Lactivists are just mean girls all grown up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

https://www.parents.com/baby/all-about-babies/fed-is-best-one-moms-amazing-response-to-the-stranger-who-shamed-her-for/

Also the benefit was not from breastfeeding the benefit was from being wealthy.

Also, not sure why you are so intent on "how nature intended" when you immediately start giving your child yogurt and cheese from a cow, which is not how nature intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

Nature also intended us to have a dozen children over our lifetime, knowing that many of them would die before reaching adulthood. In op’s friend’s case, nature would have that baby with latch problems die. Are you good with that? Following “nature” is fine, but nature can be cruel too.

Sure, if breastfeeding works, it’s great for everybody, but when it doesn’t, formula is a fine substitute. Women shouldn’t be told they are somehow not being self-sacrificial enough if they have a child with latch problems. They should be given some formula and told to feed their babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

Nature also intended us to have a dozen children over our lifetime, knowing that many of them would die before reaching adulthood. In op’s friend’s case, nature would have that baby with latch problems die. Are you good with that? Following “nature” is fine, but nature can be cruel too.

Sure, if breastfeeding works, it’s great for everybody, but when it doesn’t, formula is a fine substitute. Women shouldn’t be told they are somehow not being self-sacrificial enough if they have a child with latch problems. They should be given some formula and told to feed their babies.

All these nature freaks put their daughters on birth control the second they get their period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

https://www.parents.com/baby/all-about-babies/fed-is-best-one-moms-amazing-response-to-the-stranger-who-shamed-her-for/

Also the benefit was not from breastfeeding the benefit was from being wealthy.

Also, not sure why you are so intent on "how nature intended" when you immediately start giving your child yogurt and cheese from a cow, which is not how nature intended.

Nope. Conjecture on your part. My kid does not eat dairy. I don't think birth control should be used except for heavy periods and pain. LT BC has lots of risk and there are other ways to prevent pregnancy.

Also the whole point of LCs is to help with latch problems. So youre just saying that if within X amount of time, baby doesn't latch perfectly, a mom should just abandon breastfeeding? Like what arbitrary timeframe to you have in mind? 1 day? 25 days?
The reason pumping is suggested is because breastfeeding and milk production is demand based. Most moms cant go without nursing or pumping and still have enough milk to support their child exclusively down the line. Some moms can combo feed and keep their supply but this has a lot to do with the amount of milk that your ducts can store. Some women's breasts can store 4 oz total, some can store 25oz. You don't know and therefore, you need to just nurse.

And we can all talk in circles about how hard breastfeeding is and how THAT is the one thing that is unnecessarily pushed but what it is hard is the lack of support, the lack of paid leave, the lack of appropriate postpartum care. Why am I required to leave my house with a newborn to get my 6 week visit- why aren't nurses and PAs visiting moms at home, etc. Why aren't there more PP visits, more pelvic floor therapy pre-and-post partum. BFing is just the scapegoat for real policies that help new families and children.

[Anonymous]

Let me get out my popcorn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

https://www.parents.com/baby/all-about-babies/fed-is-best-one-moms-amazing-response-to-the-stranger-who-shamed-her-for/

Also the benefit was not from breastfeeding the benefit was from being wealthy.

Also, not sure why you are so intent on "how nature intended" when you immediately start giving your child yogurt and cheese from a cow, which is not how nature intended.

Nope. Conjecture on your part. My kid does not eat dairy. I don't think birth control should be used except for heavy periods and pain. LT BC has lots of risk and there are other ways to prevent pregnancy.

Also the whole point of LCs is to help with latch problems. So youre just saying that if within X amount of time, baby doesn't latch perfectly, a mom should just abandon breastfeeding? Like what arbitrary timeframe to you have in mind? 1 day? 25 days?
The reason pumping is suggested is because breastfeeding and milk production is demand based. Most moms cant go without nursing or pumping and still have enough milk to support their child exclusively down the line. Some moms can combo feed and keep their supply but this has a lot to do with the amount of milk that your ducts can store. Some women's breasts can store 4 oz total, some can store 25oz. You don't know and therefore, you need to just nurse.

And we can all talk in circles about how hard breastfeeding is and how THAT is the one thing that is unnecessarily pushed but what it is hard is the lack of support, the lack of paid leave, the lack of appropriate postpartum care. Why am I required to leave my house with a newborn to get my 6 week visit- why aren't nurses and PAs visiting moms at home, etc. Why aren't there more PP visits, more pelvic floor therapy pre-and-post partum. BFing is just the scapegoat for real policies that help new families and children.

Your child will eat dairy and drink alcohol and smoke pot and will get on the pill... get over it... perfect parenting is a train wreck waiting to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

Nature also intended us to have a dozen children over our lifetime, knowing that many of them would die before reaching adulthood. In op’s friend’s case, nature would have that baby with latch problems die. Are you good with that? Following “nature” is fine, but nature can be cruel too.

