Lactivists are just mean girls all grown up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone needs to stop with the "formula is 100% just as good as breast milk" stuff. It's not.

Have you ever heard of a mom anywhere in the world with a bottle of breastmilk in front of her who says, "I'm not going to give that to my baby, I'm going to go make some formula instead." ??

Have you ever heard of a mom anywhere in the world with two bottles in front of her, breastmilk and formula, and says, "I'll choose the formula today. Why not. The baby can have some variety. After all, formula is just as good as breastmilk."

Have you ever heard of a NICU or hospital anywhere in the world with a bottle of breastmilk from the baby's mom and decides not to give it because, "well the baby can just get some variety and formula is 100% just as good"???

Would any mom or medical professional ever reject the mom's breastmilk (baring some medical contraindications, obviously) in favor of formula?

Would any hospital anywhere not do whatever they knew how to do (which admittedly varies wildly) to help the mom produce milk for a new baby or especially a baby in the NICU who needs all the help they can get?

No, of course not. That's because formula is NOT as good as breastmilk. End of story.

I don't know what you're all arguing about. What are all the insults for? There's no need to make anyone feel bad for their choices. There are plenty of very "valid" reasons why breastfeeding doesn't work for a woman or a family - if she's sick, or doesn't produce enough, or is taking medications, has health issues, etc etc.

But please, let's just stop with the "formula is just as good", because it's NOT. So the PP earlier on the thread who said something like "formula isn't the best thing for the baby but if it works for their family better then I don't care" is right. Sorry if you don't like hearing it, but it's true. Let's just accept facts and move on. You can still be an amazing mom. And maybe you could even be a better mom overall than someone who breastfeeds. Especially if breastfeeding is difficult. But the best food for a baby, especially a new baby, is the mom's breastmilk.

You are a moron. Go read the actual science on breastfeeding (though I suspect you could not understand any of it) and then come back.

- Extended BFer

Actually, I'm a scientist. If you were also a scientist then you'd understand that "science" is still figuring out exactly what is even IN breastmilk, and why it's there. Feel free to read the studies, and look at the publication dates, if you can figure it out.

If you are, you are a deeply sad commentary on the state of science these days. Pathetic.

NP, and the problem--which absolutely is a problem with many scientists--is that formula vs. breast milk doesn't occur in a vacuum. It's moot if breast milk is slightly better for some babies than others if that comes along with a host of negative outcomes for the family. From a policy perspective, breast milk isn't THAT much better than formula for it to be pushed as hard as it is, especially not in a country like this one, in which there is no lengthy paid maternity leave for all women and very little support for postpartum women in general. My guess is that there's too much variability in its actual benefits to know from a pure scientific perspective, but from what we do know, and in combination with how little support women receive, insisting that "breast is best" probably does more damage than good.

Wow!! Read what you have written. Our policies around pregnancy, maternity leave, equal pay, nursing, flexible work... Is so anti-woman and so you are saying that instead of changing the policies so that women have real choices, placate the women and let them not feel bad about formula? No concern at all for long term impact on health of baby and mom - both emotional and physical?
I guess there are lactivists because the workplace is so terrible for women.

DP. I read PP's comment as saying that we have all of these campaigns/lactivists pushing breastfeeding, but our policies around postpartum care and maternity leave make breastfeeding extremely difficult if not impossible for many women. The end result is we make it impossible for many women to breastfeed and then to add insult to injury, we tell them they are harming their child by not breastfeeding. How about we focus on supporting women in their choices instead of telling them what they should do, then making it impossible for them to do it?

You read my comment correctly. I find the pressure on women to breastfeed *in the context of US culture* completely abhorrent. Of COURSE we should change the policies, but until we do, we have no business pressuring women to do something that many find stressful. As for long-term impact of health, give me a break. Look at all the women who nearly cripple themselves with stress to breastfeed their kids. You think that does them or their children any good? If all the energy spent pressuring women to breastfeed went into changing the actual policy, we'd all be a lot better off.

