Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

The statements a few posts up about the difficulty of natural birth in hospitals is BS. I have had two unmedicated births at VHC - one less than a week ago. Karen King was my CNM. She and the nursing staff respected all of my wishes and were in constant communication with me (and my doula) about my preferences. I labored at home for the majority of the time with both labors, again with my husband and doula staying in touch with Karen by phone. Then I went to VHC and had an awesome delivery and post-partum experience both times.

PP there are several things about your experience that are different from many FTMs. 1.) you delivered with a mid wife not an ob/gyn at a hospital that allows midwives 2.) you had a doula and 3.) you stayed home for as long as possible so you did not run into any clock issues. I was poking around some homebirth forums and many of the moms there had a very different experience with their first hospital birth. They had an ob/gyn who told them natural was fine but then strong armed them into lots of interventions. Based on trusting their ob/gyn, they only prepared for natural with the hospital lamaze classes. They ended with a nurse who has no interest in natural childbirth. They felt pressured, bullied, and violated by their hospital experience and did not want to subject themselves to that treatment again.

While I agree with you that you can have a natural birth in a hospital, I disagree with you that it is easy for anyone to do this. Many hospitals and practices do not allow CNMs to deliver and provide prenatal care. Some ob/gyns in the area do not a doula to be present at your birth. Some hospitals discourage doulas and have had no doula policies. Some women are very, very uncomfortable with any type of confrontation or become less comfortable with it when they are in pain or vulnerable. Nurses, in particular, seem to be pretty good at sizing up who they can bully and manipulate. For many of us, it is no problem. We know the policies, our legal rights, our risk profile but for others it is more difficult to push back.

[Anonymous]

If others out there have information to the contrary, please post.

Just did. Bottom of page 99.

Statements of some area hospitals.

[Anonymous]

I had a very positive experience at Shady Grove, and I think they're known as being pretty natural childbirth friendly. I gave birth there in 2009 and my daughter didn't leave my side for any of the initial checks or tests, and she had her first bath in the room as well. She left our room just three times during our stay: for a hearing test and a weight check (back within minutes from both of those) and for a car seat check in the nursery since she was teeny at three and a half weeks early. My husband sat with her for the hour-long test and said the nursery was pretty deserted - I didn't get the impression that it's the norm at Shady Grove for babies to spend much time in the nursery unless there's a specific reason for them to be away from their mothers.

As for monitoring policies, my husband unhooked my monitor several times while I was in labor, and we left it off for decent stretches - no one ever came to ask us why it wasn't on or to tell us we had to put it back on. We were generally left alone together, which was what we both wanted. One nurse was semi-pushy on the Pitocin front (which I did end up having, just several hours later than she would have liked) and did suggest I might want an epidural about six hours sooner than I wound up having one (thanks, Pitocin), but that was really the extent of anyone trying to tell me what I needed to do. She asked, I said no thank you, and that was the end of that. I chose to say yes to Pitocin and eventually an epidural because I was determined to avoid a c-section if I could, and I did, so I left with a healthy baby and the outcome I desired.

[Anonymous]

Good to know! Thanks for posting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The statements a few posts up about the difficulty of natural birth in hospitals is BS. I have had two unmedicated births at VHC - one less than a week ago. Karen King was my CNM. She and the nursing staff respected all of my wishes and were in constant communication with me (and my doula) about my preferences. I labored at home for the majority of the time with both labors, again with my husband and doula staying in touch with Karen by phone. Then I went to VHC and had an awesome delivery and post-partum experience both times.

PP there are several things about your experience that are different from many FTMs. 1.) you delivered with a mid wife not an ob/gyn at a hospital that allows midwives 2.) you had a doula and 3.) you stayed home for as long as possible so you did not run into any clock issues. I was poking around some homebirth forums and many of the moms there had a very different experience with their first hospital birth. They had an ob/gyn who told them natural was fine but then strong armed them into lots of interventions. Based on trusting their ob/gyn, they only prepared for natural with the hospital lamaze classes. They ended with a nurse who has no interest in natural childbirth. They felt pressured, bullied, and violated by their hospital experience and did not want to subject themselves to that treatment again.

