgment about anyone else's. I was simply responding to the OP whose thread was written as "sleep training" is the American way, period. I just don't think that is the case.

Fair enough. I would just be aware that using the word "natural" is going to come across to some people the wrong way. It seems to imply that doing sleep training is not natural. Obviously everyone is a bit senstive on this topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, 11:30PP here. I was not disparaging or judging anyone. I was very clear that I was talking about what came naturally to us, I don't understand why my recounting my personal experience should be interpreted as a judgment about anyone else's. I was simply responding to the OP whose thread was written as "sleep training" is the American way, period. I just don't think that is the case.

Fair enough. I would just be aware that using the word "natural" is going to come across to some people the wrong way. It seems to imply that doing sleep training is not natural. Obviously everyone is a bit senstive on this topic.

Interesting--I actually think that sleep training is NOT natural, because if it were, it wouldn't be so damned hard to hear your baby crying. Most mothers naturally want to soothe our babies, comfort them, even if it means leaving us completely drained. When I first heard of sleep training, it seemed to go against my instincts, as does the notion of forcing a child to "self-soothe." But having said that, I have a niece who was very successfully sleep trained (one night of ferberizing, actually very early on, made her a champion sleeper). And I know plenty of other kids who are great sleepers now, all because of the training.

Now, I admit actually having tried sleep training--I just have a very demanding baby that did not tire himself out crying, but just got more agitated, even with my coming in to soothe him by patting him, etc. He got PISSED and just kept getting louder. I didn't last long--the longest I was able to let him go was 10 minutes, and the training never worked. So I am completely exhausted and have decided that getting up in the middle of the night, nursing or soothing him, and going back to bed, is just easier, so I will suck it up. Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I'm originally from Russia. We don't do sleep training like CIO. However, I did it with my children here. I had a four month maternity leave and I simply couldn't be up all night and then do the job I have to during the day. My friends back home take 18 months-2 years paid maternity leave and everything is about the baby. If they are up at night, they sleep during the day when the baby is sleeping. Additionally, almost everyone I know back home has family either living with them or very close by. This means really usually at least 2 if not more adults at home to take care of the baby and mom actually gets a lot of rest. If I'd stayed home and married a Russian, I would have been living in the same apartment as my parents AND grandparents who would have seen it as their mission in life to help raise the baby. Housing is a problem and realize that still, most people live in cities live one or more families to an apartment. It's normal for adult, MARRIED children to live with parents and raise families with multiple generations in a small space. It's changing a little but it's still common.

Also, once you go back to work, if your baby is sick at all, they basically get an automatic week off of work to stay home! No joke. So it's really apples and oranges. Since I now have adopted life in a country where we all need to function at a high level, I had no problem doing sleep training. It worked so well and it was so easy, actually. There aren't other developed countries we can compare the US to--no one really has less family friendly policies than we do. I immigrated in the 90s and I was always confused when I heard US politicians talk about "family values." Some women can't even take more than a few weeks' leave. It's almost barbarian.

[Anonymous]

I think the English sleep train, have baby nurses, and have the right idea about boarding school starting in the elementary years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, 11:30PP here. I was not disparaging or judging anyone. I was very clear that I was talking about what came naturally to us, I don't understand why my recounting my personal experience should be interpreted as a judgment about anyone else's. I was simply responding to the OP whose thread was written as "sleep training" is the American way, period. I just don't think that is the case.

Fair enough. I would just be aware that using the word "natural" is going to come across to some people the wrong way. It seems to imply that doing sleep training is not natural. Obviously everyone is a bit senstive on this topic.

Interesting--I actually think that sleep training is NOT natural, because if it were, it wouldn't be so damned hard to hear your baby crying. Most mothers naturally want to soothe our babies, comfort them, even if it means leaving us completely drained. When I first heard of sleep training, it seemed to go against my instincts, as does the notion of forcing a child to "self-soothe." But having said that, I have a niece who was very successfully sleep trained (one night of ferberizing, actually very early on, made her a champion sleeper). And I know plenty of other kids who are great sleepers now, all because of the training.

Now, I admit actually having tried sleep training--I just have a very demanding baby that did not tire himself out crying, but just got more agitated, even with my coming in to soothe him by patting him, etc. He got PISSED and just kept getting louder. I didn't last long--the longest I was able to let him go was 10 minutes, and the training never worked. So I am completely exhausted and have decided that getting up in the middle of the night, nursing or soothing him, and going back to bed, is just easier, so I will suck it up. Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

A good friend of mine took this exact same approach. When her daughter was about 9 months old, she discussed her daughter's sleep issues with a pediatrician. She said to the doc...my daughter will figure it out eventually. And the pediatrician said...actually she really won't unless you do something. She's now five and is a horrible sleeper. Up at all hours, insists that her mother sleep in bed with her, etc., etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Most babies eventually sleep through the night, and so will he (right? you never hear of 4 year olds waking up every 45 minutes).

A good friend of mine took this exact same approach. When her daughter was about 9 months old, she discussed her daughter's sleep issues with a pediatrician. She said to the doc...my daughter will figure it out eventually. And the pediatrician said...actually she really won't unless you do something. She's now five and is a horrible sleeper. Up at all hours, insists that her mother sleep in bed with her, etc., etc.

I know a situation like that too. So if other countries don't have sleep training or even agree with independent sleeping, how do their kids learn to sleep well? I'm sure there aren't whole countries of bad sleepers...