Looks like a new Gaza war has started

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe Israel didn’t know Oct 7 was near. The hostages remarks about balloons with fire being sent days prior as a warning /message seals it for me. Egyptians also claim they warned Israel.

At this point, I believe Israel and Hamas are collaborators working to control the Gaza Strip together and make money together . From time to time, Both don’t mind using their own public as human shields for wars . This only helps right wing Israel and right wing Hamas to hold on to power in their respective regions.


+1 This was a massive military failure by the IDF or they let it happen.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe Israel didn’t know Oct 7 was near. The hostages remarks about balloons with fire being sent days prior as a warning /message seals it for me. Egyptians also claim they warned Israel.

At this point, I believe Israel and Hamas are collaborators working to control the Gaza Strip together and make money together . From time to time, Both don’t mind using their own public as human shields for wars . This only helps right wing Israel and right wing Hamas to hold on to power in their respective regions.


+1 This was a massive military failure by the IDF or they let it happen.


Want the war with Iran. The only unknow at this point is how much US was signed off.
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Anonymous wrote:It’s a very scary time to be a Jewish student on many college campuses. And antisemitism is up almost 400 percent from this time last year, per ADL.


This is so disingenuous.

Zero Jewish students have been killed in hate crimes in the United States. A 6 year old Palestinian boy from Chicago was murdered to preemptively “protect” Jews from antisemitism.

He was 6 years old.

It’s much more dangerous to be a Palestinian child in the United States than a Jewish one. Yet, nobody cares. His death doesn’t matter because he wasn’t Jewish, and you’re spreading more of the propaganda that got him killed.



You’re such a liar.

You think zero Jews get killed in the US due to hate crimes?

https://apnews.com/article/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-ba843b83bf674d2603a07add574f13ea


That was written in response to claims that it’s a scary time to be a Jewish student in the US.

Zero Jewish students have been killed in the United States in recent years but there has been a Palestinian child murdered in a hate crime LAST WEEK because of his religion.

https://apnews.com/article/hate-crime-illinois-war-israel-hamas-palestinian-a230a2347485974f628ee97af41e3236

The link you provided was for a crime that happened 5 years ago and was overwhelmingly condemned. You still can’t bring yourself to admit that Palestinian children are being murdered NOW to preemptively protect Israel. They’re being murdered in Gaza and Palestinian children are not safe in the United States either.

In the United States it’s overwhelmingly safer to be a Jewish student than a Palestinian one.



I’m sympathetic to the horrific Islamophobia in the US but the murder and death stats show that you are wildly wrong. Don’t go down this route. You will look like a fool.
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Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?


No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0


Or whether they’re German or British, right?


Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.


I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.


So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.


No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.


Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.


There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.


Good lord. Yes.

Though I’m seeing the logic expressed elsewhere that because Isreal has illegal settlements int he West Bank, it is somehow occupying Gaza and responsible for Hamas? People have no idea what they are talking about.


They say that because Israel has had Gaza under a blockade since 2005 and they severely restrict the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza. It’s de facto occultation.

You’re being very disingenuous here.


Right, because Israel has the same relationship with Hamas that we have with Canada? Are we back at this again? Free trade with a terrorist group is not a thing. Sucks to be a terrorist organization.


Hamas /= Palestine


Hamas was elected and controls Gaza. Do you not know this?


Even better, Jordan occupied the West Bank from 1948-1967 and never even considered setting up an independent Palestinian state. Then, in 1970-71, Jordan killed some 3,000 Palestinians associated with Arafat and exiled another 20,000.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe Israel didn’t know Oct 7 was near. The hostages remarks about balloons with fire being sent days prior as a warning /message seals it for me. Egyptians also claim they warned Israel.

At this point, I believe Israel and Hamas are collaborators working to control the Gaza Strip together and make money together . From time to time, Both don’t mind using their own public as human shields for wars . This only helps right wing Israel and right wing Hamas to hold on to power in their respective regions.


+1 This was a massive military failure by the IDF or they let it happen.


One thing you learn very quickly in the Middle East is a huge divide between public statements and actual facts. Everyone talks to each other. EVERYONE. Even sworn enemies. Everyone haggles. I guarantee you that even at this hour, Bibi's administration and Hamas are in daily contact. It may not be direct but they totally are. There is stuff going on there that you'll never know about.
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Anonymous wrote:Rania, the Palestinian-born Queen of Jordan, speaks out:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/24/middleeast/queen-rania-jordan-amanpour-interview-intl/index.html


Hey Rania -- why not give the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Jordan citizenship?

