s/o this brutal admissions year

[Anonymous]

Guess you don't really know who is getting into some of these colleges then.

Don't forget those who pay 10m to get their grossly unqualified kids in. They're probably the same ones who are defending the admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the elite schools like HPYSM, do they really have the best people? If they are taking mostly athletes, legacy, first gen and URM, are they really getting the TOP students?

Not meant to be a snarky question.

Also, those top students are going somewhere. Do you think there will emerge a middle of the road college that will eventually become elite as a result of getting these top students?

It’s not mutually exclusive. Just because you’re an athlete does not mean you’re not a great student. And especially just because you’re URM doesn’t mean you also don’t take the most challenging classes or get great grades. People who assume otherwise and just think you can get in on test scores and GPA alone don’t realize that there is more than colleges want. After awhile anybody can prep for high test scores. And GPA really just varies from school to school. Top colleges want kids who will be successful in life and just getting good grades does not guarantee anything.

Why kids with parents not going to colleges will be successful in life? What's the evidence? If you say this is to social engineer -- OK, at least you are telling the true. But how could first gen kids be more successful in life than those having good grades?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guess you don't really know who is getting into some of these colleges then.

Don't forget those who pay 10m to get their grossly unqualified kids in. They're probably the same ones who are defending the admissions process.

And how many of those development admits do you think there are?

And why do you think any change in admissions policies would affect development admits?

And why do you think those that can afford to have development admit children would be spending their time arguing on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

My kids have never understood that the purpose of hard work is to get into a T30 school. It's for their own edification and opportunities, regardless of where they go to college (or work, or whatever).

[Anonymous]

Eh, do we really want our kids to absorb the message that the purpose of life is to work as hard as possible and get into the best college possible? That is joyless and not the life I want my kids to have. They can have a good life without conducting original scientific research at 16 or being the "best" or "top."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the elite schools like HPYSM, do they really have the best people? If they are taking mostly athletes, legacy, first gen and URM, are they really getting the TOP students?

Not meant to be a snarky question.

Also, those top students are going somewhere. Do you think there will emerge a middle of the road college that will eventually become elite as a result of getting these top students?

It’s not mutually exclusive. Just because you’re an athlete does not mean you’re not a great student. And especially just because you’re URM doesn’t mean you also don’t take the most challenging classes or get great grades. People who assume otherwise and just think you can get in on test scores and GPA alone don’t realize that there is more than colleges want. After awhile anybody can prep for high test scores. And GPA really just varies from school to school. Top colleges want kids who will be successful in life and just getting good grades does not guarantee anything.

+2 I wouldn’t assume they are poor students. The kids I know this year that are going to top schools to play sports are also top students. Schools include Stanford, Brown, JHU, UChicago, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eh, do we really want our kids to absorb the message that the purpose of life is to work as hard as possible and get into the best college possible? That is joyless and not the life I want my kids to have. They can have a good life without conducting original scientific research at 16 or being the "best" or "top."

Younger Gen X here. Judging by the millennials I know personally and the deluge of articles I’ve read about the student loan “crisis,” that’s definitely been the message their generation seemed to absorb. Whether their parents/teachers meant them to or not.

And now a lot of them are disappointed by how their careers have turned out (not as well paying or fulfilling as they thought they’d be).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of the elite schools like HPYSM, do they really have the best people? If they are taking mostly athletes, legacy, first gen and URM, are they really getting the TOP students?

Not meant to be a snarky question.

Also, those top students are going somewhere. Do you think there will emerge a middle of the road college that will eventually become elite as a result of getting these top students?

It’s not mutually exclusive. Just because you’re an athlete does not mean you’re not a great student. And especially just because you’re URM doesn’t mean you also don’t take the most challenging classes or get great grades. People who assume otherwise and just think you can get in on test scores and GPA alone don’t realize that there is more than colleges want. After awhile anybody can prep for high test scores. And GPA really just varies from school to school. Top colleges want kids who will be successful in life and just getting good grades does not guarantee anything.

+2 I wouldn’t assume they are poor students. The kids I know this year that are going to top schools to play sports are also top students. Schools include Stanford, Brown, JHU, UChicago, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth.

Nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has it made anyone else reconsider how their teen is approaching high school and academics?

If busting your ass studying to get a 4.0 and > 1500 SAT isn't enough to get you into T30 (T50??) schools anymore, are you going to encourage your child to relax more, take it easy, and enjoy the social aspects of high school more? Still take it seriously but not AS seriously as maybe kids in the past did. Are you going to do what you can to take the pressure off, I guess I am asking.

I've been reading all the threads on here about disappointed kids and I get it. I remember what that was like but, twenty years ago, we were rewarded for that hard work by getting into top colleges. That seems to not be happening anymore. And from my experience in the workforce, I see that you can go to a lot of different schools and still end up in the same desirable place. I work with a guy who went to Harvard and a guy who went to a tiny no name school in upstate NY. They make the same money.

Just food for thought. Curious about what other high school parents think.

What school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eh, do we really want our kids to absorb the message that the purpose of life is to work as hard as possible and get into the best college possible? That is joyless and not the life I want my kids to have. They can have a good life without conducting original scientific research at 16 or being the "best" or "top."

