s/o this brutal admissions year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncertainty is worse this year because of the heavy use of waitlists. We're going to have to wait through the summer for this all to play out. Even then many DCs will end up at safety schools.

It will be even worse next year. Maybe the waitlists and chaos will be lessened if the colleges somehow manage to adjust their yield calculations, but I doubt it. The same factors that gave rise to the chaos and uncertainty will be joined by another factor: the inconsistent application of lockdowns and virtual learning meant that some schools and some parts of the US had more opportunities for classes, sports and ECAs which the kids in this area didn't. That is yet another disadvantage that the class of 2022 will have to deal with.

Why would it be worse for class of 2022? Things should be much better by then.

Applications for 2022 are due in October. What will be so much better by then? They will have spent 3 out of the 6 semesters that count for ED under COVID conditions (and two of non Covid semesters were Freshman year, which is awful for a lot of kids). Huge numbers of them didn't take the PSAT, most have not yet been able to take the SAT, in trying to figure out where to apply they look to the two years before them and see unprecedented admits from WL for 2020, and a total mess from 2021, so they cannot predict what will happen for them. They have not been able to visit schools, so they will be applying ED blind. Those with some ability to visit schools in the Fall might see the schools they apply RD before they apply, but mostly it will be the same blind application process as 2021. Basically, they have very little idea how to gauge safety and match, and for a lot of kids, the picture they will present to the schools is far from their best or who they would have been but for COVID, while others will present a rosy picture that may not match their actual abilities, while others managed to stay on track or weren't affected by COVID much at all -- but admissions won't be able to really tell who is who -- and neither can their teachers or counselors, who really have only known them in COVID times.

+1000

It's even worse than what PP has described, which describes only the situation in the DMV area.

Remember that a large portion of America's schools didn't close down at all, and that some privates also maintained higher levels of EC and sports activities. For example, there were widely reported instances of CA recruited athletes who transferred to GA or FL to play their sports. These kids are going to have stronger looking applications; the colleges will say that they will adjust for these conditions, but I doubt that they will do so properly.

The class of 2022 will thus be affected by the uneven operations of schools this year.

We live in the South, and my 2022 grad DC’s Junior year has been almost normal. They’ve been full time in person all year — a few EC’s have been limited somewhat, but they’ve all been active and sports teams have played a normal schedule.

Thatt's the point -- your kid is the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are looking at this from a purely financial perspective. My kid is getting pushed to get the best GPA and test scores solely because we can't afford private colleges without a lot of merit aid, and there aren't a lot of public colleges in-state that my kid is interested in attending.

The pressure is much worse this year, and I feel really badly about it, but that's the way it is. My kid would be perfectly happy at a SLAC ranked 50-80, but we can't afford any SLAC because of the price tag.

DD has been doing a lot of test prep and feels very stressed about her grades. I am not happy with this situation, but I don't see any alternative. DD doesn't want to go to CC, but if she doesn't get into our in-state options, that's where she's going without a LOT of merit aid from private SLACS.

Simple - get the Princeton Review Guide to the Best 386 Colleges (out of over 3,000, mind you) and you will find lots of merit from about number 80 on down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a high stat, Indian-American, STEM kid, with pretty good ECs, good social skills, and good work ethics. He will be dinged at the top school for being Indian-American, but he will nonetheless get into some good school in a eng/cs major. His hard work is not to get into a t20 school, though he will certainly apply to these top schools, but rather to be able to excel and enjoy the major he chooses. That the barrier to entry is high in these STEM majors puts merit at the forefront rather than race, legacy and nepotism.

Just like education and learning is not for the purpose of getting into T20, a career is also not just to make money. Hopefully, they will put their family first and provide security and support to their spouse and children.

In the end, you come out ahead not because you got in to a top college because of some kind of BS criteria, but because of your own merit. Similarly, what is the use of a high flying career that you have because of your connections if you have a broken family and children who have messed up their lives??

Hopefully, the fact that we are middle class but can fund our child's entire education and give them a leg up in life because of our frugality...will be more useful to them than anything else.

Bravo. I completely agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncertainty is worse this year because of the heavy use of waitlists. We're going to have to wait through the summer for this all to play out. Even then many DCs will end up at safety schools.

It will be even worse next year. Maybe the waitlists and chaos will be lessened if the colleges somehow manage to adjust their yield calculations, but I doubt it. The same factors that gave rise to the chaos and uncertainty will be joined by another factor: the inconsistent application of lockdowns and virtual learning meant that some schools and some parts of the US had more opportunities for classes, sports and ECAs which the kids in this area didn't. That is yet another disadvantage that the class of 2022 will have to deal with.

