Would you support a hard shutdown option for two to four weeks to crush the virus?

[Anonymous]

Watching the Handmaid's Tale these past several years, I would muse that it was a really interesting story but clearly nothing anywhere close to that level of authoritarianism could happen in America. And to top it off, an actual rejection of the idea of America itself.

Of course that could never happen. I have come to see there is much more support for "good" authoritarianism under the right circumstances than I would have ever realized before. And more opposition out there to what America represents than I would have imagined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly this. We can't keep shutting everything down for weeks and months at a time over and over again. It's not working. So, those at high risk, stay home, use good hygiene, especially if you have family members who are circulating, and take care of your health. Guaranteed, at least 30% of the population has already had the virus. It is mostly harmless. I know, cue all the posters saying, "but, damaged lungs, long-term effects..."

If we listened to science and the examples of other countries overseas, we wouldn't have to keep doing things over and over again. It is possible to get spread under control enough to use test-quarantine-contact trace to manage small outbreaks. That's what they are doing in Europe now. Every once in a while there's a larger outbreak of 100-200 cases, and an area shut down of 2 weeks is used just for that one city. But otherwise, they are all wearing masks in many countries, but they are able to go more about their lives now -- and even travel for recreation from country to country.

It should be instructive to you that we in the US are not allowed to travel to Europe or even Canada now. They think we are crazy for letting this virus that has caused so much damage spread till it is impossible to control; till we are running our of tests and PPE again; till all our schools need to be closed.

I just wish we could get to a point where social distancing isn't a thing anymore. Humans are social animals. We can't stay six feet apart forever. We need to have fun, meet each other, date, marry, hold celebrations and festivals, that's just part of being a human. So I would rather have a three month hardcore lockdown if it can get us back to this sooner, instead of years upon years of openings and closings with the constant expectation of being six feet apart.

Let me explain. Right now, we don't have to be social animals. We can't obey the simple rule of wearing a mask and you are talking about having festivals if we do a hard lock down? Beating this virus and going back to life as it was is a marathon. It might take until we have a mass vaccination, or it might mutate and we will need yearly vaccinations. We can hope for normalcy as we knew it before, or we can get adjusted to a little bit different reality for years to come. We don't know what the future holds. We just like to think we do. Part of being a human, is that we are adaptable. Those that adapt survive. We are witnessing this right now. Might be that a new human is not that social for a while.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
JUST STOP


STOP SAYING THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

?
We got used to metal detectors and screenings after 9-11. We got used to lockdown drills after the NRA made right-wingers paranoid about losing their guns. We got used to losing healthcare, pensions, clean air and clean food. Now we have to get used to the consequences of gutting our public health system and social supports.

Uh yeah, metal detectors were at airports long before 9/11, not to mention this is pretty different from post 9/11 security measures. Yes the others on your list are issues, but please, not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly this. We can't keep shutting everything down for weeks and months at a time over and over again. It's not working. So, those at high risk, stay home, use good hygiene, especially if you have family members who are circulating, and take care of your health. Guaranteed, at least 30% of the population has already had the virus. It is mostly harmless. I know, cue all the posters saying, "but, damaged lungs, long-term effects..."

If we listened to science and the examples of other countries overseas, we wouldn't have to keep doing things over and over again. It is possible to get spread under control enough to use test-quarantine-contact trace to manage small outbreaks. That's what they are doing in Europe now. Every once in a while there's a larger outbreak of 100-200 cases, and an area shut down of 2 weeks is used just for that one city. But otherwise, they are all wearing masks in many countries, but they are able to go more about their lives now -- and even travel for recreation from country to country.

It should be instructive to you that we in the US are not allowed to travel to Europe or even Canada now. They think we are crazy for letting this virus that has caused so much damage spread till it is impossible to control; till we are running our of tests and PPE again; till all our schools need to be closed.

I just wish we could get to a point where social distancing isn't a thing anymore. Humans are social animals. We can't stay six feet apart forever. We need to have fun, meet each other, date, marry, hold celebrations and festivals, that's just part of being a human. So I would rather have a three month hardcore lockdown if it can get us back to this sooner, instead of years upon years of openings and closings with the constant expectation of being six feet apart.

Let me explain. Right now, we don't have to be social animals. We can't obey the simple rule of wearing a mask and you are talking about having festivals if we do a hard lock down? Beating this virus and going back to life as it was is a marathon. It might take until we have a mass vaccination, or it might mutate and we will need yearly vaccinations. We can hope for normalcy as we knew it before, or we can get adjusted to a little bit different reality for years to come. We don't know what the future holds. We just like to think we do. Part of being a human, is that we are adaptable. Those that adapt survive. We are witnessing this right now. Might be that a new human is not that social for a while.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
JUST STOP


STOP SAYING THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

?
We got used to metal detectors and screenings after 9-11. We got used to lockdown drills after the NRA made right-wingers paranoid about losing their guns. We got used to losing healthcare, pensions, clean air and clean food. Now we have to get used to the consequences of gutting our public health system and social supports.

