This dynamic is so frustrating!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good Lord it's been years. Get help

Agreed, it's been years this person has had to apologize. They should indeed get help in being accountable for their actions. Good point.

[Anonymous]

So, what’s the current dilemma? Thanksgiving dinner with the family? You need to decide what functions you can attend and easily avoid the A-hole. A wedding with 150 people is pretty easy, but dinner with 6 people total would be challenging. This is a judgement call on your part. The problem is that you will miss out on some get togethers because the A-hole probably shows up to everything. Think about how you can gray rock “lite” this person at a social situation. For me, it would never to be 1 on 1 with them. I also have a thing about not using people’s names when I truly dislike them. Treat them like a stranger on on a bus. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Several years ago this loved one did something really hurtful to me (made fun of me about a subject I was quite sensitive about at the time, in front of others, in a way that was really unnecessary and cruel). I explained that it was hurtful and why. They did not apologize but said we should move forward. I said I needed an apology to move forward because I felt trust had been broken. They said they had “just been making a joke” and refused to apologize. So I didn’t forgive them.

It has now been years and we are estranged. It is awkward for others and has led to other schisms. But now their lives is that I’m “too sensitive” and demand apologies for “everything”. But I’ve never asked for an apology for anything other than this one thing, and I feel like I have a right! I just honestly needed an apology to feel like this was a person I’d feel comfortable being around again. I don’t normally demand apologies from people, in fact I can’t think of any other situation where I have gone do — this just felt like a bridge too far because it was public and embarrassing for me.

But now of course the attitude is that we are both at fault and are both being stubborn, and we should both “let it go”. But I’m really the only one who would be letting anything go— the only thing I “did” to this person is ask for sn apology and refuse to forget about what they did. That doesn’t really feel like an act of malice to me.

At this point I’m probably more angry with them for refusing to apologize than the original offense, just because it’s gone on so long and feels like some game they are playing to win the conflict, whereas the original thing was more them being dumb and hurtful in the moment.

I know to keep peace I should probably just say “ok, let’s forget about it.” But I know if I do that, I won’t forget. Everyone else will be happy to move on, but I’ll always remember we that this person did this gross thing, refused to apologize or make amends in any way, and then somehow I became the bad guy for being hurt by this. I feel like this has poisoned my reputation in this group of people and other than magically not caring when publicly insulted and laughed at, I’m not sure what I could have done to prevent it.

Just needed to vent.

You don't have to forgive, adn you don't have to forget. What, exactly, is the impact this is having on other people? You are avoiding family holidays? If it a big group, you go and say hello and keep moving. You can be cordial enough to not make everyone else uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean you don't still hate the person. Ignore them. The only person you are hurting by holding onto this anger is you. They could not care less.

[Anonymous]

I'm with you, OP!

[Anonymous]

1) OP was the victim here
2) OP likes being a victim and the leverage that, she thinks, comes with it
3) Move on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) OP was the victim here
2) OP likes being a victim and the leverage that, she thinks, comes with it
3) Move on

I disagree on #2 because OP is saying she hates the dynamic and would like it to go away, plus she clearly has no leverage since the one thing she has asked for (an apology) has not happened despite several years passing. I think it's more like OP is stuck in the situation and is not being forced to choose between letting go of something that, honestly, the other person could have resolved a long time ago with a lot less fanfare, or hold her ground and piss everyone off. That sucks and it doesn't sound like a position OP is relishing.

Having been in a similar situation, I found that the other person really dug in and got very nasty the longer it went on. Not merely calling me sensitive but also saying much worse things about me and starting untrue rumors about me to discredit me so that people were less inclined to blame them for refusing to apologize. I didn't enjoy anything about the situation but also felt that at that point I really could not forgive because I'm not a doormat and they'd really taken it quite far. I tried to gray rock but it wasn't enough and this wasn't a relative so I just went the exorcism route -- cut off all contact with that person and also cut out all people who put me in contact with that person. It was drastic but it was honestly the only way to fully remove that toxicity from my life.

I'm sure some of those folks are still talking about what a "drama queen" I am and I am fine with that, as long as they do so far away from me. With some people you can't win for losing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) OP was the victim here
2) OP likes being a victim and the leverage that, she thinks, comes with it
3) Move on

I disagree on #2 because OP is saying she hates the dynamic and would like it to go away, plus she clearly has no leverage since the one thing she has asked for (an apology) has not happened despite several years passing. I think it's more like OP is stuck in the situation and is not being forced to choose between letting go of something that, honestly, the other person could have resolved a long time ago with a lot less fanfare, or hold her ground and piss everyone off. That sucks and it doesn't sound like a position OP is relishing.

Having been in a similar situation, I found that the other person really dug in and got very nasty the longer it went on. Not merely calling me sensitive but also saying much worse things about me and starting untrue rumors about me to discredit me so that people were less inclined to blame them for refusing to apologize. I didn't enjoy anything about the situation but also felt that at that point I really could not forgive because I'm not a doormat and they'd really taken it quite far. I tried to gray rock but it wasn't enough and this wasn't a relative so I just went the exorcism route -- cut off all contact with that person and also cut out all people who put me in contact with that person. It was drastic but it was honestly the only way to fully remove that toxicity from my life.