Why would it be worse for class of 2022? Things should be much better by then.

NP. Still test optional, more semesters of covid grades (half of sophomore year and all of junior year), interrupted/halted ECs. I have a senior, and it's a nutty year, but I do think juniors can expect something similar for their admission season.

+1. I have a junior and I am already concerned about next year. Test optional is not a benefit to my DC, along with the almost halted ECs. It's going to be tough all the way around and - I admit it - I'm already thinking about connections to lean on.

For my senior, the hardest part was the inertia early in the process, from being home so much, plus the lack of visits. The thinking process was in slow mode, so he was unprepared to apply ED, which was a missed opportunity, we are full pay. The RD round has been stressful and now the waitlists. Maybe the waitlist will work out thanks to full pay, but if we had known last fall that he'd have been interested in this big reach where he's on the waitlist, I definitely would have had him apply ED1. It was a last minute addition to the list in early January. Hindsight is 20/20.... especially now that other schools were eliminated via denials.

I could see many kids fall into this “inertia” category. One of the unfortunate effects of this pandemic. Could happen to anyone. Best of luck PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Junior will be applying EA/ED to colleges the whole of Oct and Nov.

In the next 6 months, there are only few strategic things he can do to make up for the impact on ECs mostly due to pandemic. From middle school onwards, he has worked hard for course rigor, GPA, SAT, APs, various clubs, service projects, ECs, building relationship with teachers and counselors. Now he needs to just keep up with maintaining some of this stuff, an internship or two, reach out to schools, and then get cracking on his essays. We plan to send out 8 applications for EA/ED. And then 8 more.

Rest...I am leaving in the hands of fate. There is nothing much more that we can do. Brutal or not, fair or not - we just have to make the best of whatever happens. Do your best, then accept what happens and carry on. Learn to adapt to life's small and big disappointments and move forward.

Be sure to apply to some true safeties. I had to force my son to do so and he is at one of them now, hoping to transfer out after another year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the elite schools like HPYSM, do they really have the best people? If they are taking mostly athletes, legacy, first gen and URM, are they really getting the TOP students?

Not meant to be a snarky question.

Also, those top students are going somewhere. Do you think there will emerge a middle of the road college that will eventually become elite as a result of getting these top students?

No idea, but I think the opportunity for elite 'honors colleges" within some schools you might otherwise pass up, have been a thing and may become more so in the future.

X1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Junior will be applying EA/ED to colleges the whole of Oct and Nov.

In the next 6 months, there are only few strategic things he can do to make up for the impact on ECs mostly due to pandemic. From middle school onwards, he has worked hard for course rigor, GPA, SAT, APs, various clubs, service projects, ECs, building relationship with teachers and counselors. Now he needs to just keep up with maintaining some of this stuff, an internship or two, reach out to schools, and then get cracking on his essays. We plan to send out 8 applications for EA/ED. And then 8 more.

Rest...I am leaving in the hands of fate. There is nothing much more that we can do. Brutal or not, fair or not - we just have to make the best of whatever happens. Do your best, then accept what happens and carry on. Learn to adapt to life's small and big disappointments and move forward.

Be sure to apply to some true safeties. I had to force my son to do so and he is at one of them now, hoping to transfer out after another year.

Exactly. Talk about adapting. There are always options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncertainty is worse this year because of the heavy use of waitlists. We're going to have to wait through the summer for this all to play out. Even then many DCs will end up at safety schools.

It will be even worse next year. Maybe the waitlists and chaos will be lessened if the colleges somehow manage to adjust their yield calculations, but I doubt it. The same factors that gave rise to the chaos and uncertainty will be joined by another factor: the inconsistent application of lockdowns and virtual learning meant that some schools and some parts of the US had more opportunities for classes, sports and ECAs which the kids in this area didn't. That is yet another disadvantage that the class of 2022 will have to deal with.

Why would it be worse for class of 2022? Things should be much better by then.

Applications for 2022 are due in October. What will be so much better by then? They will have spent 3 out of the 6 semesters that count for ED under COVID conditions (and two of non Covid semesters were Freshman year, which is awful for a lot of kids). Huge numbers of them didn't take the PSAT, most have not yet been able to take the SAT, in trying to figure out where to apply they look to the two years before them and see unprecedented admits from WL for 2020, and a total mess from 2021, so they cannot predict what will happen for them. They have not been able to visit schools, so they will be applying ED blind. Those with some ability to visit schools in the Fall might see the schools they apply RD before they apply, but mostly it will be the same blind application process as 2021. Basically, they have very little idea how to gauge safety and match, and for a lot of kids, the picture they will present to the schools is far from their best or who they would have been but for COVID, while others will present a rosy picture that may not match their actual abilities, while others managed to stay on track or weren't affected by COVID much at all -- but admissions won't be able to really tell who is who -- and neither can their teachers or counselors, who really have only known them in COVID times.

