Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does Prep have a similar issue with Diamond Skills baseball? The Prep coach seems like a good guy.

Interestingly the Prep coach is a co-owner of Diamond Skills with the Gibbs brothers but does not require his players to play for Diamond Skills. Maybe he recognizes it's wrong to shake down his players' families, or maybe the adults in charge at Prep have told him he can't do it. Dunno. But something that's pretty telling about the quality of the Diamond Skills program is that very few Prep kids choose to play. If you read through the 9 pages of comments above, a lot of people seem to agree that it's natural to believe athletes who play for their coach's travel program would get preferential treatment in the school season. So you'd think the Prep kids would choose to play for Diamond Skills. Nope. Given a choice, they go out and find a better alternative. But SJC kids are forced to do it or get kicked out of the program. That should be all you need to know.

[Anonymous]

Prep kids are also encouraged to play more than one sport, which is not possible when playing year round baseball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.
[b]
.

I think that’s how we got Penn State, MSU, LSU, UMD, UNC fake classes, etc. You go from having coaching autonomy to 100% autonomy in all things. These coaches aren’t gods - they need to be supervised. If they screw up, its the kids and the institution that gets damaged.

If you kid is interested in a particular team sport, the coach is very important. Study the coach and if he doesn’t meet your standards, find a new coach by what ever means necessary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

No, this is requiring thousands of extra dollars of travel team expenses on top of the school tuition just to be on the *roster* for a team, not just to play. This should be restricted by the WCAC. Not every kid can or wants to play individual sports. It irrelevant to this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:because your kid does not "fit" into his system

Translation: Because the kid's parents wouldn't pay the coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Prep have a similar issue with Diamond Skills baseball? The Prep coach seems like a good guy.

Interestingly the Prep coach is a co-owner of Diamond Skills with the Gibbs brothers but does not require his players to play for Diamond Skills. Maybe he recognizes it's wrong to shake down his players' families, or maybe the adults in charge at Prep have told him he can't do it. Dunno. But something that's pretty telling about the quality of the Diamond Skills program is that very few Prep kids choose to play. If you read through the 9 pages of comments above, a lot of people seem to agree that it's natural to believe athletes who play for their coach's travel program would get preferential treatment in the school season. So you'd think the Prep kids would choose to play for Diamond Skills. Nope. Given a choice, they go out and find a better alternative. But SJC kids are forced to do it or get kicked out of the program. That should be all you need to know.

This is a huge conflict of interest. As a baseball coach I get tons of requests to give a private lesson or evaluation. If it’s a kid that plays for me I won’t do it. I’ll make a recommendation to have them see someone I trust, but I’m certainly not going to accept money for fear alone of how it can be perceived. I suppose I have morals.
The only reason a coach would be so bold as to do something like this is if it’s supported by the institution that employs them. Christian brotherhood my ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

LOL. I think PP doesn't know much about team sports. Coaches' decisions get challenged all day every day, even (especially) at powerhouse programs. Like any program, there are some parents and athletes who are afraid to confront the coach, then there are others (and not just parents of stars) who don't hesitate, even to the extent of demanding that reasonable team rules not apply to them and/or demanding playing time for athletes who miss practices or violate team rules. Coaches don't need to give in to those demands, but dealing with them is a PITA, particularly when the parents go to the AD and/or administration. Why? Because a responsible admin needs to listen at least a bit to ANY issue that gets raised even if just to do due diligence. In addition, powerhouse programs deal with the media who are looking for a good (often negative) story and with boosters whose expectations become sky high pretty quickly. In addition, there's recruiting to deal with and keeping current athletes happy. I know of a DMV top 20 high school team that lost talented kids (including power-5 conference D1 commits) both of the last two years as transfers because the coach thought he could insist on a "my way or the highway" approach, and several key players chose "highway." Also, as a coach, when you try to push your way too hard without getting buy in from your players, talented kids can underperform and you lose games. That also happened to the coach I'm thinking of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Prep have a similar issue with Diamond Skills baseball? The Prep coach seems like a good guy.

Interestingly the Prep coach is a co-owner of Diamond Skills with the Gibbs brothers but does not require his players to play for Diamond Skills. Maybe he recognizes it's wrong to shake down his players' families, or maybe the adults in charge at Prep have told him he can't do it. Dunno. But something that's pretty telling about the quality of the Diamond Skills program is that very few Prep kids choose to play. If you read through the 9 pages of comments above, a lot of people seem to agree that it's natural to believe athletes who play for their coach's travel program would get preferential treatment in the school season. So you'd think the Prep kids would choose to play for Diamond Skills. Nope. Given a choice, they go out and find a better alternative. But SJC kids are forced to do it or get kicked out of the program. That should be all you need to know.

This is a huge conflict of interest. As a baseball coach I get tons of requests to give a private lesson or evaluation. If it’s a kid that plays for me I won’t do it. I’ll make a recommendation to have them see someone I trust, but I’m certainly not going to accept money for fear alone of how it can be perceived. I suppose I have morals.
The only reason a coach would be so bold as to do something like this is if it’s supported by the institution that employs them. Christian brotherhood my ass.

+1 I'm thankful that there are people like you with morals. I clicked on this thread because I know of the St. John's soccer coach and know some of the kids who play for him, but I'm now completely fascinated by the baseball story. These descriptions of what's happening to that program are horrifying, and I hope more star players and their families can get involved to change the culture there. I can't believe it has been allowed to go on for so long.