While I agree with you that you can have a natural birth in a hospital, I disagree with you that it is easy for anyone to do this. Many hospitals and practices do not allow CNMs to deliver and provide prenatal care. Some ob/gyns in the area do not a doula to be present at your birth. Some hospitals discourage doulas and have had no doula policies. Some women are very, very uncomfortable with any type of confrontation or become less comfortable with it when they are in pain or vulnerable. Nurses, in particular, seem to be pretty good at sizing up who they can bully and manipulate. For many of us, it is no problem. We know the policies, our legal rights, our risk profile but for others it is more difficult to push back.

Respecfully, if the PP was able to deliver with a mid wife not an ob/gyn , at a hospital that allows midwives, with a doula stay home for as long as possible – why can’t we all? Is she Wonder Woman??? These options are available nearly everywhere provided you do your homework the same as you’ll have to do for a home-birth. Until home-birth forums change their focus to “what to do if you live in x, y, and z where you have amazingly fewer choices”, it’s pretty clear the movement doesn’t care for such “best of both worlds” options.
As for being strong-armed – are you a grown woman or a child? When a midwife paves the way, she’s helpful but when an ob does it, it’s bullying? Speak up for yourself when that’s really the case. If that shift’s nurse sucks, assign your partner/doula/midwife to deal with them. FORESEE THESE THINGS. As for “subjecting yourself” to it again… please. First time around basically serves to design what you want next time. It’s not about the setting, it’s about figuring out what you want and making it happen. One place/doc was bad, find another. Doesn’t mean they’re all bad. Home birthers certainly fear Karen Carr being deemed bad will make people hate midwifery… why can’t the same case-by-case attitude go to OBs and hospitals too?

And though many hospitals and practices might not allow CNMs to deliver and provide prenatal care, that doesn’t mean you can’t find one that does. It also doesn’t mean one can’t accompany and coach your labor. Let’s face it – they leave you alone for the most part of your labor. If they resent you not playing by their “rules” (whatever), they’ll ignore you even more. You get plenty of space with your partner. Some ob/gyns in the area do not a doula to be present a

“SOME hospitals discourage doulas and have had no doula policies.” Again with the “some”! And some doulas are mean and you don’t like them. Does that mean you shouldn’t get a different one???? Does that make it “hard to”???

“Some women are very, very uncomfortable with any type of confrontation or become less comfortable with it when they are in pain or vulnerable.” OMG. You’re telling me that you’re willing to take on the courage required for a home-birth and all the criticism that might attract and the people shopping it takes but you can’t take confrontation from the doc you’ve been seeing throughout pregnancy?????? Fine. PARTNER PARTNER PARTNER!You’ll have to go to bat way more than this for your kids in the coming years.

“We know the policies, our legal rights, our risk profile but for others it is more difficult to push back.”When natural birth advocates pay equal attention to educating their readers on these rights and possibilities as they do on doing it all from home, I’ll agree that you’re being objective about this. Till then, come on.

According to this, the only way a homebirth is the only solution to getting its advantages is IF you have no hospital that will comply to ANYTHING, in which ALL the staff is confrontational, IF the mom can’t stand confrontation, IF only the father can go in with you (and is a mute eunuch), IF you’ve been traumatized in the past by this very situation. Wow. If all this is going on with you, fine. I’ll help you shop for the midwife.

Believe it or not, before I came on this thread 90 pages ago, I was actually fine with home birth (just not for me). Now, after reading up on it and researching it on a gazillion pro-sites (and honestly only a few con-sites), I’ve concluded I could NEVER condone it. I have found NOTHING it can accomplish that can’t be accomplished in a hospital. Not saying it should be illegal, just saying women should know they can accomplish it all from a hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

While I agree with you that you can have a natural birth in a hospital, I disagree with you that it is easy for anyone to do this. Many hospitals and practices do not allow CNMs to deliver and provide prenatal care. Some ob/gyns in the area do not a doula to be present at your birth. Some hospitals discourage doulas and have had no doula policies. Some women are very, very uncomfortable with any type of confrontation or become less comfortable with it when they are in pain or vulnerable. Nurses, in particular, seem to be pretty good at sizing up who they can bully and manipulate. For many of us, it is no problem. We know the policies, our legal rights, our risk profile but for others it is more difficult to push back.

