Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.

I missed the part about "except for college admissions where the color of your skin matters a lot."

Affirmative action is a partial remedy for outrageous racial discrimination, which still exists in housing, education, and employment.

FFS how many handicaps do you want and for how long?

Until the cycle of poverty has been broken for all descendants of slaves.

The descendants were making progress on breaking the cycle of poverty until the Democratic Great Society programs killed marriage in the black community.

[Anonymous]

Follow the light my little rabbits! Get out of that hole. Follow the light...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.

I missed the part about "except for college admissions where the color of your skin matters a lot."

Affirmative action is a partial remedy for outrageous racial discrimination, which still exists in housing, education, and employment.

FFS how many handicaps do you want and for how long?

Until the cycle of poverty has been broken for all descendants of slaves.

The descendants were making progress on breaking the cycle of poverty until the Democratic Great Society programs killed marriage in the black community.

The welfare system encourages single motherhood by disinsentivising fathers in the household. The war on drugs incarcerated large amounts of inner city black males. Democratic policies destroyed the life of blacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.

I missed the part about "except for college admissions where the color of your skin matters a lot."

Affirmative action is a partial remedy for outrageous racial discrimination, which still exists in housing, education, and employment.

FFS how many handicaps do you want and for how long?

Until the cycle of poverty has been broken for all descendants of slaves.

Until you stop discriminating. The whole education system everywhere in the country is built around minimizing the number of black kids in the best schools. Suburbs are built around minimizing the number of black families in the best neighborhoods.

Before Affirmative Action, college admissions was not a meritocracy. It wasn’t even based on the students, as much as on the patronage, influence, and wealth of their parents. That is still there, but you have all been trained to blame all your disappointments on black people who just won’t in their place.

lol your entire brain is full of liberal crap I can't believe people like you actually exist in society

you know you are actually hurting black people with your rhetoric encouraging them to keep playing the victim card instead of working hard and advancing like every other group in American society

no one is out to get black people it's all inside your little liberal pea brain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.

I missed the part about "except for college admissions where the color of your skin matters a lot."

Affirmative action is a partial remedy for outrageous racial discrimination, which still exists in housing, education, and employment.

FFS how many handicaps do you want and for how long?

Until the cycle of poverty has been broken for all descendants of slaves.

That attitude will ensure the cycle will never be broke down. Waiting around for handouts and special accommodations whilst not assuming personal accountability for outcomes will disenfranchise another generation of blacks. That makes me sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mixed race with two DC already in college so this issue isn’t all that critical for me but I’ve always been curious about the definition of white students with respect to admissions. The elite colleges are about 50% URM, over-represented minority (Asian American) and international, so that leaves 50% as white. Typically, half of those white identifying students are Jewish so non-jewish whites account for roughly 25% of the student body. Currently about 60% of Americans identify as non-Jewish white.....so isn’t that population actually underrepresented?

Those who like the proportional representation game should be aware: Jewish Americans are < 2% of the population, yet dramatically "over-represented" everywhere -- I'd argue because of cultural values re education, brains, and ambition.

If we need to increase the number's of AA's in elite colleges to match their proportion of the US population, don't we need to DRAMATICALLY reduce the number of Jewish kids as well?

(No, I am NOT recommending this)

Well, affirmative action screwed Jews over, but they are still fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an upper-middle class area, and the neighbors were all engineers, Ph.D.'s, accountants, and economists. Why should the black children in the neighborhood get a "leg-up" over high-achieving poor whites in Brooklyn (or wherever) when it comes to getting into a competitive college?

Affirmative action should be based on a combination of better-than-average-grades and family income. This could be accomplished by giving "special chance" points to the top 5% in every school who ALSO has a family income of less than $100,000. In the inner-city and poor rural areas, just about everyone is from a sub-$100,000 family, so the top 5% get the special-chance points. Thus, in a crappy DC public school with 400 graduating seniors, about 20 would get the AA points. In a wealthy Bethesda W school, perhaps only 1 or 2 would (because a high family income would disqualify the others).

In addition, kids qualifying for special-chance points would get the equivalent of tuition of the state's 4-year public university. End result is the exceptional kids from lower-middle-class (or poorer) families get the leg up in admission AND tuition support. Race would not be a factor (although since black families earn less than whites, on average, they would still benefit disproptionately).

OP here, and why would you think I'd be OK with reparations? I'm opposed for the same reason as I am toward sweeping race-biased AA policies.

So then you'd be okay with reparations instead? With the "black children in the neighborhood getting a leg-up" because of reparations instead of affirmative action?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.