They are treated like second class citizens, without the full rights of other Jordanians.

Terrible.


Hey Bibi/Israel, why not give back Palestinian land you've stolen?


Oh, do you mean like Israel tried to do in 2000 with the two-state deal and 95% of 1967 borders? And financial reparations?



Let's discuss those brand new settlements in the West Bank......


Great! If Arafat had accepted the deal, those brand new settlements would not exist and that's a fact. Palestine would be 23 years old.



Let's not pretend that you know what was offered and what was rejected.


It's not a well-guarded secret. Try reading a book.

You can start with this one.



Or you can, you know, read stuff by people who were in the room?

https://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_shlomo_ben

SHLOMO BEN-AMI: Yes, yes. Okay, the last third part of the book, as Dr. Finkelstein says, there is the diplomat, and this same diplomat still behaves in a way as a historian when he says in this book that Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.

This is the Israeli Foreign Minister talking, the person who was in the room, and he admits it was a bad deal for the Palestinians because it was all about "Israeli needs over Palestinian rights."


Or you can, you know, have a clue who Dennis Ross is and that he WAS IN THE ROOM.

Also, please stop trotting out Norman Finkelstein. He is a radical anti-Israel academic with a burning agenda. I know he's your token Jew, but find someone else.
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Anonymous wrote:This is happening all over the world -- at NYU at Columbia, and here in London. These are not simply pro-Palestinian protesters calling for peace, for statehood -- which I get and respect.

These people pulling down posters everywhere are AGAINST supporting kidnapped hostages. They are handmaidens of Hamas.

Completely undermines the argument that they are pro-peace and only want Palestinian suffering to end.

They are anti-civilization.

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1712527878774997234


More "pro-Palestinians" pulling posters down.


Where are the posters for the hundreds of Palestinian children who went missing during Israel’s bombing of Gaza?

Is it antisemitic to care about them?


Put some up. I’d be surprised if Jews take them down.


You would? Jews complained of 4 year old Gazans’ art work . You don’t think they’d be triggered by seeing dismembered and burned Gazan children? With their limbs crushed to smithereens?

Or maybe that’s an exciting sight who knows?


I think you aged Jews confused with pro-Hamas folks who called the 10/7 attack "exhilarating" and celebrated in the streets.


Who called it exhilarating and celebrated in the streets? If I remember correct demonstrations didn’t even break out on Oct 7. They started after the Gaza war began a few days later and there was no dancing in the streets. Demonstrations got intensified by the hospital and Rafah crossing bombings and President Bidens remarks.


A professor at Cornell called the attacks exhilarating.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/16/russell-rickford-says-hamas-terror-was-exhilarating-exciting/


Pp. Yes and that nut was rightly fired.

Which Palestinian called Oct 7 exhilarating?

I see many Israelis on Tiktok calling the Gaza war fun and exciting and mocking the dead and starving kids of Gaza by posting their faucets of clean water and one person joked about dressing up as a Gaza kid for Halloween .

Did any Palestinian mock the Israeli victims ? You know -pretend to be a hostage , laugh at reports of beheadings or rape on social media? I haven’t seen any
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:the world will turn on isreal if they are not careful...there are plenty of people already on the fence about their approach. killings thousands of children is not right! regardless of how we got here. when you do this, you are just like the original attackers. tell me whats different? they kill innocent people and now you're killing innocent people?


No one in their right mind thinks Israel is an innocent victim in this crisis and Israel's attempt to browbeat people into picking a side is failing miserably. Dead babies are dead babies whether Israeli or Palestinian.

https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/speeches/2023-10-24/secretary-generals-remarks-the-security-council-the-middle-east%C2%A0


Or whether they’re German or British, right?


Why are you trying to re-prosecute WWII? You know it ended 78 years ago, right? And that the Geneva Conventions were established in large part to avoid the civilian casualties and atrocities that occurred then? Yes, I expect Israel to behave better than blitzing civilians. We all agree that it was horrible in WWII and it's horrible now. And also legally a war crime now.


I’m pointing it out in response to posters saying Israel is like the Nazis and trying to excuse what the Allies did.

Every state commits war crimes. Every single one. Hamas has committed them too.

So criticize Israel all you want, but at least be honest about it.