Sure, if breastfeeding works, it’s great for everybody, but when it doesn’t, formula is a fine substitute. Women shouldn’t be told they are somehow not being self-sacrificial enough if they have a child with latch problems. They should be given some formula and told to feed their babies.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pressure from medical personnel is different from societal pressure, which is what I was talking about.

Example: Baby has dairy allergy- literally everyone says dont BF, formula will be easier..why are you dairy-free, just give the baby formula. Over and Over. Formula is accepted socially. Its in every grocery store, in every Target/Walmart, you can order it online. You dont have to jump through hoops to get formula, you dont need a doctors RX for formula (and therefore, their permission)- and before I get vitriol- I do believe it should be readily accessible and no one should be shamed for how they choose to feed their child.

Medical personnel are encouraging of breastfeeding because it does have benefits to the mother and child.

If you disagree with how they are approaching this topic, say so. They work for you. Give feedback to your providers and say that the question should be:

"I noted that you put a question mark for whether you plan to breastfeed. Would you like to discuss the pros and cons of both breastfeeding and formula and/or talk about how we can support you with either choice?"

The problem with the breastfeeding initiative and BFHI by UNICEF and WHO is that initiatives have to show results in order to continue. So there is this HUGE push before and at delivery but there is no continual support after delivery and/or post-partum.

There is no support (LC or nurse) to go to the mom in the week/weeks after delivery to assess how feeding is going and/or to provide help, look for tongue/lip ties, assess swallow reflex, look for torticollis, etc. There is no leave policy to give moms and dads time off work. Its insane.

What? You don't need either of those for breastfeeding either. How does this show that there is societal pressure towards formula feeding? Is anything other than putting up razor wire and an obstacle course before you can get some formula "pressuring" moms to use it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

https://www.parents.com/baby/all-about-babies/fed-is-best-one-moms-amazing-response-to-the-stranger-who-shamed-her-for/

Also the benefit was not from breastfeeding the benefit was from being wealthy.

Also, not sure why you are so intent on "how nature intended" when you immediately start giving your child yogurt and cheese from a cow, which is not how nature intended.

Nope. Conjecture on your part. My kid does not eat dairy. I don't think birth control should be used except for heavy periods and pain. LT BC has lots of risk and there are other ways to prevent pregnancy.

Also the whole point of LCs is to help with latch problems. So youre just saying that if within X amount of time, baby doesn't latch perfectly, a mom should just abandon breastfeeding? Like what arbitrary timeframe to you have in mind? 1 day? 25 days?
The reason pumping is suggested is because breastfeeding and milk production is demand based. Most moms cant go without nursing or pumping and still have enough milk to support their child exclusively down the line. Some moms can combo feed and keep their supply but this has a lot to do with the amount of milk that your ducts can store. Some women's breasts can store 4 oz total, some can store 25oz. You don't know and therefore, you need to just nurse.

And we can all talk in circles about how hard breastfeeding is and how THAT is the one thing that is unnecessarily pushed but what it is hard is the lack of support, the lack of paid leave, the lack of appropriate postpartum care. Why am I required to leave my house with a newborn to get my 6 week visit- why aren't nurses and PAs visiting moms at home, etc. Why aren't there more PP visits, more pelvic floor therapy pre-and-post partum. BFing is just the scapegoat for real policies that help new families and children.

Your child will eat dairy and drink alcohol and smoke pot and will get on the pill... get over it... perfect parenting is a train wreck waiting to happen.

So you took once sentence out of that response to respond to. And no, my kid wont eat dairy- he is allergic. You're a real peach. Nothin up there was about perfect parenting it was about how BF pressure is the scapegoat for the fact that we have horrible family support policies in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

I can't eyeroll this absurd nonsense more.

I went to a breastfeeding support group for one of my kids. I remember one day very vividly. There was a new mom in tears because breastfeeding was going very badly. Her baby wasn't latching and she was in a lot of pain. AND she finally broke down explaining how her husband had grabbed the formula bottle from her when he "caught" her holding it and THROWN it at her.

Did the LC leader stop immediately and pull her aside, and ask her about whether she and her baby were safe? Did she unequivocally tell the poor woman that it was okay that she tried to use formula? No. She agreed with the husband! She told the woman that he was right "even if he didn't express it well," and totally ignored the obvious signs of abuse.

I left and never looked back. I tried to find the woman to talk with her, but she slipped away in tears. Years later I still think of her sometimes and hope she is safe. Oh, and because you obviously care, I breastfed my kids for two years each. But I want nothing to do with lactivists.