[Anonymous]

It's an issue certainly worth raising with the AD, the parents association and even the Board. Our private (not the sports powerhouse that St Johns is) had to hire a new soccer coach. One option was a well-qualified coach who wanted to set up a similar program at our school (working his brand, using our fields, setting up camps, etc etc). ultimately he was not hired, and my sense is that it was largely because the school was concerned about the potential conflicts of interest, the coach's loyalty to his brand vs the school and the kids, the ways his hiring would change the culture of the program, etc. The coach hired has been excellent, and after reading these posts, I am so relieved we didn't hire the other guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Prep have a similar issue with Diamond Skills baseball? The Prep coach seems like a good guy.

Interestingly the Prep coach is a co-owner of Diamond Skills with the Gibbs brothers but does not require his players to play for Diamond Skills. Maybe he recognizes it's wrong to shake down his players' families, or maybe the adults in charge at Prep have told him he can't do it. Dunno. But something that's pretty telling about the quality of the Diamond Skills program is that very few Prep kids choose to play. If you read through the 9 pages of comments above, a lot of people seem to agree that it's natural to believe athletes who play for their coach's travel program would get preferential treatment in the school season. So you'd think the Prep kids would choose to play for Diamond Skills. Nope. Given a choice, they go out and find a better alternative. But SJC kids are forced to do it or get kicked out of the program. That should be all you need to know.

This is a huge conflict of interest. As a baseball coach I get tons of requests to give a private lesson or evaluation. If it’s a kid that plays for me I won’t do it. I’ll make a recommendation to have them see someone I trust, but I’m certainly not going to accept money for fear alone of how it can be perceived. I suppose I have morals.
The only reason a coach would be so bold as to do something like this is if it’s supported by the institution that employs them. Christian brotherhood my ass.

+1 I'm thankful that there are people like you with morals. I clicked on this thread because I know of the St. John's soccer coach and know some of the kids who play for him, but I'm now completely fascinated by the baseball story. These descriptions of what's happening to that program are horrifying, and I hope more star players and their families can get involved to change the culture there. I can't believe it has been allowed to go on for so long.

For the soccer team, he has one exceptional player from his club and the rest are a mixed bag, no better or worse than the rest of the team. Seems like if you put a few grand in his pocket and your kid is a freshman starting on varsity. It’s equally horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does Prep have a similar issue with Diamond Skills baseball? The Prep coach seems like a good guy.

Interestingly the Prep coach is a co-owner of Diamond Skills with the Gibbs brothers but does not require his players to play for Diamond Skills. Maybe he recognizes it's wrong to shake down his players' families, or maybe the adults in charge at Prep have told him he can't do it. Dunno. But something that's pretty telling about the quality of the Diamond Skills program is that very few Prep kids choose to play. If you read through the 9 pages of comments above, a lot of people seem to agree that it's natural to believe athletes who play for their coach's travel program would get preferential treatment in the school season. So you'd think the Prep kids would choose to play for Diamond Skills. Nope. Given a choice, they go out and find a better alternative. But SJC kids are forced to do it or get kicked out of the program. That should be all you need to know.

This is a huge conflict of interest. As a baseball coach I get tons of requests to give a private lesson or evaluation. If it’s a kid that plays for me I won’t do it. I’ll make a recommendation to have them see someone I trust, but I’m certainly not going to accept money for fear alone of how it can be perceived. I suppose I have morals.
The only reason a coach would be so bold as to do something like this is if it’s supported by the institution that employs them. Christian brotherhood my ass.

+1 I'm thankful that there are people like you with morals. I clicked on this thread because I know of the St. John's soccer coach and know some of the kids who play for him, but I'm now completely fascinated by the baseball story. These descriptions of what's happening to that program are horrifying, and I hope more star players and their families can get involved to change the culture there. I can't believe it has been allowed to go on for so long.

For the soccer team, he has one exceptional player from his club and the rest are a mixed bag, no better or worse than the rest of the team. Seems like if you put a few grand in his pocket and your kid is a freshman starting on varsity. It’s equally horrifying.

+1 on the soccer program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prep kids are also encouraged to play more than one sport, which is not possible when playing year round baseball.

My son plays year round soccer and doesn't play a winter or spring sport for Prep. Prep has no issue with it.

-Prep parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're going to have your kids play team sports, then STFU. You should not be complaining. In team sports, coaches have all the powers and can decide who can play and who can sit on the bench. Coaches's decisions can not be challenged.

If you or your kids don't want to be put into that situation, play individual sports like tennis, golf, swimming or squash. The best players get to start and they settle this through match play. Those with the best record during the trial out will be starters. DS played varsity tennis for Flint Hill last year and the top player on the team was an absolute a hole but the coach couldn't do anything about it because he earned his top spot on the team by beating everyone.

You're delusional. What is being described at SJC is kids not being allowed to play on the school baseball team because they won't pay the coaches' private travel program in the offseason. These are kids who are already paying $20K per year to go to SJC. Do you really not see a problem with that?

It's a "team" sport. Coaches have control over who can and can not play. Your kid may look good to one coach but not to any coach because your kid does not "fit" into his system and there is nothing you can do about it.

If you don't like it, have your kid play individual sports. That way it takes the control away from coaches.

A coach could absolutely bench that tennis player you name called.

No the coach can not do that. As long as the tennis player does not violate team rules, in good academic standing, and beat everyone at tryouts for the spot, there is nothing the coach can do about it. Everything at tryouts is on record. If the coach tries to put in his own mediocre players, he will hear from both the parents and the Ad.