Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Time to free Palestine. We would save billions in money and countless lives.

As for these billionaires pulling jobs and money from schools, I bet they are deeply racist against Muslims and never hire them. It’s great they are making public statements. Now I hope someone tracks back and see how racist their companies are.

Not until the terrorists are gone. Because doing so now would NOT save countless lives.

At this point isn’t Hamas a government? That means they are not terrorists but a state actor like Israel or Russia. So you can not call them terrorists because they are a state and government. Exactly like Israel is now terrorizing Gaza but they are a state so it is just war.

Neither Palestine nor Gaza is a state. This is an undeniable but inconvenient fact.

That’s not entirely true. Hamas “governs” Gaza, but no one “recognizes” them as a legitimate government. Israel does not govern Gaza. It maintains a border.

Stop lying to both yourself and everyone else.

It is an irrefutable fact that neither Gaza nor Palestine is a state.

You suffer from very black and white thinking.

I don't at all. But this is a clear back and white factual issue.

And what’s your point? Yes, we all know Palestine isn’t a full UN member state. But it has basically all the characteristics of a state beyond formal UN recognition. It has a territory, a government, passports, etc.

No, it doesn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself and everyone else.

Maybe rather than just saying we’re wrong, you could point to some evidence.

Palestine absolutely functions as a quasi-state. It has some state functions and not others.

A "quasi-state" is not a state. You know this. It's not difficult.

Does Israel consider it a state? Nope
Does the United States? Nope
Does the United Nations? Nope
Does Model United Nations? Nope

Nuance isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Nuance is actually my strong suit. There's nothing nuanced about this factual issue. Palestine is not a state. Quasi-state, proposed state, partial state, almost a state, kind of a state, etc are not synonymous with the term state.

You should take an international law course.

Been there done that. Palestine is not a state under the Westphalian System.

It doesn't have defined borders, control of its borders, or control over its population (West Bank settlers say hi) let alone universal recognition. Those are the essential elements of the test.

You are wasting your time arguing with the "I stand with Israel" crew because it's in their script to play dumb about Israel's involvement in the creation of one of the biggest concentration camps in modern history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Yes. I think a lot of Americans really don’t know the first thing about Gaza and Hamas, but are happy to get swept up in the “free Palestine” movement. Hopefully they’re getting a wake up call.

Same as the dumb "I stand with Israel" statements.

No hun. Not the same.

Yes babes, totes same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to free Palestine. We would save billions in money and countless lives.

As for these billionaires pulling jobs and money from schools, I bet they are deeply racist against Muslims and never hire them. It’s great they are making public statements. Now I hope someone tracks back and see how racist their companies are.

Not until the terrorists are gone. Because doing so now would NOT save countless lives.

At this point isn’t Hamas a government? That means they are not terrorists but a state actor like Israel or Russia. So you can not call them terrorists because they are a state and government. Exactly like Israel is now terrorizing Gaza but they are a state so it is just war.

Neither Palestine nor Gaza is a state. This is an undeniable but inconvenient fact.

That’s not entirely true. Hamas “governs” Gaza, but no one “recognizes” them as a legitimate government. Israel does not govern Gaza. It maintains a border.

Stop lying to both yourself and everyone else.

It is an irrefutable fact that neither Gaza nor Palestine is a state.

You suffer from very black and white thinking.

I don't at all. But this is a clear back and white factual issue.

And what’s your point? Yes, we all know Palestine isn’t a full UN member state. But it has basically all the characteristics of a state beyond formal UN recognition. It has a territory, a government, passports, etc.

No, it doesn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself and everyone else.

Maybe rather than just saying we’re wrong, you could point to some evidence.

Palestine absolutely functions as a quasi-state. It has some state functions and not others.

A "quasi-state" is not a state. You know this. It's not difficult.

Does Israel consider it a state? Nope
Does the United States? Nope
Does the United Nations? Nope
Does Model United Nations? Nope

Nuance isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Nuance is actually my strong suit. There's nothing nuanced about this factual issue. Palestine is not a state. Quasi-state, proposed state, partial state, almost a state, kind of a state, etc are not synonymous with the term state.

You should take an international law course.

Been there done that. Palestine is not a state under the Westphalian System.

It doesn't have defined borders, control of its borders, or control over its population (West Bank settlers say hi) let alone universal recognition. Those are the essential elements of the test.