+1000

It's even worse than what PP has described, which describes only the situation in the DMV area.

Remember that a large portion of America's schools didn't close down at all, and that some privates also maintained higher levels of EC and sports activities. For example, there were widely reported instances of CA recruited athletes who transferred to GA or FL to play their sports. These kids are going to have stronger looking applications; the colleges will say that they will adjust for these conditions, but I doubt that they will do so properly.

The class of 2022 will thus be affected by the uneven operations of schools this year.

We live in the South, and my 2022 grad DC’s Junior year has been almost normal. They’ve been full time in person all year — a few EC’s have been limited somewhat, but they’ve all been active and sports teams have played a normal schedule.

Thatt's the point -- your kid is the bolded.

Yes. I was providing an example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

They can look up your address on google maps and make a pretty good guess.

Or, they can look at the checkbox on the common app, which is a lot less work. Assuming they are need-aware.

Need blind schools don't do either.

Need blind schools aren’t need blind for the wait list. Wait lists are ^^^^ this year. Coincidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

They can look up your address on google maps and make a pretty good guess.

Or, they can look at the checkbox on the common app, which is a lot less work. Assuming they are need-aware.

Need blind schools don't do either.

Need blind schools aren’t need blind for the wait list. Wait lists are ^^^^ this year. Coincidence?

All need blind schools aren't need blind for the waitlist? FALSE! Most need blind schools ARE need blind for the waitlist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission

Stop the misinformation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

They can look up your address on google maps and make a pretty good guess.

Or, they can look at the checkbox on the common app, which is a lot less work. Assuming they are need-aware.

Need blind schools don't do either.

Need blind schools aren’t need blind for the wait list. Wait lists are ^^^^ this year. Coincidence?

All need blind schools aren't need blind for the waitlist? FALSE! Most need blind schools ARE need blind for the waitlist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission

Stop the misinformation.

Many (most?) schools are not need blind for the waitlist, even if it doesn’t say so specifically in their policy. It happens as a practical matter, because the scholarship $$ is gone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/06/04/how-college-waitlists-work-against-low-income-students/?sh=59db72d42277

But colleges don’t only use the waitlist to ensure they enroll an exact number of students; often, they help keep the school within their financial aid budget. In 2008, Reed, a small liberal arts college in Oregon, considered financial need in the first round of admissions. But when it turned to the waitlist, it only accepted students that were able to pay.

For students on the waitlist at a selective college, it’s almost guaranteed that financial need is being taken into account. While universities with large endowments are an exception, colleges become more aware of student’s financial need as they begin narrowing down their incoming class. Karen Crowley, a former admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania, admitted rules can change even at need-blind schools when it comes to the waitlist. “It’s not an official practice,” she says, “but admissions officers are human.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dirty-secrets-of-college-waitlists

“Let schools know you can pay “It never hurts to remind schools know you will be a full-paying student, especially this year. The rules even change at need-blind schools when it comes to the waitlist. It’s not an official practice, but admissions officers are human. They know endowments are down and cost-cutting is essential. If a full-paying student says he’ll definitely come, letting him in can be a relief.” — Karen Crowley, consultant for College Coach, a national education-consulting firm, and former admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania.”

The Georgia Tech AD says not to expect financial aid off the wait list.

“Don’t expect to come off the waitlist, and don’t expect much financial aid if you do. In some cases, you will be pleasantly surprised on one or both counts. But set your expectations based on fiscal reality and statistics.”



This article is paywalled, but I recall that there was a reference to a lack of financial aid for wait lists in this article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/expect-college-wait-lists-to-be-obnoxiously-long-this-year-11615377600

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

They can look up your address on google maps and make a pretty good guess.

Or, they can look at the checkbox on the common app, which is a lot less work. Assuming they are need-aware.

Need blind schools don't do either.

Need blind schools aren’t need blind for the wait list. Wait lists are ^^^^ this year. Coincidence?

All need blind schools aren't need blind for the waitlist? FALSE! Most need blind schools ARE need blind for the waitlist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission

Stop the misinformation.

