Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Washington Post:

The Gaza Health Ministry, in a statement for those who “question the validity” of its tally of the dead and injured, said it called on “all institutions” to review its workflow “for the world to know that behind every announced number is the story of a person whose name and identity are known.”

President Biden on Wednesday said he had “no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.”

If anything this is actually an under count thus far. There are many people buried in the rubble that they have not had the ability to excavate. There is separately many missing people in Gaza.

There is no possible way the Gaza Health Ministry could have accurately counted and identified 500 dead within an hour or two of the hospital attack, in the dark and under rubble. None. It defies reality.

They gave an estimate 300-400, then revised it multiple times both up a down. Of course they can give a decent estimate, these were all people sheltering in the parking lot and courtyard of the hospital. The US on the other hand has no way of knowing and no proof to provide.

Reasonable people know there have been significant casualties but also caution against using specific numbers to do tit for tat accounting. The whole conflict is a humanitarian disaster with plenty of blame to go around.

[Anonymous]

Hey, here’s something Hamas built! A mall: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Mall

The Gaza Mall is a shopping mall that opened in Gaza, State of Palestine, in July 2010.

The shopping venue in the Rimal neighborhood of Gaza extends over 19,000 sq. ft. There are two floors with shops offering international brands.[1] It was built at a cost of $1.5 million.[2]

Salah a-Din Abu Abdo, chair of the mall's board of directors, promised "attractive and competitive prices" in an effort to replace Gaza's traditional open air markets with a comfortable, air-conditioned shopping experience.[1] His goal is to "develop a marketing and leisure culture" among Gazans.[1] According to The Guardian, the mall is part of an entertainment "circuit" for wealthy Gazans, which includes seaside cafes, swimming at the Crazy Water Park and riding at the Faisal Equestrian Club.[3]

The mall features a pharmacy, separate prayer rooms for men and women and stores selling shoes, toys, clothing, and office supplies.[2] A supermarket, children's play area, and restaurant are planned but were not operating in time for the grand opening.[1]

According to CBS News, construction materials and concrete were brought in via the Gaza Strip smuggling tunnels.[4]

Oh and here’s some info about Gaza’s short-lived water park. Unfortunately, jihadist extremists burned it down because it allowed men and women to mingle: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Water_Park

And don’t forget Gaza’s Faisal Equestrian Club, apparently the place to be seen among Gaza’s teenage elite: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_Equestrian_Club

Sure seems like the restrictions Israel put on Gaza after 2005 stopped rich people from having fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Yes. I think a lot of Americans really don’t know the first thing about Gaza and Hamas, but are happy to get swept up in the “free Palestine” movement. Hopefully they’re getting a wake up call.

Same as the dumb "I stand with Israel" statements.

No hun. Not the same.

Yes babes, totes same.

Right, so as you’ve gone to great lengths to repeat: Palestine is not a state. Israel is. It is a pretty functional liberal democracy. Palestine is mostly occupied and governed (in Gaza) by Hamas, which wants to “free Palestine” by eliminating the state of Israel. Saying “free Palestine” is not remotely the same thing as saying one “stands with Isreal” because standing with Israel does not mean you stand for the obliteration of Palestine. Whereas the inverse is true.

So when you say the Palestinians elected Hamas and they must be held to account for their government’s action you are saying …what exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Yes. I think a lot of Americans really don’t know the first thing about Gaza and Hamas, but are happy to get swept up in the “free Palestine” movement. Hopefully they’re getting a wake up call.

Same as the dumb "I stand with Israel" statements.

No hun. Not the same.

Yes babes, totes same.

Right, so as you’ve gone to great lengths to repeat: Palestine is not a state. Israel is. It is a pretty functional liberal democracy. Palestine is mostly occupied and governed (in Gaza) by Hamas, which wants to “free Palestine” by eliminating the state of Israel. Saying “free Palestine” is not remotely the same thing as saying one “stands with Isreal” because standing with Israel does not mean you stand for the obliteration of Palestine. Whereas the inverse is true.

So when you say the Palestinians elected Hamas and they must be held to account for their government’s action you are saying …what exactly?

Did I say that? Where? I said that “Palestine” is largely occupied by Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that runs Gaza and whose ideology calls for the elimination of Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Time to free Palestine. We would save billions in money and countless lives.

As for these billionaires pulling jobs and money from schools, I bet they are deeply racist against Muslims and never hire them. It’s great they are making public statements. Now I hope someone tracks back and see how racist their companies are.

Not until the terrorists are gone. Because doing so now would NOT save countless lives.

At this point isn’t Hamas a government? That means they are not terrorists but a state actor like Israel or Russia. So you can not call them terrorists because they are a state and government. Exactly like Israel is now terrorizing Gaza but they are a state so it is just war.

Neither Palestine nor Gaza is a state. This is an undeniable but inconvenient fact.

That’s not entirely true. Hamas “governs” Gaza, but no one “recognizes” them as a legitimate government. Israel does not govern Gaza. It maintains a border.