You are wasting your time arguing with the "I stand with Israel" crew because it's in their script to play dumb about Israel's involvement in the creation of one of the biggest concentration camps in modern history.

I’m not even sure what you’re arguing. First of all, I’ve provided ample evidence to show that Gaza—as awful as it is—is not a concentration camp. You’re welcome to read the stats in this article: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/is-gaza-really-like-a-concentration-camp/

Second, saying Palestine is a quasi-state is not meant to somehow exonerate Bibi or Likud for the role they’ve played.

[Anonymous]

No worries folks, the adults are back in charge and they have an excellent read on the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Yes. I think a lot of Americans really don’t know the first thing about Gaza and Hamas, but are happy to get swept up in the “free Palestine” movement. Hopefully they’re getting a wake up call.

Same as the dumb "I stand with Israel" statements.

No hun. Not the same.

Yes babes, totes same.

DP. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the previous 963 pages, but I've heard rumors that Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims have sometimes not been treating each other very nicely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the US had a region right next to us that had elected a terrorist organization to run it that has as its goal the eradication of our country, what do you think we would do? Especially if that organization infiltrated the USA and killed 40,000 Americans in one day and took 7,700 people hostage?

I think we would rain holy hell on them and most Americans would be happy to see it.

(Numbers are converted to the equivalent percentage of the US population).

Yes. I think a lot of Americans really don’t know the first thing about Gaza and Hamas, but are happy to get swept up in the “free Palestine” movement. Hopefully they’re getting a wake up call.

Same as the dumb "I stand with Israel" statements.

No hun. Not the same.

Yes babes, totes same.

Right, so as you’ve gone to great lengths to repeat: Palestine is not a state. Israel is. It is a pretty functional liberal democracy. Palestine is mostly occupied and governed (in Gaza) by Hamas, which wants to “free Palestine” by eliminating the state of Israel. Saying “free Palestine” is not remotely the same thing as saying one “stands with Isreal” because standing with Israel does not mean you stand for the obliteration of Palestine. Whereas the inverse is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to free Palestine. We would save billions in money and countless lives.

As for these billionaires pulling jobs and money from schools, I bet they are deeply racist against Muslims and never hire them. It’s great they are making public statements. Now I hope someone tracks back and see how racist their companies are.

Not until the terrorists are gone. Because doing so now would NOT save countless lives.

At this point isn’t Hamas a government? That means they are not terrorists but a state actor like Israel or Russia. So you can not call them terrorists because they are a state and government. Exactly like Israel is now terrorizing Gaza but they are a state so it is just war.

Neither Palestine nor Gaza is a state. This is an undeniable but inconvenient fact.

That’s not entirely true. Hamas “governs” Gaza, but no one “recognizes” them as a legitimate government. Israel does not govern Gaza. It maintains a border.

Stop lying to both yourself and everyone else.

It is an irrefutable fact that neither Gaza nor Palestine is a state.

You suffer from very black and white thinking.

I don't at all. But this is a clear back and white factual issue.

And what’s your point? Yes, we all know Palestine isn’t a full UN member state. But it has basically all the characteristics of a state beyond formal UN recognition. It has a territory, a government, passports, etc.

No, it doesn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself and everyone else.

Maybe rather than just saying we’re wrong, you could point to some evidence.

Palestine absolutely functions as a quasi-state. It has some state functions and not others.

A "quasi-state" is not a state. You know this. It's not difficult.

Does Israel consider it a state? Nope
Does the United States? Nope
Does the United Nations? Nope
Does Model United Nations? Nope

Nuance isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Nuance is actually my strong suit. There's nothing nuanced about this factual issue. Palestine is not a state. Quasi-state, proposed state, partial state, almost a state, kind of a state, etc are not synonymous with the term state.

You should take an international law course.

Been there done that. Palestine is not a state under the Westphalian System.

It doesn't have defined borders, control of its borders, or control over its population (West Bank settlers say hi) let alone universal recognition. Those are the essential elements of the test.

You are wasting your time arguing with the "I stand with Israel" crew because it's in their script to play dumb about Israel's involvement in the creation of one of the biggest concentration camps in modern history.

I’m not even sure what you’re arguing. First of all, I’ve provided ample evidence to show that Gaza—as awful as it is—is not a concentration camp. You’re welcome to read the stats in this article: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/is-gaza-really-like-a-concentration-camp/

Second, saying Palestine is a quasi-state is not meant to somehow exonerate Bibi or Likud for the role they’ve played.

