Lactivists are just mean girls all grown up.

[Anonymous]

I’m so sorry this happened to your friend, OP. I believe the hospital post-party nurses and lactation consultants are very harsh when it comes to breastfeeding. A lot of hospital policies push exclusive nursing - not even just exclusive breastfeeding which can include pumping - at all costs. Some of their “training” materials have leaked onto the Internet on sites like Fed is Best Foundation and the Skeptical OB, and they are abhorrent.

At the same time, I’ve met with some out of hospital/private lactation consultants who were quite helpful. So if she wants to breastfeed I’d definitely look outside the hospital. Ask a local moms group for recommendations and emphasize that they need to be gentle and emphasize a “fed is best” mentality for a mom who has suffered previous losses. Huge hugs to you and your friend!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

But there are also plenty of lactation consultants--whose literal job it is to SUPPORT the WOMEN who want to breastfeed--who do behave this way.

I'm so sorry for your friend, OP. She did nothing wrong. Good for you and her husband for standing up for her.

Agree. I think part of the problem is that we are often so vulnerable right after birth, especially when it’s the first child. And we get slammed both ways. Poor maternal leave policies, so we feel pulled back to work, but at the same time, we’re expected to sacrifice our bodies and our mental health for our children, just because we are mothers. So-called “baby-friendly” hospitals have done away with nurseries, leaving women who may have just labored for hours or days, or had surgery, are expected to care for newborns alone. And on top of that, there are lactation consultants like the one that op’s friend encountered, pressuring everyone to breastfeed, even when it’s clearly not working for the mom or the baby.

Op, I get why you saw that as “mean girl” behavior, but in reality, I think probably the lactation consultant is assessed by how many moms are breastfeeding when they leave the hospital. She’s saying the things she has to in order to get moms to breastfeed when it’s difficult. I think the “baby-friendly” movement in hospitals is incredibly “mom-unfriendly”, and many women suffer for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

OP, I think that one thing that might be helpful is to reframe the bolded. There are a lot of really great lactation consultants and nurses who help new moms with breastfeeding issues in the hospital. Your assumption that there must be "some good ones" vs. "there must be some bad ones" speaks to your general attitude about this issue. You also mentioned very specifically that you don't have experience on this issue other than this one negative experience. Can you think of anything else in life where you generalize one negative experience this way?

Spot on.

It’s good to call out this LCs behavior and seek out better care for your friend. It’s getting lost a bit in the self indulgent histrionics. Your language blows. Chalking it up to an emotionally loaded time and feeling protective of your friend. Try using the words literally, and literal less and you’ll get better responses. .

[Anonymous]

I really don’t care how anyone feeds their baby, but I’m so sick of the “fed is best” nonsense. Breastmilk is nutritionally superior to formula. It just is. This is a scientific fact. The benefits may be overstated at times, but it is an undeniable FACT that there are benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

OP, I think that one thing that might be helpful is to reframe the bolded. There are a lot of really great lactation consultants and nurses who help new moms with breastfeeding issues in the hospital. Your assumption that there must be "some good ones" vs. "there must be some bad ones" speaks to your general attitude about this issue. You also mentioned very specifically that you don't have experience on this issue other than this one negative experience. Can you think of anything else in life where you generalize one negative experience this way?

Spot on.

It’s good to call out this LCs behavior and seek out better care for your friend. It’s getting lost a bit in the self indulgent histrionics. Your language blows. Chalking it up to an emotionally loaded time and feeling protective of your friend. Try using the words literally, and literal less and you’ll get better responses. .

She got plenty of responses to back her up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

OP, I think that one thing that might be helpful is to reframe the bolded. There are a lot of really great lactation consultants and nurses who help new moms with breastfeeding issues in the hospital. Your assumption that there must be "some good ones" vs. "there must be some bad ones" speaks to your general attitude about this issue. You also mentioned very specifically that you don't have experience on this issue other than this one negative experience. Can you think of anything else in life where you generalize one negative experience this way?

Spot on.

It’s good to call out this LCs behavior and seek out better care for your friend. It’s getting lost a bit in the self indulgent histrionics. Your language blows. Chalking it up to an emotionally loaded time and feeling protective of your friend. Try using the words literally, and literal less and you’ll get better responses. .

She got plenty of responses to back her up.

She called hospital staff a literal nobody. And two people is not plenty. She’s a well intended non parent drama queen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

OP, I think that one thing that might be helpful is to reframe the bolded. There are a lot of really great lactation consultants and nurses who help new moms with breastfeeding issues in the hospital. Your assumption that there must be "some good ones" vs. "there must be some bad ones" speaks to your general attitude about this issue. You also mentioned very specifically that you don't have experience on this issue other than this one negative experience. Can you think of anything else in life where you generalize one negative experience this way?