Many (most?) schools are not need blind for the waitlist, even if it doesn’t say so specifically in their policy. It happens as a practical matter, because the scholarship $$ is gone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/06/04/how-college-waitlists-work-against-low-income-students/?sh=59db72d42277

But colleges don’t only use the waitlist to ensure they enroll an exact number of students; often, they help keep the school within their financial aid budget. In 2008, Reed, a small liberal arts college in Oregon, considered financial need in the first round of admissions. But when it turned to the waitlist, it only accepted students that were able to pay.

For students on the waitlist at a selective college, it’s almost guaranteed that financial need is being taken into account. While universities with large endowments are an exception, colleges become more aware of student’s financial need as they begin narrowing down their incoming class. Karen Crowley, a former admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania, admitted rules can change even at need-blind schools when it comes to the waitlist. “It’s not an official practice,” she says, “but admissions officers are human.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dirty-secrets-of-college-waitlists

“Let schools know you can pay “It never hurts to remind schools know you will be a full-paying student, especially this year. The rules even change at need-blind schools when it comes to the waitlist. It’s not an official practice, but admissions officers are human. They know endowments are down and cost-cutting is essential. If a full-paying student says he’ll definitely come, letting him in can be a relief.” — Karen Crowley, consultant for College Coach, a national education-consulting firm, and former admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania.”

The Georgia Tech AD says not to expect financial aid off the wait list.

“Don’t expect to come off the waitlist, and don’t expect much financial aid if you do. In some cases, you will be pleasantly surprised on one or both counts. But set your expectations based on fiscal reality and statistics.”



This article is paywalled, but I recall that there was a reference to a lack of financial aid for wait lists in this article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/expect-college-wait-lists-to-be-obnoxiously-long-this-year-11615377600

Link to the GA Tech blog: https://sites.gatech.edu/admission-blog/2021/02/25/predicting-yield-in-2021-everyone-shorts-it/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do schools know whether you’re full pay or not? I thought financial information went to a different office/area and that adcoms weren’t privy to this info?

They can look up your address on google maps and make a pretty good guess.

Or, they can look at the checkbox on the common app, which is a lot less work. Assuming they are need-aware.

Need blind schools don't do either.

Need blind schools aren’t need blind for the wait list. Wait lists are ^^^^ this year. Coincidence?

All need blind schools aren't need blind for the waitlist? FALSE! Most need blind schools ARE need blind for the waitlist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission

Stop the misinformation.

Many (most?) schools are not need blind for the waitlist, even if it doesn’t say so specifically in their policy. It happens as a practical matter, because the scholarship $$ is gone.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/06/04/how-college-waitlists-work-against-low-income-students/?sh=59db72d42277

But colleges don’t only use the waitlist to ensure they enroll an exact number of students; often, they help keep the school within their financial aid budget. In 2008, Reed, a small liberal arts college in Oregon, considered financial need in the first round of admissions. But when it turned to the waitlist, it only accepted students that were able to pay.

For students on the waitlist at a selective college, it’s almost guaranteed that financial need is being taken into account. While universities with large endowments are an exception, colleges become more aware of student’s financial need as they begin narrowing down their incoming class. Karen Crowley, a former admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania, admitted rules can change even at need-blind schools when it comes to the waitlist. “It’s not an official practice,” she says, “but admissions officers are human.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dirty-secrets-of-college-waitlists

“Let schools know you can pay “It never hurts to remind schools know you will be a full-paying student, especially this year. The rules even change at need-blind schools when it comes to the waitlist. It’s not an official practice, but admissions officers are human. They know endowments are down and cost-cutting is essential. If a full-paying student says he’ll definitely come, letting him in can be a relief.” — Karen Crowley, consultant for College Coach, a national education-consulting firm, and former admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania.”

The Georgia Tech AD says not to expect financial aid off the wait list.

“Don’t expect to come off the waitlist, and don’t expect much financial aid if you do. In some cases, you will be pleasantly surprised on one or both counts. But set your expectations based on fiscal reality and statistics.”



This article is paywalled, but I recall that there was a reference to a lack of financial aid for wait lists in this article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/expect-college-wait-lists-to-be-obnoxiously-long-this-year-11615377600

Last year’s kids coming off the waitlist tended to favor full pay. Financial aid is a limited resource at most school, even more so in the current environment. The situation has changed pretty dramatically for the past two admission years compared to the pre-covid world.

[Anonymous]

Most schools are not need blind, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most schools are not need blind, period.

Sorry, what I meant was: Most schools are not need blind AND guaranteed to meet full demonstrated need (as determined by the college.)