No you're not. You're not being honest either. So let's be honest, Hamas is not a state and this is not a war. This is a police action by a state against its protectorate territory.

If you really want a parallel to the distant past then it is most similar to either the French in Algeria or the British in Mahdist Sudan.


So we’re back to “Israel is a colonizer.” Sigh.


No that is your projection. It's an uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state, that Israel is in charge of its supposed international borders, and that there is a massive technological difference between the weapons each side has.

But you're right it's much more like the British destruction of the Mahdists then the French in Algeria.


Palestine is recognized as a state by 139 countries and it has UN observer status. Sorry — you don’t get to act as though Palestine is devoid of agency.

The ICRC are also UN observers. I'm not saying that Palestinians are devoid of agency. Nevertheless it is unmistakenable, unquestionable, uncomfortable fact that Palestine is not a state and that Israel is its occupying power. That one simple yet inarguable fact is very important.


There are only two UN observer states: Palestine and Vatican City.

And for the millionth time: Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza.


Good lord. Yes.

Though I’m seeing the logic expressed elsewhere that because Isreal has illegal settlements int he West Bank, it is somehow occupying Gaza and responsible for Hamas? People have no idea what they are talking about.


They say that because Israel has had Gaza under a blockade since 2005 and they severely restrict the movement of people and goods in and out of Gaza. It’s de facto occultation.

You’re being very disingenuous here.


Right, because Israel has the same relationship with Hamas that we have with Canada? Are we back at this again? Free trade with a terrorist group is not a thing. Sucks to be a terrorist organization.


Hamas /= Palestine


Hamas was elected and controls Gaza. Do you not know this?


Even better, Jordan occupied the West Bank from 1948-1967 and never even considered setting up an independent Palestinian state. Then, in 1970-71, Jordan killed some 3,000 Palestinians associated with Arafat and exiled another 20,000.


Ooh I’ve got one! Egypt owned Gaza from 1948-1967 and never integrated it into Egypt with equal rights for Palestinians.
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Anonymous wrote:This is happening all over the world -- at NYU at Columbia, and here in London. These are not simply pro-Palestinian protesters calling for peace, for statehood -- which I get and respect.

These people pulling down posters everywhere are AGAINST supporting kidnapped hostages. They are handmaidens of Hamas.

Completely undermines the argument that they are pro-peace and only want Palestinian suffering to end.

They are anti-civilization.

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1712527878774997234


More "pro-Palestinians" pulling posters down.


Where are the posters for the hundreds of Palestinian children who went missing during Israel’s bombing of Gaza?

Is it antisemitic to care about them?


Put some up. I’d be surprised if Jews take them down.


You would? Jews complained of 4 year old Gazans’ art work . You don’t think they’d be triggered by seeing dismembered and burned Gazan children? With their limbs crushed to smithereens?

Or maybe that’s an exciting sight who knows?


I think you aged Jews confused with pro-Hamas folks who called the 10/7 attack "exhilarating" and celebrated in the streets.


Who called it exhilarating and celebrated in the streets? If I remember correct demonstrations didn’t even break out on Oct 7. They started after the Gaza war began a few days later and there was no dancing in the streets. Demonstrations got intensified by the hospital and Rafah crossing bombings and President Bidens remarks.


A professor at Cornell called the attacks exhilarating.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/16/russell-rickford-says-hamas-terror-was-exhilarating-exciting/


Pp. Yes and that nut was rightly fired.

Which Palestinian called Oct 7 exhilarating?

I see many Israelis on Tiktok calling the Gaza war fun and exciting and mocking the dead and starving kids of Gaza by posting their faucets of clean water and one person joked about dressing up as a Gaza kid for Halloween .

Did any Palestinian mock the Israeli victims ? You know -pretend to be a hostage , laugh at reports of beheadings or rape on social media? I haven’t seen any


1. We’re talking about Americans here. I could show you infinite numbers of horrid videos by Palestinians mocking Israelis.

2. Show me American Jews calling for the annihilation of Gaza at rallies.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe Israel didn’t know Oct 7 was near. The hostages remarks about balloons with fire being sent days prior as a warning /message seals it for me. Egyptians also claim they warned Israel.

At this point, I believe Israel and Hamas are collaborators working to control the Gaza Strip together and make money together . From time to time, Both don’t mind using their own public as human shields for wars . This only helps right wing Israel and right wing Hamas to hold on to power in their respective regions.


+1 This was a massive military failure by the IDF or they let it happen.