Spot on.

It’s good to call out this LCs behavior and seek out better care for your friend. It’s getting lost a bit in the self indulgent histrionics. Your language blows. Chalking it up to an emotionally loaded time and feeling protective of your friend. Try using the words literally, and literal less and you’ll get better responses. .

She got plenty of responses to back her up.

She called hospital staff a literal nobody. And two people is not plenty. She’s a well intended non parent drama queen.

Two people? Did you only read one page of this thread? I didn't really argue about your vocabulary lesson despite it not really having a point.

This lactation consultant spoke in am incredibly unprofessional and cruel way. If you actually support breastfeeding you would be just as angry as OP because an introduction like that will do nothing but turn people away.

I would have lost my crap if I'd heard someone talk like that to a new mom. Because I care about new moms.

[Anonymous]

Honestly? I think the lactivists are just not very smart and don't have a lot going on in their lives. Putting others down for feeding choices makes them feel superior. Huge disclaimer that when I say lactivist I don't mean those who breastfeed and/or find breastfeeding is important to them, I truly mean those who feel the need to push breastfeeding even when it's not working/not someone else's choice, or those who characterize women who don't do it as selfish or lazy. It just seems like every time one of these women pop up on a random Facebook article, if you click her profile she's an MLM seller with five kids, no education, and a profile photo linking bodily choice and the evils of vaccines. I know these generalizations maybe make me an asshole but seriously, there's so much overlap in these various categories of stupid.

[Anonymous]

There’s an obvious difference between putting you down,
and sharing science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There’s an obvious difference between putting you down,
and sharing science.

Oh you think the nurse who talked to ops friend was sharing science?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There’s an obvious difference between putting you down,
and sharing science.

Oh you think the nurse who talked to ops friend was sharing science?

Please go eat something and have a glass of water. Take a deep breath and count to four.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t care how anyone feeds their baby, but I’m so sick of the “fed is best” nonsense. Breastmilk is nutritionally superior to formula. It just is. This is a scientific fact. The benefits may be overstated at times, but it is an undeniable FACT that there are benefits.

And yet, somehow, nobody can tell which people were breastfed and which were formula fed. Because despite the "undeniable FACT" you refer to, it doesn't make a real difference on an individual level. When people say fed is best, they are saying the most important thing is to feed your baby.

Babies have starved because their mothers were told to "just keep nursing". And that unfortunately is a fact that actually matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t care how anyone feeds their baby, but I’m so sick of the “fed is best” nonsense. Breastmilk is nutritionally superior to formula. It just is. This is a scientific fact. The benefits may be overstated at times, but it is an undeniable FACT that there are benefits.

And yet, somehow, nobody can tell which people were breastfed and which were formula fed. Because despite the "undeniable FACT" you refer to, it doesn't make a real difference on an individual level. When people say fed is best, they are saying the most important thing is to feed your baby.

Babies have starved because their mothers were told to "just keep nursing". And that unfortunately is a fact that actually matters.

Nonsense. Breastfeeding reduces the risk of certain adverse physical outcomes. While we can not identify which formula fed babies suffering from those conditions wouldn’t have suffered if they had been breastfed, we know with certainly that some of those babies wouldn’t have been affected if they had been breastfed. Again, I don’t care what you do, but at least have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge that breastmilk is nutritionally superior.

[Anonymous]

OP. how is your friend doing tonight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am delivering at a so-called "breast friendly" hospital (which I guess is all of them). This is what i plan to say to the L&D nurses if the pressure me: I just met you; you dont know anything about my life or situation. In 48 hours, maybe sooner, you will be gone from my child's life. It would be silly for me to make a decision that will impact months if not years of my life based on your opinions.

My friend who is an OB says I should say: Thank you for doing your job, I know you are required to provide information on this topic as part of the breast friendly initiative. I have heard what you have to say now I am going to do whats best for me.

My friends speech is better but if i get really pissed, Ill revert to mine.

Is this your first baby?

Your L&D nurse doesn’t care what you do. She really doesn’t. She will ask if you want pain meds and it’s not a judgment so much as a clinical question. When your baby is born, most will suggest putting the baby to the breast since that’s pretty common. If you don’t want to, just tell them you’re not planning to breastfeed. It’s extremely personal to you. They actually are just at work.

Maybe try to take things less personally and you’ll have better results.

Exactly. Baby to breast immediately after birth helps you stop bleeding faster.