So what you are saying is that Gaza is an Israeli colony.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe this virulent thread is still going with the same people furiously attacking each other back and forth. I wish we could start a new one where we can calmly discuss developments in this important and quickly-changing issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe this virulent thread is still going with the same people furiously attacking each other back and forth. I wish we could start a new one where we can calmly discuss developments in this important and quickly-changing issue.

That won't happen because the details scarcely matter. Particular facts are just stones to be placed in a person's pre-existing narrative when they happen to fit. Or thrown at one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the Washington Post:

The Gaza Health Ministry, in a statement for those who “question the validity” of its tally of the dead and injured, said it called on “all institutions” to review its workflow “for the world to know that behind every announced number is the story of a person whose name and identity are known.”

President Biden on Wednesday said he had “no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.”

If anything this is actually an under count thus far. There are many people buried in the rubble that they have not had the ability to excavate. There is separately many missing people in Gaza.

There is no possible way the Gaza Health Ministry could have accurately counted and identified 500 dead within an hour or two of the hospital attack, in the dark and under rubble. None. It defies reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to free Palestine. We would save billions in money and countless lives.

As for these billionaires pulling jobs and money from schools, I bet they are deeply racist against Muslims and never hire them. It’s great they are making public statements. Now I hope someone tracks back and see how racist their companies are.

Not until the terrorists are gone. Because doing so now would NOT save countless lives.

At this point isn’t Hamas a government? That means they are not terrorists but a state actor like Israel or Russia. So you can not call them terrorists because they are a state and government. Exactly like Israel is now terrorizing Gaza but they are a state so it is just war.

Neither Palestine nor Gaza is a state. This is an undeniable but inconvenient fact.

That’s not entirely true. Hamas “governs” Gaza, but no one “recognizes” them as a legitimate government. Israel does not govern Gaza. It maintains a border.

Stop lying to both yourself and everyone else.

It is an irrefutable fact that neither Gaza nor Palestine is a state.

You suffer from very black and white thinking.

I don't at all. But this is a clear back and white factual issue.

And what’s your point? Yes, we all know Palestine isn’t a full UN member state. But it has basically all the characteristics of a state beyond formal UN recognition. It has a territory, a government, passports, etc.

No, it doesn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself and everyone else.

Maybe rather than just saying we’re wrong, you could point to some evidence.

Palestine absolutely functions as a quasi-state. It has some state functions and not others.

A "quasi-state" is not a state. You know this. It's not difficult.

Does Israel consider it a state? Nope
Does the United States? Nope
Does the United Nations? Nope
Does Model United Nations? Nope

Nuance isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Nuance is actually my strong suit. There's nothing nuanced about this factual issue. Palestine is not a state. Quasi-state, proposed state, partial state, almost a state, kind of a state, etc are not synonymous with the term state.

You should take an international law course.

Been there done that. Palestine is not a state under the Westphalian System.

It doesn't have defined borders, control of its borders, or control over its population (West Bank settlers say hi) let alone universal recognition. Those are the essential elements of the test.

You are wasting your time arguing with the "I stand with Israel" crew because it's in their script to play dumb about Israel's involvement in the creation of one of the biggest concentration camps in modern history.

I’m not even sure what you’re arguing. First of all, I’ve provided ample evidence to show that Gaza—as awful as it is—is not a concentration camp. You’re welcome to read the stats in this article: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/is-gaza-really-like-a-concentration-camp/

Second, saying Palestine is a quasi-state is not meant to somehow exonerate Bibi or Likud for the role they’ve played.

So what you are saying is that Gaza is an Israeli colony.

Is that what you took from the AEI article? Did you even read it? Do you know what a colony is?

So many RED flags from that link: The Washington Examiner has as much journalistic integrity as Faux News. American Enterprise Institute? And he's Jewish. I can't take you seriously.

You realize there are objective health and economic statistics in there, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to free Palestine. We would save billions in money and countless lives.

As for these billionaires pulling jobs and money from schools, I bet they are deeply racist against Muslims and never hire them. It’s great they are making public statements. Now I hope someone tracks back and see how racist their companies are.

Not until the terrorists are gone. Because doing so now would NOT save countless lives.

At this point isn’t Hamas a government? That means they are not terrorists but a state actor like Israel or Russia. So you can not call them terrorists because they are a state and government. Exactly like Israel is now terrorizing Gaza but they are a state so it is just war.