One thing you learn very quickly in the Middle East is a huge divide between public statements and actual facts. Everyone talks to each other. EVERYONE. Even sworn enemies. Everyone haggles. I guarantee you that even at this hour, Bibi's administration and Hamas are in daily contact. It may not be direct but they totally are. There is stuff going on there that you'll never know about.


+100
It stuck out to me that the hostages say Hamas spoke perfect Hebrew to them. Again, Hamas and Israel made strange bedfellows for years and worked together since the 80s. Israeli intel bosses themselves have been quoted as saying how smart and effective Hamas members are compared to the useless Palestinian Authority. Hamas has just as good of a PR arm as Israel does. They learned from the best. They both are probably still intertwined in Constant contact but IDF is probably given a stay away directive from
The tunnels so Hamas doesn’t take any more soldiers captive .
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Anonymous wrote:Re-posting with fixed link.

Israel bombed a Christian church that dates back to the 12th century, killing relatives of former MI rep Justin Amash.



They did not target the church itself.


Right, they targeted an adjacent building where Christians, including former rep. Amash's relatives, were sheltering, killing them. And they knew it would damage the historic church.


There was a Hamas command center next to the church. Would your recommendation be that Israel just leave the command center be?


Former rep. Amash's relatives were not members of Hamas. They didn't need to die. You're the king of false dilemmas.


I’m not sure you’re clear on what collateral damage is.


Collateral damage is warfare propaganda by countries that are not held accountable.


I guess Christian lives don't matter. They're just "collateral damage".


Terming something as collateral damage doesn’t mean their lives don’t matter.


They didn't matter enough to prevent the primary damage from taking place. So, ultimately, it does mean their lives don't matter. Everything and everyone else must take a backseat to Israel's blood revenge.


You do realize this happens in every war, right?


When it does, it's considered a war crime. And this was.


It’s actually not.

“ Collateral damage is an accepted consequence of warfare. The law of armed conflict (LOAC) permits soldiers to carry out attacks against military objectives with the knowledge that civilians will be killed, provided the attack is consistent with the requirements of the principle of proportionality.”

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/collateral-damage-innocent-bystanders-war/#:~:text=Collateral%20damage%20is%20an%20accepted,of%20the%20principle%20of%20proportionality.


The bombing could only be condsidered proportional if you think Christian lives don't matter. To everyone else, this was a war crime.


That’s not what proportionality means.


Actually, it is. And the fact that you can't state what proportionality means, and can only say something isn't so you can justify innocent civilian deaths, shows you don't know what proportionality means. Or, maybe you just don't care about Christian lives.


DP.

You're making things up. Here's the definition of proportionality (spoiler: it bears no relationship whatsoever to your point):

Rule 14. Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited.


Not makimg things up at all. What was the concrete and direct military advantage gained by bombing a church and killimg civilians taking shelter? Why couldn't Israel have attacked the command center with more precision? That bears a total relationship to my point. This was a war crime. To say otherwise is to say those Christian lives don't matter.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:This is happening all over the world -- at NYU at Columbia, and here in London. These are not simply pro-Palestinian protesters calling for peace, for statehood -- which I get and respect.

These people pulling down posters everywhere are AGAINST supporting kidnapped hostages. They are handmaidens of Hamas.

Completely undermines the argument that they are pro-peace and only want Palestinian suffering to end.

They are anti-civilization.

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1712527878774997234


More "pro-Palestinians" pulling posters down.


Where are the posters for the hundreds of Palestinian children who went missing during Israel’s bombing of Gaza?

Is it antisemitic to care about them?


Put some up. I’d be surprised if Jews take them down.


You would? Jews complained of 4 year old Gazans’ art work . You don’t think they’d be triggered by seeing dismembered and burned Gazan children? With their limbs crushed to smithereens?

Or maybe that’s an exciting sight who knows?


I think you aged Jews confused with pro-Hamas folks who called the 10/7 attack "exhilarating" and celebrated in the streets.


Who called it exhilarating and celebrated in the streets? If I remember correct demonstrations didn’t even break out on Oct 7. They started after the Gaza war began a few days later and there was no dancing in the streets. Demonstrations got intensified by the hospital and Rafah crossing bombings and President Bidens remarks.


A professor at Cornell called the attacks exhilarating.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/16/russell-rickford-says-hamas-terror-was-exhilarating-exciting/


Pp. Yes and that nut was rightly fired.