Because maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying here but it sounds like what you are predicting here is a permanently socially isolated human species. Will people ever have sex again if they are not in live-in relationships as of March 2020? Will there ever be any semblance of joy, celebration, consoling someone with a hug, Thanksgiving dinners, holiday celebrations of any kind, the entire entertainment industry, international travel?
Again, Im not some weak snowflake demanding this happen on some arbitrary date in 2021. I am talking about EVER.
Because - being quite honest here, - If we are doomed to a world with no physical contact EVER with a person outside of our current household, then I don't want to live anymore.

nobody said forever, drama llama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watching the Handmaid's Tale these past several years, I would muse that it was a really interesting story but clearly nothing anywhere close to that level of authoritarianism could happen in America. And to top it off, an actual rejection of the idea of America itself.

Of course that could never happen. I have come to see there is much more support for "good" authoritarianism under the right circumstances than I would have ever realized before. And more opposition out there to what America represents than I would have imagined.

Quite disheartening really. you scare people enough they'll accept anything. Sad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly this. We can't keep shutting everything down for weeks and months at a time over and over again. It's not working. So, those at high risk, stay home, use good hygiene, especially if you have family members who are circulating, and take care of your health. Guaranteed, at least 30% of the population has already had the virus. It is mostly harmless. I know, cue all the posters saying, "but, damaged lungs, long-term effects..."

If we listened to science and the examples of other countries overseas, we wouldn't have to keep doing things over and over again. It is possible to get spread under control enough to use test-quarantine-contact trace to manage small outbreaks. That's what they are doing in Europe now. Every once in a while there's a larger outbreak of 100-200 cases, and an area shut down of 2 weeks is used just for that one city. But otherwise, they are all wearing masks in many countries, but they are able to go more about their lives now -- and even travel for recreation from country to country.

It should be instructive to you that we in the US are not allowed to travel to Europe or even Canada now. They think we are crazy for letting this virus that has caused so much damage spread till it is impossible to control; till we are running our of tests and PPE again; till all our schools need to be closed.

I just wish we could get to a point where social distancing isn't a thing anymore. Humans are social animals. We can't stay six feet apart forever. We need to have fun, meet each other, date, marry, hold celebrations and festivals, that's just part of being a human. So I would rather have a three month hardcore lockdown if it can get us back to this sooner, instead of years upon years of openings and closings with the constant expectation of being six feet apart.

Let me explain. Right now, we don't have to be social animals. We can't obey the simple rule of wearing a mask and you are talking about having festivals if we do a hard lock down? Beating this virus and going back to life as it was is a marathon. It might take until we have a mass vaccination, or it might mutate and we will need yearly vaccinations. We can hope for normalcy as we knew it before, or we can get adjusted to a little bit different reality for years to come. We don't know what the future holds. We just like to think we do. Part of being a human, is that we are adaptable. Those that adapt survive. We are witnessing this right now. Might be that a new human is not that social for a while.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
JUST STOP


STOP SAYING THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

?
We got used to metal detectors and screenings after 9-11. We got used to lockdown drills after the NRA made right-wingers paranoid about losing their guns. We got used to losing healthcare, pensions, clean air and clean food. Now we have to get used to the consequences of gutting our public health system and social supports.

Because maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying here but it sounds like what you are predicting here is a permanently socially isolated human species. Will people ever have sex again if they are not in live-in relationships as of March 2020? Will there ever be any semblance of joy, celebration, consoling someone with a hug, Thanksgiving dinners, holiday celebrations of any kind, the entire entertainment industry, international travel?
Again, Im not some weak snowflake demanding this happen on some arbitrary date in 2021. I am talking about EVER.
Because - being quite honest here, - If we are doomed to a world with no physical contact EVER with a person outside of our current household, then I don't want to live anymore.

Me neither. F that.

[Anonymous]

I literally can’t believe the ding dongs citing China. The govt there has the media on lockdown, so, yes, they can propagate any fantasy they want. This virus was circulating for months unchecked there...if you believe their death toll/infection numbers, you are honestly to stupid to function. Their “lockdown” was theater done to convince the rest of the world that they were controlling it. If their current numbers are true (pretty big if), it’s because the virus ripped through their country uncontrolled.

[Anonymous]

If we would have done a hard country wide shutdown several months ago, we wouldn't be in this predicament right now.