Neither Palestine nor Gaza is a state. This is an undeniable but inconvenient fact.

That’s not entirely true. Hamas “governs” Gaza, but no one “recognizes” them as a legitimate government. Israel does not govern Gaza. It maintains a border.

Stop lying to both yourself and everyone else.

It is an irrefutable fact that neither Gaza nor Palestine is a state.

You suffer from very black and white thinking.

I don't at all. But this is a clear back and white factual issue.

And what’s your point? Yes, we all know Palestine isn’t a full UN member state. But it has basically all the characteristics of a state beyond formal UN recognition. It has a territory, a government, passports, etc.

No, it doesn't and you know that. Stop lying to yourself and everyone else.

Maybe rather than just saying we’re wrong, you could point to some evidence.

Palestine absolutely functions as a quasi-state. It has some state functions and not others.

A "quasi-state" is not a state. You know this. It's not difficult.

Does Israel consider it a state? Nope
Does the United States? Nope
Does the United Nations? Nope
Does Model United Nations? Nope

Nuance isn’t your strong suit, is it?

Nuance is actually my strong suit. There's nothing nuanced about this factual issue. Palestine is not a state. Quasi-state, proposed state, partial state, almost a state, kind of a state, etc are not synonymous with the term state.

You should take an international law course.

Been there done that. Palestine is not a state under the Westphalian System.

It doesn't have defined borders, control of its borders, or control over its population (West Bank settlers say hi) let alone universal recognition. Those are the essential elements of the test.

You are wasting your time arguing with the "I stand with Israel" crew because it's in their script to play dumb about Israel's involvement in the creation of one of the biggest concentration camps in modern history.

I’m not even sure what you’re arguing. First of all, I’ve provided ample evidence to show that Gaza—as awful as it is—is not a concentration camp. You’re welcome to read the stats in this article: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/is-gaza-really-like-a-concentration-camp/

Second, saying Palestine is a quasi-state is not meant to somehow exonerate Bibi or Likud for the role they’ve played.

So what you are saying is that Gaza is an Israeli colony.

Is that what you took from the AEI article? Did you even read it? Do you know what a colony is?

So many RED flags from that link: The Washington Examiner has as much journalistic integrity as Faux News. American Enterprise Institute? And he's Jewish. I can't take you seriously.

You realize there are objective health and economic statistics in there, right?

Here’s corroboration of just one of the health metrics he pointed to:

Life expectancy has steadily risen in Gaza and the West Bank from 72 years in 2009 to 74 years in 2018: https://www.ceicdata.com/en/palestinian-territory-occupied/vital-statistics/life-expectancy-at-birth-gaza-strip-female

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Washington Post:

The Gaza Health Ministry, in a statement for those who “question the validity” of its tally of the dead and injured, said it called on “all institutions” to review its workflow “for the world to know that behind every announced number is the story of a person whose name and identity are known.”

President Biden on Wednesday said he had “no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.”

If anything this is actually an under count thus far. There are many people buried in the rubble that they have not had the ability to excavate. There is separately many missing people in Gaza.

There is no possible way the Gaza Health Ministry could have accurately counted and identified 500 dead within an hour or two of the hospital attack, in the dark and under rubble. None. It defies reality.

They gave an estimate 300-400, then revised it multiple times both up an down. Of course they can give a decent estimate, these were all people sheltering in the parking lot and courtyard of the hospital. The US on the other hand has no way of knowing and no proof to provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Washington Post:

The Gaza Health Ministry, in a statement for those who “question the validity” of its tally of the dead and injured, said it called on “all institutions” to review its workflow “for the world to know that behind every announced number is the story of a person whose name and identity are known.”

President Biden on Wednesday said he had “no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.”

If anything this is actually an under count thus far. There are many people buried in the rubble that they have not had the ability to excavate. There is separately many missing people in Gaza.

There is no possible way the Gaza Health Ministry could have accurately counted and identified 500 dead within an hour or two of the hospital attack, in the dark and under rubble. None. It defies reality.

They gave an estimate 300-400, then revised it multiple times both up a down. Of course they can give a decent estimate, these were all people sheltering in the parking lot and courtyard of the hospital. The US on the other hand has no way of knowing and no proof to provide.

Keep considering Hamas to be credible. That’ll definitely lead you closer to the truth.