Stop lying to both yourself and everyone else.

It is an irrefutable fact that neither Gaza nor Palestine is a state.

You suffer from very black and white thinking.

I don't at all. But this is a clear back and white factual issue.

And what’s your point? Yes, we all know Palestine isn’t a full UN member state. But it has basically all the characteristics of a state beyond formal UN recognition. It has a territory, a government, passports, etc.

No, it doesn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself and everyone else.

Maybe rather than just saying we’re wrong, you could point to some evidence.

Palestine absolutely functions as a quasi-state. It has some state functions and not others.

A "quasi-state" is not a state. You know this. It's not difficult.

Does Israel consider it a state? Nope
Does the United States? Nope
Does the United Nations? Nope
Does Model United Nations? Nope

Nuance isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Nuance is actually my strong suit. There's nothing nuanced about this factual issue. Palestine is not a state. Quasi-state, proposed state, partial state, almost a state, kind of a state, etc are not synonymous with the term state.

You should take an international law course.

Been there done that. Palestine is not a state under the Westphalian System.

It doesn't have defined borders, control of its borders, or control over its population (West Bank settlers say hi) let alone universal recognition. Those are the essential elements of the test.

We have tried. They want to be a terrorist haven instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe this virulent thread is still going with the same people furiously attacking each other back and forth. I wish we could start a new one where we can calmly discuss developments in this important and quickly-changing issue.

You are about to see a real war in your lifetime, maybe you can discuss it calmly over tea and banana bread in another thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

So, nothing you wrote contradicts anything the PP wrote. All of it can be true and their premise holds. In fact, if you look at our southern border, many people living there could be considered” “refugees” under your definition, who were forced off of their land a long time ago. They aren’t sending rockets, terrorizing civilians, and calling for the eradication of the US. Most just want to come back and make some money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

Israel isn’t a theocracy. Jews have always been on the land.

Want to perpetuate any more lies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

So, nothing you wrote contradicts anything the PP wrote. All of it can be true and their premise holds. In fact, if you look at our southern border, many people living there could be considered” “refugees” under your definition, who were forced off of their land a long time ago. They aren’t sending rockets, terrorizing civilians, and calling for the eradication of the US. Most just want to come back and make some money.

Can you imagine if a Mexican terrorist org did this?

Or if that PP wants it to track with a group native to the US, what about a Native American terrorist org?

[Anonymous]

Per The Times of Israel today: IDF “says it has killed three senior commanders in Hamas’s Daraj-Tuffah Battalion in an airstrike in the Gaza Strip today.

The IDF says the strike killed the battalion’s commander, Rifaat Abbas; the deputy commander, Ibrahim Jadba; and a combat support commander, Tarek Maarouf.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

Israel isn’t a theocracy. Jews have always been on the land.

Want to perpetuate any more lies?

Why is there a Star of David on Israel's flag?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

So, nothing you wrote contradicts anything the PP wrote. All of it can be true and their premise holds. In fact, if you look at our southern border, many people living there could be considered” “refugees” under your definition, who were forced off of their land a long time ago. They aren’t sending rockets, terrorizing civilians, and calling for the eradication of the US. Most just want to come back and make some money.

Can you imagine if a Mexican terrorist org did this?

Or if that PP wants it to track with a group native to the US, what about a Native American terrorist org?

When Mexican cartels kill Americans it’s a big problem for the Mexican government, that wants to benefit from trade with the US. The cartels aren’t ethnic nationalists so the analogy is off but the contrast is interesting.

I don’t want to touch the other analogy with a 200 foot pole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

Israel isn’t a theocracy. Jews have always been on the land.

Want to perpetuate any more lies?

Why is there a Star of David on Israel's flag?

A theocracy is a state ruled by clergy or a state that follows religious law.

Israel is not run by Rabbis and does not consider Talmudic law to be its legal system.

Theocracy is a form of government in which one or more deities are recognized as supreme ruling authorities, giving divine guidance to human intermediaries who manage the government's daily affairs,[2][3] or in which human leaders who follow a certain religion are thought of as the ideal and only class of ruler.

Please go back and enroll in Government 101.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Well your scenario does not track of reality. For that the state next door would have to be filled with refugees forced off their land and out of the United States. The US also would have to be a religious state that keeps the other state in poverty and continually kills it thousands of civilians.

Israel isn’t a theocracy. Jews have always been on the land.

Want to perpetuate any more lies?

Why is there a Star of David on Israel's flag?

A theocracy is a state ruled by clergy or a state that follows religious law.

Israel is not run by Rabbis and does not consider Talmudic law to be its legal system.

Theocracy is a form of government in which one or more deities are recognized as supreme ruling authorities, giving divine guidance to human intermediaries who manage the government's daily affairs,[2][3] or in which human leaders who follow a certain religion are thought of as the ideal and only class of ruler.

Please go back and enroll in Government 101.

Now try answering the question.