I feel like it is too late now, since the virus has been politicized and the antimaskers have bought in too much to back down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly this. We can't keep shutting everything down for weeks and months at a time over and over again. It's not working. So, those at high risk, stay home, use good hygiene, especially if you have family members who are circulating, and take care of your health. Guaranteed, at least 30% of the population has already had the virus. It is mostly harmless. I know, cue all the posters saying, "but, damaged lungs, long-term effects..."

If we listened to science and the examples of other countries overseas, we wouldn't have to keep doing things over and over again. It is possible to get spread under control enough to use test-quarantine-contact trace to manage small outbreaks. That's what they are doing in Europe now. Every once in a while there's a larger outbreak of 100-200 cases, and an area shut down of 2 weeks is used just for that one city. But otherwise, they are all wearing masks in many countries, but they are able to go more about their lives now -- and even travel for recreation from country to country.

It should be instructive to you that we in the US are not allowed to travel to Europe or even Canada now. They think we are crazy for letting this virus that has caused so much damage spread till it is impossible to control; till we are running our of tests and PPE again; till all our schools need to be closed.

I just wish we could get to a point where social distancing isn't a thing anymore. Humans are social animals. We can't stay six feet apart forever. We need to have fun, meet each other, date, marry, hold celebrations and festivals, that's just part of being a human. So I would rather have a three month hardcore lockdown if it can get us back to this sooner, instead of years upon years of openings and closings with the constant expectation of being six feet apart.

Let me explain. Right now, we don't have to be social animals. We can't obey the simple rule of wearing a mask and you are talking about having festivals if we do a hard lock down? Beating this virus and going back to life as it was is a marathon. It might take until we have a mass vaccination, or it might mutate and we will need yearly vaccinations. We can hope for normalcy as we knew it before, or we can get adjusted to a little bit different reality for years to come. We don't know what the future holds. We just like to think we do. Part of being a human, is that we are adaptable. Those that adapt survive. We are witnessing this right now. Might be that a new human is not that social for a while.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
JUST STOP


STOP SAYING THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

?
We got used to metal detectors and screenings after 9-11. We got used to lockdown drills after the NRA made right-wingers paranoid about losing their guns. We got used to losing healthcare, pensions, clean air and clean food. Now we have to get used to the consequences of gutting our public health system and social supports.

Because maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying here but it sounds like what you are predicting here is a permanently socially isolated human species. Will people ever have sex again if they are not in live-in relationships as of March 2020? Will there ever be any semblance of joy, celebration, consoling someone with a hug, Thanksgiving dinners, holiday celebrations of any kind, the entire entertainment industry, international travel?
Again, Im not some weak snowflake demanding this happen on some arbitrary date in 2021. I am talking about EVER.
Because - being quite honest here, - If we are doomed to a world with no physical contact EVER with a person outside of our current household, then I don't want to live anymore.

nobody said forever, drama llama

OK, if not "forever", then what is PP implying by new normal?

I've accepted and support these measures if they are intended to either stop the virus from spreading (I am the PP who supported a heavy lockdown with mass testing until every last solitary case is eliminated) and/or as a mitigation factor until there is a vaccine, provided that there is one (and I understand that there may need to be multiple vaccines updated yearly). What I cannot accept is that "life as we knew it in 2019 is over" unless it means maybe more virus testing for those who want to participate in the activities of before. This kind of thing I can deal with... which is more similar to the 9/11 metal detector situation. More testing methods, more personal hygiene, fine. But eliminating all fun and gatherings? No more travel forever as in no more new experiences, adventures, changes in the course of life, meeting new romantic partners, making new friends, seeing live music? Sorry but life without these simple joys is not life. I would rather die. And I am not a person on suicide watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I literally can’t believe the ding dongs citing China. The govt there has the media on lockdown, so, yes, they can propagate any fantasy they want. This virus was circulating for months unchecked there...if you believe their death toll/infection numbers, you are honestly to stupid to function. Their “lockdown” was theater done to convince the rest of the world that they were controlling it. If their current numbers are true (pretty big if), it’s because the virus ripped through their country uncontrolled.

Yea China lied. That's a given.

But how much did they lie about reported case? Cut in half? A third? A tenth?

They reported 85,000 cases. I'll give you a ten X multiplier, so 850,000 cases.

Guess what? That's still BELOW THE NUMBER OF CASES IN THE USA.

You can't put it all down to Chinese lies. They did more than we are doing here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we would have done a hard country wide shutdown several months ago, we wouldn't be in this predicament right now.

I feel like it is too late now, since the virus has been politicized and the antimaskers have bought in too much to back down.

No. The only way the virus wouldn't return with a reopening would be with extensive tracing and tracking of citizens. If you don't want the government tracking you and controlling your movements, then you need to accept the ~1% death rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, yes, yes

The trick is to REALLY do it, combined with rapid testing and tracing. Then when you have eruptions, they can be quickly contact traced and quarantined. That is the only way to beat this thing, short of a vaccine.