I'm sure some of those folks are still talking about what a "drama queen" I am and I am fine with that, as long as they do so far away from me. With some people you can't win for losing.

PP here and your comments are fair enough. However, OP hasn’t provided any real details and we really don’t know enough to say yay or nay on who’s at fault.
I think point 3 still applies: Move on.

[Anonymous]

You've posted before. I see you took no advice and continue to enjoy victimhood

[Anonymous]

“How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.” — Wayne Dyer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good Lord it's been years. Get help

Agreed, it's been years this person has had to apologize. They should indeed get help in being accountable for their actions. Good point.

No. Someone said something mean to OP years ago and she can't let it go and move on. She needs help

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good Lord it's been years. Get help

Agreed, it's been years this person has had to apologize. They should indeed get help in being accountable for their actions. Good point.

No. Someone said something mean to OP years ago and she can't let it go and move on. She needs help

I hate these comments. People often come here for help. Getting over toxic relationships (which is what this is, it's obviously more about the refusal to apologize than than whatever was said years ago) is hard and people seek out support in different ways, including posting to forums like this.

Like if someone slips on the sidewalk do you walk over to where they are sitting on the ground and say "Get help"? I mean wth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've posted before. I see you took no advice and continue to enjoy victimhood

Have you considered that more than one person has this problem? Perhaps by observing the responses in this threat where multiple posters relate similar experiences. Sounds like the only one playing victim here is you, and you could solve it by simply not reading or responding to the thread. But I bet you won't take my advice either. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

This really depends on the group. If this is a friend group or your immediate family the answers are not necessarily the same. Because the real issue is that there is a pretense that the relationship is in limbo. If Susie just apologized for calling me a see you next tuesday at college graduation we could all just MOVE ON.

But this is a false pretense. Your relationship with this person is over. You will never regain the level of friendship you had, you will never really trust them again, and as a result, the group will never be harmonious in it's totality again. You cannot undo years worth of accumulated bitterness in a relationship when you aren't like, going to therapy with them and committing yourselves to healing, which is not something anyone would do with a friend.

This isn't your fault OP, but it is true. And the drama and strife comes from everyone pretending it is not true. You need to accept that the relationship as a friendship is over. You are no longer friends. But you can choose to be civil acquaintances, where you are civil and friendly when you see one another but there is no depth to the relationship. And this is how you remove the burden of your argument from others. Something is happening where things are 'unsettled' so you need to fix it. Nothing is unsettled, you and Susie just aren't close! So you don't go to thinks that are primarily Susie events, you don't invite Susie to things that are primarily you events, and you treat Susie like a distant acquaintance at the things you are both attending.

Don't talk about it or obsess about it anymore. You don't have to forgive him/her, I would not either. You just need to either decide to excise them from your life completely, or to figure out how to coexist in a distant but nondisruptive manner.

What you shouldn't do is make friends pick sides, agonize over it ad nauseum, or make a big deal about it if you are in her presence. You just do you. I had two friends that got caught up in a similar dynamic to what you describe. In that case it was one friend not taking the other's side in another relationship schism, and there were never any really CLEAR expectations set. But it was the same, a decade of them just growing to dislike each other more and more because this 'wrong' hung over their heads and the entire friend group. In the end, the entire group fell apart because the wronged girl could not be around the other one without it turning into a THING. And like, that is fine, but that wronged girl thinks that she is the victim. And in the end, her not letting go of that personal beef, or not figuring out how to not let it bleed into the group, ended like 5/6 other friendships. She never had an obligation to forgive my other friend, but she let her hate and anger take down a lot of collateral damage. Because really, at some point, there was nothing the other person could do to 'make it right'.

If this was a family member, I would basically have the same advice except walking away entirely and cutting them out is more difficult. Sometimes, depending on the relative and the other personalities involved, it is worth it to make pretend amends, but that is very situation specific.

[Anonymous]

I would say start moving certain of those people out of your life. If theyre going to not stand up for you and play the "both sides are at fault" game, then limit your time with them. You know the level of respect you deserve in a relationship, and this aint it. Focus on bringing in new, GOOD people who will truly care about you. And enjoy your new future!

[Anonymous]

OP, we literally cannot control other people. This person is not going to apologize and no one in the bigger group is going to make them or change their own behavior toward them. These are facts.

What helped me was choosing not to give them any more time or energy or space in my head. That is what people mean by let it go. You have magnified what happened over years and it will continue until you choose to change your thinking pattern and energy around it.

When people behave badly towards me I try to practice gratitude that they have shown me their true colors. Then I keep them at a distance and am minimally civil if they need to be in my life or I cut them off.

I do not know your spiritual practice but I literally thank God for the people he has removed from my life. It created space for others, some of whom (not all!) were kinder and more worth my time and emotional investment.

You are choosing to make this person and their behavior one of the most important features of your life, for a decade now. You can make a different choice. Have a plan, when your thoughts go to him/her, think of something else, say 5 things you are grateful for. Literally train yourself to give him/her no thought.