Yep, here we go again hating on the nurses as an entire group. Get a grip lady. As a nurse, I've run into FAR more doulas who take it personal/get angry when their client eventually chooses and epidural or (god forbid) realizes at the end of several exhausting hours that a c-section is what is best for them and their baby. I don't know many nurses who become personally and emotionally involved in what YOUR particular birth choices are, rather we try to meet you where you at and support you through them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQcbwr7zgQ

at around 3:22 they start talking about the "newborn nursery" where all babies are taken 90 minutes after birth. Not saying this is a bad hospital, but separating moms and babies to take babies to a nursery is not an evidence-based practice as far as I know.

OMG! I get soooo mad at these robotic drones who sacrifice their freewill and take basically a birth goddess to the medical/pharmaceutical/industrial complex where these babies are birth raped and mothers are drugged under florescent lights and surrounded by bleeping and blinking technological trappings such as monitors and IV drips and the skeletal spider-like tentacles of pseduo-society. I'll bet that hospital nursery even has little chemically laden Chinese cotton knit hats that are chemically died bluish or pinkish and then forcibly head raped onto the baby's young skulls. You show me one group -- ONE GROUP -- in nature that forces the newborn organism offspring to wear constricting headware so the creatures can immediately conform to society's definition of "male" or "female." And what if this young newborn organism is specifically a "male" gender identifier, but is forced into a pinkish chemically dyed hat while a defenseless organism.

Is it any wonder that society is so wrong headed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQcbwr7zgQ

at around 3:22 they start talking about the "newborn nursery" where all babies are taken 90 minutes after birth. Not saying this is a bad hospital, but separating moms and babies to take babies to a nursery is not an evidence-based practice as far as I know.

OMG! I get soooo mad at these robotic drones who sacrifice their freewill and take basically a birth goddess to the medical/pharmaceutical/industrial complex where these babies are birth raped and mothers are drugged under florescent lights and surrounded by bleeping and blinking technological trappings such as monitors and IV drips and the skeletal spider-like tentacles of pseduo-society. I'll bet that hospital nursery even has little chemically laden Chinese cotton knit hats that are chemically died bluish or pinkish and then forcibly head raped onto the baby's young skulls. You show me one group -- ONE GROUP -- in nature that forces the newborn organism offspring to wear constricting headware so the creatures can immediately conform to society's definition of "male" or "female." And what if this young newborn organism is specifically a "male" gender identifier, but is forced into a pinkish chemically dyed hat while a defenseless organism.

Is it any wonder that society is so wrong headed?

Uh... I hope there's no gun pointed at your head to keep you from unthethering yourself from this computerized contraption that no other natural being uses to communicate... clothed in anything than a natural silk robe a worm as voluntarily woven for you... I mean, you can't go completely "natural" here b/c nudity would reveal to society what gender you belong to, obviously forcing their gender-bias onto their expectations of you.

Home-birth advocates, rejoice: one of your opponants does NOT think this "gem" over here represents you as people in touch with some amount of lost "nature" v. frigging nutcases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSQcbwr7zgQ

at around 3:22 they start talking about the "newborn nursery" where all babies are taken 90 minutes after birth. Not saying this is a bad hospital, but separating moms and babies to take babies to a nursery is not an evidence-based practice as far as I know.

OMG! I get soooo mad at these robotic drones who sacrifice their freewill and take basically a birth goddess to the medical/pharmaceutical/industrial complex where these babies are birth raped and mothers are drugged under florescent lights and surrounded by bleeping and blinking technological trappings such as monitors and IV drips and the skeletal spider-like tentacles of pseduo-society. I'll bet that hospital nursery even has little chemically laden Chinese cotton knit hats that are chemically died bluish or pinkish and then forcibly head raped onto the baby's young skulls. You show me one group -- ONE GROUP -- in nature that forces the newborn organism offspring to wear constricting headware so the creatures can immediately conform to society's definition of "male" or "female." And what if this young newborn organism is specifically a "male" gender identifier, but is forced into a pinkish chemically dyed hat while a defenseless organism.

