That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:re the photograph: the only evidence presented by the DA was that a message was found in brock's phone the night of the incident stating "who's tits are those?" it was a group message using the app groupme, so could have been a response to anyone participating in the group message. no photograph of tits was found on brock's phone or anyone else's phone.
the man observed standing over the victim using cell phone light could not have been brock. brock went from being with the victim, to being tackled by the swedes, to being in police custody. it could have been one of the swedes as someone suggested, or another passerby.
i encourage all you who would crucify brock to peruse the court documents, not just headlines and few statements published by the DA. santa clara county released 400+ pages of court documents last night: http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2016/06/10/county-releases-brock-turner-court-documents. palo alto online + stanford daily had reporters in the courtroom throughout the trial and are another legitimate source info. the DA's office was on a crusade to make an example out of brock and draw media attention to the case no matter what. the DA even shirked their ethical duties by bringing rape charges at first when they knew the evidence wasn't there to support, just to chum the waters so to speak.

Poor, poor Brock. Life is so unfair

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the whole "rape culture" thing. If there's truly a rape culture on campus, then why aren't women taking precaution?

I have a different theory.

1 in 6 college women are sexually assaulted before they graduate. Denial is part of the problem. We don't warn women. We don't prosecute rapists. We shame women for coming forward.

+1 exactly. You don't "get it" because this never happened to you. You are lucky you don't "get it"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the whole "rape culture" thing. If there's truly a rape culture on campus, then why aren't women taking precaution?

I have a different theory.

1 in 6 college women are sexually assaulted before they graduate. Denial is part of the problem. We don't warn women. We don't prosecute rapists. We shame women for coming forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the whole "rape culture" thing. If there's truly a rape culture on campus, then why aren't women taking precaution?

I have a different theory.

1 in 6 college women are sexually assaulted before they graduate. Denial is part of the problem. We don't warn women. We don't prosecute rapists. We shame women for coming forward.

You're rolling your eyes at this???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ ...and blaming the drunk person only seems to happen in cases of sexual assault.

?

What? Not true.

First, it's not victim blaming to point out how reckless it is to black out anywhere. It's a teachable moment IMHO.

If a drunk passes out and gets robbed, people would have the same reaction: sucks that you were robbed---robbery is a crime---you might not have been robbed had you not been passed out/walking down the dark alley/walking across the campus alone at 2am. Rape, robbery, falling in a ditch, whatever. A person's actions usually play a role. Pointing that out isn't victim blaming though. It's just a fact.

Yes, you are victim blaming.

If I'm sh*t faced drunk at a bar and I tell a guy that he can have access to the money in my purse. I smile and open my purse and show him the money. And he happily takes my money and buys himself dinner, appetizers and drinks. I wake up in the morning to find my money all gone. I'm not sure what happened to my money. Since I don't remember what happened to my money that means that it must have been stolen. Right?

Wow.

Yes WOW. I use that analogy because I think that it demonstrates a gray area that is usually present in date rape scenarios. Rarely does date rape involve a 100% non-responsive unaware person. Drinking your self black out drunk is serious. You do things and agree to things that you may not otherwise agree to. You may pass out in the process. You can not assume that other people are going to look out for you and act in your best interests. That goes for men and women. You need to look out for you.

Thanks for helping me completely lose faith in humanity. So men should "look out for themselves" and "take" women who are not physically strong enough or are too intoxicated to fight them off? You're a disgusting pig. In fact, date rape is most often black and white. She wants to stop and he doesn't, and she "looks out for himself" and overpowers her (often). Or HE KNOWS she is to out of it to make him stop or say yes or no, and "looks out for himself" and takes what he wants.

And if Brock Turner ends up with a cell mate ("acquaintance") who "looks out for himself"? I guess that's not a shade of grey, because women want to be sexually assaulted or have it coming and men don't. I mean-- Brock should know when he goes to jail that he could be raped, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get the whole "rape culture" thing. If there's truly a rape culture on campus, then why aren't women taking precaution?

I have a different theory.

1 in 6 college women are sexually assaulted before they graduate. Denial is part of the problem. We don't warn women. We don't prosecute rapists. We shame women for coming forward.

You're rolling your eyes at this???

I've seen statistics from 1 in 4 college women are sexually assaulted to 6.1 out of 1000 students met the definition of rape or sodomy. That's lower than the general average of 7.6 out of 1000. Iow, rape is not a crisis on campus.

[Anonymous]

You wake up with someone fucking you after you passed out and think, this can't be happening to me.

Worse, you look around and other bros are videotaping the rape and laughing.