This. And this is why the first round of shelter-at-home orders didn't work. The government should have used the time to build an effective testing and tracing system -- invoking the DPA to procure testing supplies and PPE, working out the logistics for testing sites and labs to run the tests, staffing up testers and contract tracers, setting up quarantine hotels so people weren't quarantining at home, etc. But it didn't -- it threw the whole thing to the states (except for when it seized PPE and other medical equipment) and the result was the mess we're in now.

If we had done that, we could have brought the numbers down far enough that we could do what other countries are doing -- gradually opening up, and using testing and tracing to prevent new outbreaks, with targeted local/regional shutdowns as needed. It might never have spread outside of the big cities where it first entered the US. Instead, it's running nearly unchecked everywhere, with some places having mask mandates and others opening the damn bars. It's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I literally can’t believe the ding dongs citing China. The govt there has the media on lockdown, so, yes, they can propagate any fantasy they want. This virus was circulating for months unchecked there...if you believe their death toll/infection numbers, you are honestly to stupid to function. Their “lockdown” was theater done to convince the rest of the world that they were controlling it. If their current numbers are true (pretty big if), it’s because the virus ripped through their country uncontrolled.

Keep watching Fox News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly this. We can't keep shutting everything down for weeks and months at a time over and over again. It's not working. So, those at high risk, stay home, use good hygiene, especially if you have family members who are circulating, and take care of your health. Guaranteed, at least 30% of the population has already had the virus. It is mostly harmless. I know, cue all the posters saying, "but, damaged lungs, long-term effects..."

If we listened to science and the examples of other countries overseas, we wouldn't have to keep doing things over and over again. It is possible to get spread under control enough to use test-quarantine-contact trace to manage small outbreaks. That's what they are doing in Europe now. Every once in a while there's a larger outbreak of 100-200 cases, and an area shut down of 2 weeks is used just for that one city. But otherwise, they are all wearing masks in many countries, but they are able to go more about their lives now -- and even travel for recreation from country to country.

It should be instructive to you that we in the US are not allowed to travel to Europe or even Canada now. They think we are crazy for letting this virus that has caused so much damage spread till it is impossible to control; till we are running our of tests and PPE again; till all our schools need to be closed.

I just wish we could get to a point where social distancing isn't a thing anymore. Humans are social animals. We can't stay six feet apart forever. We need to have fun, meet each other, date, marry, hold celebrations and festivals, that's just part of being a human. So I would rather have a three month hardcore lockdown if it can get us back to this sooner, instead of years upon years of openings and closings with the constant expectation of being six feet apart.

Let me explain. Right now, we don't have to be social animals. We can't obey the simple rule of wearing a mask and you are talking about having festivals if we do a hard lock down? Beating this virus and going back to life as it was is a marathon. It might take until we have a mass vaccination, or it might mutate and we will need yearly vaccinations. We can hope for normalcy as we knew it before, or we can get adjusted to a little bit different reality for years to come. We don't know what the future holds. We just like to think we do. Part of being a human, is that we are adaptable. Those that adapt survive. We are witnessing this right now. Might be that a new human is not that social for a while.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
JUST STOP


STOP SAYING THIS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

?
We got used to metal detectors and screenings after 9-11. We got used to lockdown drills after the NRA made right-wingers paranoid about losing their guns. We got used to losing healthcare, pensions, clean air and clean food. Now we have to get used to the consequences of gutting our public health system and social supports.

Because maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying here but it sounds like what you are predicting here is a permanently socially isolated human species. Will people ever have sex again if they are not in live-in relationships as of March 2020? Will there ever be any semblance of joy, celebration, consoling someone with a hug, Thanksgiving dinners, holiday celebrations of any kind, the entire entertainment industry, international travel?
Again, Im not some weak snowflake demanding this happen on some arbitrary date in 2021. I am talking about EVER.
Because - being quite honest here, - If we are doomed to a world with no physical contact EVER with a person outside of our current household, then I don't want to live anymore.

nobody said forever, drama llama

But they said for years to come. I don’t think that will be necessary, but most people will not do that even if it was. Too much to ask and an overreaction to a virus with a low mortality rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean a real hard shutdown. No grocery store runs. No McDonalds. No Home Depot. Emergency workers only on the streets, police to nab and send home everyone else. Kind of like what they did in Italy and a few other places to crush the virus spread, not just 'flatten the curve'.

In the Post today there are some advocating a hard shutdown as one of three scenarios going forward, but I'm not sure they'd get the public support for that option.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/21/toll-covid-19-worsens-us-has-three-options/

Yes 2 weeks hard shutdown nationwide. That’s what we should have done all along. Everyone shut down right away at the same time.

[Anonymous]

God no. Nationwide mask mandate and close the bars. We can get through this without turning this country into an authoritarian hellhole.