I disagree that there is pressure on women to breastfeed. Everything is skewed towards women not breastfeeding in the workplace.
I chose to breastfeed because it was the most natural biological instinct I had towards my kids. I was the lone mom doing that at my work place and o was villified by my female boss. Who happened to be the second wife of a man with 6 kids, and who never had kids of her own.

You have actually just identified the real issue. There is tremendous emotional and cultural pressure from the hospitals and 'mom' culture that centers around, primarily, fear, to breastfeed. And there is virtually no support for women in their lives or careers for breastfeeding. Which is a recipe for hormonal postpartum moms to feel like complete failures no matter what they do.

In reality, everyone should be able to choose the path that makes sense for them without feeling like it is a referendum on their parenthood.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I’m about to blow all of your minds, especially those who say I hate women who breastfeed. I don’t have children, I have never given birth.

What I do have is a best friend in the hospital, who just delivered her first baby over the weekend. She suffered from three heartbreaking, soul-shattering miscarriages after years of TTC and fertility treatments. Pushing 40, she though her luck had run out. She was wrong. She welcomed her absolutely perfect DD and all her friends and family couldn’t be more thrilled.

As you can imagine she did absolutely everything she could to prepare for her DD’s arrival, including taking multiple breastfeeding classes and quitting her high paying career. None of the money and success mattered anymore after her journey. All she wanted to do was be a mom.

After birth, baby refused to latch. Nurses were stumped what to do. Baby was frantic and hungry. She kept trying and trying to put baby at the breast to no avail. Her husband suggested formula and she begrudgingly also asked for some formula because she couldn’t bear to see her sweet girl cry in hunger while showing no signs of wanting to take the breast.

That’s when the lactation consultant dropped this bomb on her: “Keep offering the breast. You need to think about your baby first. The days are over where it’s all about you you you, and if you go straight to formula we both know it’s not the baby’s needs you’re trying to satisfy.”

I was in the room visiting and she burst into tears. I’m not typically one to interject but I immediately stood up and told the mean girl we were done here. It took everything I had and that her DH had to calm her down. We called for another nurse and reported what was said. It was horrific.

So here I am looking for any resources available to help her try and BF, offered to do whatever I could. But I’m sure this kind of thing is said all the time and it has to effing stop.

[Anonymous]

OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

[Anonymous]

Its ok... just hope they don't wonder why they ended up with the mean bullying kids as the apple doesn't fall very far....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m about to blow all of your minds, especially those who say I hate women who breastfeed. I don’t have children, I have never given birth.

What I do have is a best friend in the hospital, who just delivered her first baby over the weekend. She suffered from three heartbreaking, soul-shattering miscarriages after years of TTC and fertility treatments. Pushing 40, she though her luck had run out. She was wrong. She welcomed her absolutely perfect DD and all her friends and family couldn’t be more thrilled.

As you can imagine she did absolutely everything she could to prepare for her DD’s arrival, including taking multiple breastfeeding classes and quitting her high paying career. None of the money and success mattered anymore after her journey. All she wanted to do was be a mom.

After birth, baby refused to latch. Nurses were stumped what to do. Baby was frantic and hungry. She kept trying and trying to put baby at the breast to no avail. Her husband suggested formula and she begrudgingly also asked for some formula because she couldn’t bear to see her sweet girl cry in hunger while showing no signs of wanting to take the breast.

That’s when the lactation consultant dropped this bomb on her: “Keep offering the breast. You need to think about your baby first. The days are over where it’s all about you you you, and if you go straight to formula we both know it’s not the baby’s needs you’re trying to satisfy.”

I was in the room visiting and she burst into tears. I’m not typically one to interject but I immediately stood up and told the mean girl we were done here. It took everything I had and that her DH had to calm her down. We called for another nurse and reported what was said. It was horrific.

So here I am looking for any resources available to help her try and BF, offered to do whatever I could. But I’m sure this kind of thing is said all the time and it has to effing stop.

Most lactation consultants are not trained professionals. They are people who went to a few courses and like to tell others what to do. Kick out the person and tell her that that woman is wrong and formula is fine. Lots of benefits to formula, including others getting to feed baby so mom gets a break and Dad's get to bond more and be more active. We adopted, never BF and our child is happy and very well bonded to us. I don't regret a minute of not being able to BF. In a few years, BF vs. FF will not matter as she has the joy of her live and the child she always wanted.