This is real. There is a pervasive rape culture. Teach your boys not to rape drunk girls. It's that simple.

No frat boy was soooo drunk he accidentally raped another bro when he fell off the balcony and his dick slipped into his bro's ass. It's predatory and a culture of violence against women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You wake up with someone fucking you after you passed out and think, this can't be happening to me.

Worse, you look around and other bros are videotaping the rape and laughing.

This is real. There is a pervasive rape culture. Teach your boys not to rape drunk girls. It's that simple.

No frat boy was soooo drunk he accidentally raped another bro when he fell off the balcony and his dick slipped into his bro's ass. It's predatory and a culture of violence against women.

Right. Got it.

So, why on earth would any young woman get drunk at a frat party?

I'm not justifying the criminal behavior. Rather, I'm questioning why women aren't taking precaution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No frat boy was soooo drunk he accidentally raped another bro when he fell off the balcony and his dick slipped into his bro's ass. It's predatory and a culture of violence against women.

This. Odd that the drunk frat brat can't control the way he treats women, but can control the way he treats men, isn't it?

If my 14 year old DS knows one thing it's that you treat people with respect-- and you sure as heck act respectfully women-- starting with mom. ("Excuse me, but your behavior/ attitude is unacceptable. I am an adult, a woman, your mother, and most importantly a human being. Please adjust your attitude and try again.")

And if there is one thing I hate having to teach 12 year old DD, it's that she can't trust that a man will treat her with respect. Because tomorrow's men are being raised by the men who come on DCUM today and talk about looking out for #1 and how women who drank (wore a short skirt, wore a sexy outfit, went out in a date with them, was alone with them in a secluded place, etc., etc.) was asking for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Right. Got it.

So, why on earth would any young woman get drunk at a frat party?

I'm not justifying the criminal behavior. Rather, I'm questioning why women aren't taking precaution.

The vast majority of women who get drunk at frat parties do not get raped, so that's one reason. Frat parties are a part of campus social life, so it's not surprising that women and men attend them. Most of the time, they have fun at those parties.

Your question is like asking why anyone drives on the highway, because some people get into fatal or life-altering accidents.

Excessive alcohol consumption on college campuses is a problem that should be addressed (and lots of colleges, including Stanford, try to). Alcohol can be a factor in rape. But 95+% (okay, that number is made up) of sexual encounters, even ones that occur at or after a frat party, where one or both people have been drinking alcohol do not end in rape. Rape, and other forms of sexual assault, is committed by a minority of men. Got it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You wake up with someone fucking you after you passed out and think, this can't be happening to me.

Worse, you look around and other bros are videotaping the rape and laughing.

This is real. There is a pervasive rape culture. Teach your boys not to rape drunk girls. It's that simple.

No frat boy was soooo drunk he accidentally raped another bro when he fell off the balcony and his dick slipped into his bro's ass. It's predatory and a culture of violence against women.

Right. Got it.

So, why on earth would any young woman get drunk at a frat party?

I'm not justifying the criminal behavior. Rather, I'm questioning why women aren't taking precaution.

Good point.

So why on Earth would a guy get drunk at a frat party?

If he might commit a crime, like sexual assault, while drunk, ruin another person's life and end up in jail, why isn't he taking the precaution of staying sober?

Oh yeah, male privilege. That's the woman's job. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Right. Got it.

So, why on earth would any young woman get drunk at a frat party?

I'm not justifying the criminal behavior. Rather, I'm questioning why women aren't taking precaution.

The vast majority of women who get drunk at frat parties do not get raped, so that's one reason. Frat parties are a part of campus social life, so it's not surprising that women and men attend them. Most of the time, they have fun at those parties.

Your question is like asking why anyone drives on the highway, because some people get into fatal or life-altering accidents.

Excessive alcohol consumption on college campuses is a problem that should be addressed (and lots of colleges, including Stanford, try to). Alcohol can be a factor in rape. But 95+% (okay, that number is made up) of sexual encounters, even ones that occur at or after a frat party, where one or both people have been drinking alcohol do not end in rape. Rape, and other forms of sexual assault, is committed by a minority of men. Got it?

Your comparison to just driving down the highway is incorrect; getting drunk at a frat party would be akin to speeding down the highway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, by the way, he had an extensive history of alcohol and drug use in high school. And there was testimony from another woman that he had gotten aggressive with her the prior week. 20 minutes of action? Bullshit. More like a pattern of this behavior. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/10/court-records-shed-more-light-on-the-brock-turner-sexual-assault-case/

I'm not going to buy the Washington Post. But from what I've read other places there is evidence that he drank and experimented with drugs during the spring of his senior year of HS.