Which Palestinian called Oct 7 exhilarating?

I see many Israelis on Tiktok calling the Gaza war fun and exciting and mocking the dead and starving kids of Gaza by posting their faucets of clean water and one person joked about dressing up as a Gaza kid for Halloween .

Did any Palestinian mock the Israeli victims ? You know -pretend to be a hostage , laugh at reports of beheadings or rape on social media? I haven’t seen any


Are you serious here? There are so many examples. You must be deliberately trying not to see.

I have seen the despicable Israeli posts and the despicable Hamas posts. They are both there. If you don’t see them from one side only, you are deliberately averting your eyes. Some of them have made the news.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe Israel didn’t know Oct 7 was near. The hostages remarks about balloons with fire being sent days prior as a warning /message seals it for me. Egyptians also claim they warned Israel.

At this point, I believe Israel and Hamas are collaborators working to control the Gaza Strip together and make money together . From time to time, Both don’t mind using their own public as human shields for wars . This only helps right wing Israel and right wing Hamas to hold on to power in their respective regions.


+1 This was a massive military failure by the IDF or they let it happen.


One thing you learn very quickly in the Middle East is a huge divide between public statements and actual facts. Everyone talks to each other. EVERYONE. Even sworn enemies. Everyone haggles. I guarantee you that even at this hour, Bibi's administration and Hamas are in daily contact. It may not be direct but they totally are. There is stuff going on there that you'll never know about.


This is why I never understood why this stupid administration wanted to publicize Saudi Arabia/ Israel relations. We know they’ve been working together as far back as coordinating Yemeni Jew Aliyah to Israel back in the 50s and 60s. There’s no need to publicize it and rile up the people.

Iran and Saudi Arabia also always had back channels of communication despite their feud especially during the Iraq War- this was a regional issue they were mutually concerned about . Everyone works together for common interests.

Hamas and Israel were working together with Egypt at one point to kill off ISIS in the Sinai. Hamas did most of the work because they already were familiar with Isis’s habits from working with Hezbollah in Syria and Lebanon
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is happening all over the world -- at NYU at Columbia, and here in London. These are not simply pro-Palestinian protesters calling for peace, for statehood -- which I get and respect.

These people pulling down posters everywhere are AGAINST supporting kidnapped hostages. They are handmaidens of Hamas.

Completely undermines the argument that they are pro-peace and only want Palestinian suffering to end.

They are anti-civilization.

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1712527878774997234


More "pro-Palestinians" pulling posters down.


Where are the posters for the hundreds of Palestinian children who went missing during Israel’s bombing of Gaza?

Is it antisemitic to care about them?


Put some up. I’d be surprised if Jews take them down.


You would? Jews complained of 4 year old Gazans’ art work . You don’t think they’d be triggered by seeing dismembered and burned Gazan children? With their limbs crushed to smithereens?

Or maybe that’s an exciting sight who knows?


I think you aged Jews confused with pro-Hamas folks who called the 10/7 attack "exhilarating" and celebrated in the streets.


Who called it exhilarating and celebrated in the streets? If I remember correct demonstrations didn’t even break out on Oct 7. They started after the Gaza war began a few days later and there was no dancing in the streets. Demonstrations got intensified by the hospital and Rafah crossing bombings and President Bidens remarks.


A professor at Cornell called the attacks exhilarating.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/16/russell-rickford-says-hamas-terror-was-exhilarating-exciting/


Pp. Yes and that nut was rightly fired.

Which Palestinian called Oct 7 exhilarating?

I see many Israelis on Tiktok calling the Gaza war fun and exciting and mocking the dead and starving kids of Gaza by posting their faucets of clean water and one person joked about dressing up as a Gaza kid for Halloween .

Did any Palestinian mock the Israeli victims ? You know -pretend to be a hostage , laugh at reports of beheadings or rape on social media? I haven’t seen any


Are you serious here? There are so many examples. You must be deliberately trying not to see.

I have seen the despicable Israeli posts and the despicable Hamas posts. They are both there. If you don’t see them from one side only, you are deliberately averting your eyes. Some of them have made the news.


Where are the despicable posts or actions from the Palestinians? Did Palestinians in the West Bank dance in the streets as the settlers do when Israelis died on Oct 7?
Anonymous
Meanwhile Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s son, Yair, is EXEMPT from his father’s military draft and will continue to vacation in Miami Beach.
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