[Anonymous]

I couldn't exclusively breastfeed my son when he was an infant. Had to use formula- was heartbroken believing I wasn't a good mom or giving my baby the best. Talked with my grandma (wise woman who recently passed).

Her words:

"Larlita, there are probably a lot of stupid people in the world who were breastfed."

I laughed so hard, and never looked back.

Everyone do your best, but my kid is a teen now, and there are no guarantees. Wait until you expend all of your energy on this debate of what is best to put into your kid's body and 15 years later, you catch them with weed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP did not generalize. She specifically said it's not everyone. But this type of behavior should result in a loss of certification for a lactation consultant. She should lose her job. And we all know that's not what's happening. And that is horrible, full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ONCE AGAIN FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK.

No one is judging specific choices here. We're judging people who JUDGE specific choices. If that isn't you than this thread isn't about you.

I feel no one judges anyone because no one has the time to judge. Op needs therapy if there are people in her life making her feel bad - knowingly or unknowingly. If op was 100% happy with her choice she could just dismiss this debate. She is feeling like shit because she is allowing herself to feel like shit. Therapy, stat.

This is just patently false. And you're on DCUM where judging is a pastime so you should know that.

Mmmmmmm. Even though I get where she’s coming from, there’s so much hostility.

[Anonymous]

OP, call here:

http://breastfeedingcenter.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

[Anonymous]

Do not discuss feeding choices with ANYONE. It's nobody's business but yours. If anyone asks, reply with "why are you asking?" or "why do you care?" - mom who breastfed each child for more than 2 years.

[Anonymous]

The calmer mom is, the easier it will be. This won’t solve latch issues, but if she’s feeling anxious babe will too. Try some ready to feeds and get mom some sleep. She will need to keep offering the breast, but defusing the situation by easing the intensity will help. Nipple shields are really tough at first, but can help with tiny baby. Get her to a support group or home visit lactation consultant ASAP, there are some amazing levelheaded compassionate ones.

for you, look up how to support family’s during “fourth trimester”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

OP, I think that one thing that might be helpful is to reframe the bolded. There are a lot of really great lactation consultants and nurses who help new moms with breastfeeding issues in the hospital. Your assumption that there must be "some good ones" vs. "there must be some bad ones" speaks to your general attitude about this issue. You also mentioned very specifically that you don't have experience on this issue other than this one negative experience. Can you think of anything else in life where you generalize one negative experience this way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

OP here. I’m sorry. I know there must be some good ones but I’m just still fuming. I literally can’t believe what was said to her had I know heard it with my own ears. And this isn’t the first friend who has dealt with this. Just the worst episode. I’m so disgusted this literal nobody swiped at a woman who is an Ivy educated, strong, incredible woman who would give a complete stranger the shirt off her back. Hence my assertion that this consultant was just a meanie trying to level the playing field. I hope you’ll forgive my anger.

OP, I think that one thing that might be helpful is to reframe the bolded. There are a lot of really great lactation consultants and nurses who help new moms with breastfeeding issues in the hospital. Your assumption that there must be "some good ones" vs. "there must be some bad ones" speaks to your general attitude about this issue. You also mentioned very specifically that you don't have experience on this issue other than this one negative experience. Can you think of anything else in life where you generalize one negative experience this way?

Disagree. OP witnessed something awful, and as many women can attest, it's not an isolated problem. It is infuriating that that lactation consultant's behavior is tolerated in a hospital. Anger the healthy reaction to witnessing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, that is an awful story and I'm glad you and her husband were able to manage the situation. Having said that, there are plenty of lactation consultants who are nothing like that so please be careful how you generalize.

But there are also plenty of lactation consultants--whose literal job it is to SUPPORT the WOMEN who want to breastfeed--who do behave this way.

I'm so sorry for your friend, OP. She did nothing wrong. Good for you and her husband for standing up for her.