This.
The problem is not kids doing the work.
The problem is setting expectation so that they think their life is over if they don't get into the "top" school (however you define it).
The problem is overprepping for SATs and making your kids take them again if they got a really good score but not a "great" score.
The problem is pushing kids into activities they don't want to do "for college applications" and leaving them no time to pursue their own hobbies or interests
The problem is telling them that a B is not good enough, even if it is the best they can do in a particular class.
The problem is pushing our kids to become the person we think they should be (grades, college, career, etc) instead of letting them make their own choices and own them.

It has been more than 10 years since "Race to Nowhere" came out, but things have not changed much if we are still having the same conversations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has it made anyone else reconsider how their teen is approaching high school and academics?

If busting your ass studying to get a 4.0 and > 1500 SAT isn't enough to get you into T30 (T50??) schools anymore, are you going to encourage your child to relax more, take it easy, and enjoy the social aspects of high school more? Still take it seriously but not AS seriously as maybe kids in the past did. Are you going to do what you can to take the pressure off, I guess I am asking.

I've been reading all the threads on here about disappointed kids and I get it. I remember what that was like but, twenty years ago, we were rewarded for that hard work by getting into top colleges. That seems to not be happening anymore. And from my experience in the workforce, I see that you can go to a lot of different schools and still end up in the same desirable place. I work with a guy who went to Harvard and a guy who went to a tiny no name school in upstate NY. They make the same money.

Just food for thought. Curious about what other high school parents think.

I have a child entering high school. I didn't think I would reconsider, but I am. DC has a choice between a high pressure program and other good, but less pressure onel. I always thought that if DC was admitted to the high pressure program that is where they would go. Now, it's not as clear. I know that DC is motivated and will work hard no matter what. I'm leaning towards taking the pressure off and will be OK if DC picks the program that some may consider not as good.

I too work with a Harvard grad. We have the same title/pay. I went to a state school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, do we really want our kids to absorb the message that the purpose of life is to work as hard as possible and get into the best college possible? That is joyless and not the life I want my kids to have. They can have a good life without conducting original scientific research at 16 or being the "best" or "top."

Younger Gen X here. Judging by the millennials I know personally and the deluge of articles I’ve read about the student loan “crisis,” that’s definitely been the message their generation seemed to absorb. Whether their parents/teachers meant them to or not.

And now a lot of them are disappointed by how their careers have turned out (not as well paying or fulfilling as they thought they’d be).

Younger Gen X here too, and I agree with the PP you're quoting. I have a middle schooler, but looking at this board has honestly convinced me not to drive my kid to work as hard as possible to get into the best college possible. I want her to work hard, but within moderation, and I want her to enjoy life. I want her to know that most people don't find personal fulfillment from their careers. If she does, great! But most people have to seek fulfillment elsewhere.

I was talking with some coworkers the other day, and apparently some of us went to state colleges, some went to HYP, some went to Emory-level colleges and oh hey, we all ended up in the same place. It really doesn't matter as much as we make it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has it made anyone else reconsider how their teen is approaching high school and academics?

If busting your ass studying to get a 4.0 and > 1500 SAT isn't enough to get you into T30 (T50??) schools anymore, are you going to encourage your child to relax more, take it easy, and enjoy the social aspects of high school more? Still take it seriously but not AS seriously as maybe kids in the past did. Are you going to do what you can to take the pressure off, I guess I am asking.

I've been reading all the threads on here about disappointed kids and I get it. I remember what that was like but, twenty years ago, we were rewarded for that hard work by getting into top colleges. That seems to not be happening anymore. And from my experience in the workforce, I see that you can go to a lot of different schools and still end up in the same desirable place. I work with a guy who went to Harvard and a guy who went to a tiny no name school in upstate NY. They make the same money.

Just food for thought. Curious about what other high school parents think.

That's what happens when you view name brands as a proxy for quality. They are not.

There are highly-capable, super-smart, high performers everywhere. It's not about the name of the school - it's about the person and what s/he brings to the table. This is precisely the message we have given our kids from the beginning - work hard because hard work is its own reward, and because that's what you need to do to reach your goals. Full stop.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

[Anonymous]

If we were full pay, sure, I’d feel that way.

I need my kids to get into a good state school, preferably the flagship, because we cannot afford out of state tuition but with a household income of 150k I am not sure we will get much financial aid if any from privates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, do we really want our kids to absorb the message that the purpose of life is to work as hard as possible and get into the best college possible? That is joyless and not the life I want my kids to have. They can have a good life without conducting original scientific research at 16 or being the "best" or "top."

Younger Gen X here. Judging by the millennials I know personally and the deluge of articles I’ve read about the student loan “crisis,” that’s definitely been the message their generation seemed to absorb. Whether their parents/teachers meant them to or not.

And now a lot of them are disappointed by how their careers have turned out (not as well paying or fulfilling as they thought they’d be).

Younger Gen X here too, and I agree with the PP you're quoting. I have a middle schooler, but looking at this board has honestly convinced me not to drive my kid to work as hard as possible to get into the best college possible. I want her to work hard, but within moderation, and I want her to enjoy life. I want her to know that most people don't find personal fulfillment from their careers. If she does, great! But most people have to seek fulfillment elsewhere.

I was talking with some coworkers the other day, and apparently some of us went to state colleges, some went to HYP, some went to Emory-level colleges and oh hey, we all ended up in the same place. It really doesn't matter as much as we make it.

This has been my experience, too. In the end, it doesn’t matter where you went to school, what matters is what you’ve done with your degree. Personally, I’m trying to teach my kids to work smart, not hard.