Is it any wonder that society is so wrong headed?

Uh... I hope there's no gun pointed at your head to keep you from unthethering yourself from this computerized contraption that no other natural being uses to communicate... clothed in anything than a natural silk robe a worm as voluntarily woven for you... I mean, you can't go completely "natural" here b/c nudity would reveal to society what gender you belong to, obviously forcing their gender-bias onto their expectations of you.

Home-birth advocates, rejoice: one of your opponants does NOT think this "gem" over here represents you as people in touch with some amount of lost "nature" v. frigging nutcases.

Obviously, plebian-drone comformists like yourself are missing the larger point. In your defense, I feel that your lack of original thought or comprehension is quite common for people who flaunt within a culture that is laden with psychotropic drug cocktail-think.

Obviously, home birth in any state, regardless of how the legal/political/industrial complex defines it for you, is always safer than entering a biotic flea market of which is the hospital/factory/whorehouse. Only those who break through this mold and grasp a natural and normal method will find themselves elucidated by the experience of birth.

When I took a workshop at The Farm, it was clear to us all, more so than any of my traumatic brain raping of school and conformist cogs, it was clear to us all that home birth midwives are the true saints of modern day society. When I obtained my CPM status, and I agree it is only a paper, but it represents my true expertise as a birth practitioner and guide, I entered a life with which persecutions and prosecutions could be evident and present. Midwifery is illegal in my state. Of course, my state records top rates of lung cancer rates and obesity and domestic homicide. Prosecution is the threat that all of live with and we are often driven deeper underground. I compare this to modern day Jesus Christs who spread good will and message and salvation through God/Goddess, with the knowledge that at any moment the Roman soldiers may come for you with the legal phalanxes and chariots of courtroom fire.

If this thread teaches us anything, it is that Karen Carr did nothing wrong. Do you really think the thought of five days in jail will destroy her or me for that matter. What I do is blessed by our God/Goddess, and at The Farm we readily understood that persecution by legal authorities is only the clenched hand of a 21-century man.

Birth is an emergence and not an emergency.

[Anonymous]

Please everyone - recognize the last couple of posts as dripping with sarcasm in an attempt to be humerous and clever and just move on.

[Anonymous]

Make that humorous.

[Anonymous]

Make that humongous

[Anonymous]

Magma

[Anonymous]

Yep, here we go again hating on the nurses as an entire group. Get a grip lady. As a nurse, I've run into FAR more doulas who take it personal/get angry when their client eventually chooses and epidural or (god forbid) realizes at the end of several exhausting hours that a c-section is what is best for them and their baby. I don't know many nurses who become personally and emotionally involved in what YOUR particular birth choices are, rather we try to meet you where you at and support you through them.

As a patient I have run into many crappy nurses and a few wonderful ones. I'm no shrinking violet so I have no problem saying no or telling a bad nurse to shove it. I can see someone else though going along with the bad nurse. I delivered at a hospital where I knew the rooming in policies and I knew the head of the department. I was knew that there was initiative going on to support rooming in yet one of the post partum nurses tried telling me that the baby has to go the nursery at night. I told her no thanks, we plan to have him stay in our room. She tried again to say and I quote "the babies go to the nursery at night". She was really pushy about it and completely wrong. This was BS. I knew it and I told her that she was providing information that not only against our own rights but against hospital policy. I reported her to the department head and the head nurse along with a letter to the hospital administration.

There are some wonderful nurses who really advocate for their patients and do their best to support natural child birth. There are many more who should not be nursing anymore and just want you to do whatever is easiest for them. These are the ones that contribute to why women would consider a homebirth.

[Anonymous]

Quite frankly -- I get frustrated by the idea that everyone wants the same thing, as well.

I had some complications and the doctors were recommending lots of walking. Literally, I was trying to walk (following my c-section) every couple of hours through out our entire second night and day in the hospital.

I needed my husband's help to do that, and quite frankly rooming in wasn't the best solution in that situation. However, rooming in was given such importance at that facility that the nursery wasn't always open -- only when they had the extra staff available to man it.