[Anonymous]

Nature mom is crazy. Your kid might be lactose intolerant but I assume, since you're posting on dcum, that you're not living in a cave warming yourself by a fire you made while your husband hunts some bison. I assume that if your child became very sick, you would not just leave it up to nature, you would try to heal them. If you got cancer, you would not just throw your hands up and say, "well what was meant to be will be." I assume you use electricity and antibiotics and drink water out of the tap like the rest of us.

Nature is cruel and hard and if there was some type of civilization collapse tomorrow most of the people left over would die pretty quickly due to modern humans generally being completely unequipped to face the natural world.

If you do live off the grid and kill your own food and only have a phone under the floorboards you pull out for when you're close enough to town to get your fill of mom shaming then ok, you might not be a hypocrite, just a jerk. But I doubt that a lot.

[Anonymous]

We live in a misogynistic culture hates women, and the discussion around breastfeeding is a perfect example.

When women breastfeed in public, they get harassed and even kicked out of public establishments. Awful.

When women can't, struggle or choose not to breastfeed, the medical establishment falsely tells her she is selfish and hurting her child. Disgraceful.

These are two sides of the same coin. Neither action is respectful of women's bodies or their bodily autonomy. Neither action is good for mothers or babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in a misogynistic culture hates women, and the discussion around breastfeeding is a perfect example.

When women breastfeed in public, they get harassed and even kicked out of public establishments. Awful.

When women can't, struggle or choose not to breastfeed, the medical establishment falsely tells her she is selfish and hurting her child. Disgraceful.

These are two sides of the same coin. Neither action is respectful of women's bodies or their bodily autonomy. Neither action is good for mothers or babies.

DING DING DING!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yall are out of your minds. I have NEVER heard or seen a mom who is feeding her child formula shamed. Not ever. I have worked with kids and their families on/off for 15 years. Never heard any other moms talk about it, never seen facebook posts about it, etc.

I do see moms who BF in public ridiculed. I do see posts about it, I have seen it happen in person, and I have experienced it. I do see women ridiculed for breastfeeding more than 3 months, more than 6 months, more than a year. Never hear ANYONE ridicule a mom for using formula for 3 months or 6 months or expect them to switch to something else.

And for the previously linked Harvard article, she doesnt waffle on the benefits of BM. Its not bottle feeding (formula or BM) that prevents obesity. Breastmilk from the breast is how nature intended babies to be fed.

https://www.parents.com/baby/all-about-babies/fed-is-best-one-moms-amazing-response-to-the-stranger-who-shamed-her-for/

Also the benefit was not from breastfeeding the benefit was from being wealthy.

Also, not sure why you are so intent on "how nature intended" when you immediately start giving your child yogurt and cheese from a cow, which is not how nature intended.

Nope. Conjecture on your part. My kid does not eat dairy. I don't think birth control should be used except for heavy periods and pain. LT BC has lots of risk and there are other ways to prevent pregnancy.

Also the whole point of LCs is to help with latch problems. So youre just saying that if within X amount of time, baby doesn't latch perfectly, a mom should just abandon breastfeeding? Like what arbitrary timeframe to you have in mind? 1 day? 25 days?
The reason pumping is suggested is because breastfeeding and milk production is demand based. Most moms cant go without nursing or pumping and still have enough milk to support their child exclusively down the line. Some moms can combo feed and keep their supply but this has a lot to do with the amount of milk that your ducts can store. Some women's breasts can store 4 oz total, some can store 25oz. You don't know and therefore, you need to just nurse.

And we can all talk in circles about how hard breastfeeding is and how THAT is the one thing that is unnecessarily pushed but what it is hard is the lack of support, the lack of paid leave, the lack of appropriate postpartum care. Why am I required to leave my house with a newborn to get my 6 week visit- why aren't nurses and PAs visiting moms at home, etc. Why aren't there more PP visits, more pelvic floor therapy pre-and-post partum. BFing is just the scapegoat for real policies that help new families and children.

Your child will eat dairy and drink alcohol and smoke pot and will get on the pill... get over it... perfect parenting is a train wreck waiting to happen.

So you took once sentence out of that response to respond to. And no, my kid wont eat dairy- he is allergic. You're a real peach. Nothin up there was about perfect parenting it was about how BF pressure is the scapegoat for the fact that we have horrible family support policies in the US.

Isn't breastfeeding/breastmilk supposed to reduce the likelihood of food allergies??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Isn't breastfeeding/breastmilk supposed to reduce the likelihood of food allergies??

As much as I abhor the "as nature intended" argument, this is also stupid. Nobody is telling people breastfeeding prevents all food allergies. The argument is it makes them less likely. Not sure if that's true, and at the end of the day, BFed and FFed babies can get food allergies, so do what works for your family.