I haven't seen where he had any kind of experience with social drinking, hooking up, etc. He was a relative newbie to the whole frat party drinking hook up scene.

Does the Post report differently?

Yes. Pictures in his phone that appear to show him holding a pipe to smoke pot. Messages from his phone where he said he "raged" for an hour and a half the prior night. "Repeated exchanges" in his cell phone about buying and using drugs and alcohol. All his Senior year of HS. And testimony from a girl at a party a week prior to the Incident about unwanted touching at a party, not taking no for an answer, that he "creeped her out," that he was very overly persistent, and that she was finally able to "get away."

So, choirboy who just overdid it a little the first time he drank? Nope. One bad decision his whole life? Nope. This guy was a predator who likes to party in the fine tradition of the likes of Duke LAX.

Betcha that with the pics of the exposed breasts in a swim team group chat, we've just seen the tip of the iceberg with Stanford Swimming.

And I think you underestimate how hard these people have to work their bodies to get to an Olympic level of swim. There is no way this guy had a hard core drinking/drug habit and going to early morning swim practice/meets/competitions. Experimenting with drugs/alcohol in the spring of your senior year of HS does not = hard core druggie.

I think the facts will show that he had very limited social drinking experience and was socially awkward with women. He wasn't an angel at that party, he did wrong. But to paint him as though he is a serial rapist predator isn't right. There is simply no evidence that he was anything of the kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ ...and blaming the drunk person only seems to happen in cases of sexual assault.

?

What? Not true.

First, it's not victim blaming to point out how reckless it is to black out anywhere. It's a teachable moment IMHO.

If a drunk passes out and gets robbed, people would have the same reaction: sucks that you were robbed---robbery is a crime---you might not have been robbed had you not been passed out/walking down the dark alley/walking across the campus alone at 2am. Rape, robbery, falling in a ditch, whatever. A person's actions usually play a role. Pointing that out isn't victim blaming though. It's just a fact.

Yes, you are victim blaming.

If I'm sh*t faced drunk at a bar and I tell a guy that he can have access to the money in my purse. I smile and open my purse and show him the money. And he happily takes my money and buys himself dinner, appetizers and drinks. I wake up in the morning to find my money all gone. I'm not sure what happened to my money. Since I don't remember what happened to my money that means that it must have been stolen. Right?

Wow.

Yes WOW. I use that analogy because I think that it demonstrates a gray area that is usually present in date rape scenarios. Rarely does date rape involve a 100% non-responsive unaware person. Drinking your self black out drunk is serious. You do things and agree to things that you may not otherwise agree to. You may pass out in the process. You can not assume that other people are going to look out for you and act in your best interests. That goes for men and women. You need to look out for you.

Thanks for helping me completely lose faith in humanity. So men should "look out for themselves" and "take" women who are not physically strong enough or are too intoxicated to fight them off? You're a disgusting pig. In fact, date rape is most often black and white. She wants to stop and he doesn't, and she "looks out for himself" and overpowers her (often). Or HE KNOWS she is to out of it to make him stop or say yes or no, and "looks out for himself" and takes what he wants.

And if Brock Turner ends up with a cell mate ("acquaintance") who "looks out for himself"? I guess that's not a shade of grey, because women want to be sexually assaulted or have it coming and men don't. I mean-- Brock should know when he goes to jail that he could be raped, right?

You are talking about physical FORCE. There is no indication that Brock Turner use brute strength to get Emily behind that dumpster. They were behind that dumpster for approx 7 minutes and she passed out at some point and he continued to sexually engage with her body - that was wrong.

But Emily absolutely is responsible for drinking herself black out drunk and her own actions that night. Brock is only responsible for what HE actually did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You wake up with someone fucking you after you passed out and think, this can't be happening to me.

Worse, you look around and other bros are videotaping the rape and laughing.

This is real. There is a pervasive rape culture. Teach your boys not to rape drunk girls. It's that simple.

No frat boy was soooo drunk he accidentally raped another bro when he fell off the balcony and his dick slipped into his bro's ass. It's predatory and a culture of violence against women.

Right. Got it.

So, why on earth would any young woman get drunk at a frat party?

I'm not justifying the criminal behavior. Rather, I'm questioning why women aren't taking precaution.

Good point.

So why on Earth would a guy get drunk at a frat party?

If he might commit a crime, like sexual assault, while drunk, ruin another person's life and end up in jail, why isn't he taking the precaution of staying sober?

Oh yeah, male privilege. That's the woman's job. Got it.

+1000