I missed the part about "except for college admissions where the color of your skin matters a lot."

Affirmative action is a partial remedy for outrageous racial discrimination, which still exists in housing, education, and employment.

FFS how many handicaps do you want and for how long?

Until the cycle of poverty has been broken for all descendants of slaves.

Until you stop discriminating. The whole education system everywhere in the country is built around minimizing the number of black kids in the best schools. Suburbs are built around minimizing the number of black families in the best neighborhoods.

Before Affirmative Action, college admissions was not a meritocracy. It wasn’t even based on the students, as much as on the patronage, influence, and wealth of their parents. That is still there, but you have all been trained to blame all your disappointments on black people who just won’t in their place.

OP here. First, your bitterness and anger isn't t good for your health.

Second, what you say about college admissions not being a meritocracy before Affirmative Action IS NOT TRUE. It's an excuse you are telling yourself as to why blacks did not get in.

My own (Jewish) parents are prime examples. They were both children of dirt-poor, uneducated immigrants (legal) who excelled in their impoverished Brookyn neighborhood schools. They both scored exceptionally well on the city-wide college entrance exam (my dad's score was #2 out of thousands of kids), and that entitled them to free admission to the City College of New York. (The school had such a fine reputation that it was known as "the poor man's Harvard.") My aunt and uncles all did the same. The school was overwhelmingly Jewish during the 40s when they went (smack in the middle of or immediate aftermath of having their relatives murdered in Europe), and yet, they did not let that attempted extermination of Jews stop them from doing well in school and competing successfully for a spot in CCNY. BLack NYC kids were welcomed to do the same.

This is what I based my OP proposal on, but I changed it to make it fair to poor inner-city blacks (as well as poor rural whites.) Rather than have poor blacks who have been disadvantaged by lower quality schools compete against others who have had advantages of wealthy suburban schools, I did not suggest a broad "top 5% of each state." Instead, I proposed going top 5% school-by-school.

So....you need to face that plenty of poor kids with HORRENDOUS tragedy going on -concurrently! - did go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. "

Martin Luther King, Jr.

I missed the part about "except for college admissions where the color of your skin matters a lot."

Affirmative action is a partial remedy for outrageous racial discrimination, which still exists in housing, education, and employment.

FFS how many handicaps do you want and for how long?

Until the cycle of poverty has been broken for all descendants of slaves.

Until you stop discriminating. The whole education system everywhere in the country is built around minimizing the number of black kids in the best schools. Suburbs are built around minimizing the number of black families in the best neighborhoods.

Before Affirmative Action, college admissions was not a meritocracy. It wasn’t even based on the students, as much as on the patronage, influence, and wealth of their parents. That is still there, but you have all been trained to blame all your disappointments on black people who just won’t in their place.

OP here. First, your bitterness and anger isn't t good for your health.

Second, what you say about college admissions not being a meritocracy before Affirmative Action IS NOT TRUE. It's an excuse you are telling yourself as to why blacks did not get in.

My own (Jewish) parents are prime examples. They were both children of dirt-poor, uneducated immigrants (legal) who excelled in their impoverished Brookyn neighborhood schools. They both scored exceptionally well on the city-wide college entrance exam (my dad's score was #2 out of thousands of kids), and that entitled them to free admission to the City College of New York. (The school had such a fine reputation that it was known as "the poor man's Harvard.") My aunt and uncles all did the same. The school was overwhelmingly Jewish during the 40s when they went (smack in the middle of or immediate aftermath of having their relatives murdered in Europe), and yet, they did not let that attempted extermination of Jews stop them from doing well in school and competing successfully for a spot in CCNY. BLack NYC kids were welcomed to do the same.

This is what I based my OP proposal on, but I changed it to make it fair to poor inner-city blacks (as well as poor rural whites.) Rather than have poor blacks who have been disadvantaged by lower quality schools compete against others who have had advantages of wealthy suburban schools, I did not suggest a broad "top 5% of each state." Instead, I proposed going top 5% school-by-school.

So....you need to face that plenty of poor kids with HORRENDOUS tragedy going on -concurrently! - did go to college.

Correct. There are those that blame others and complain, and those that take self-action to better their lot in life. Those people come in all shapes, sizes, skin colors, and economic backgrounds.

If we’re talking about higher-ed, there should be no academic acceptance preference based on economic background. Admissions offices should not be allowed to see the name or the income or the race or the age or the address (below the county level) of the applicant. They should choose based on grades, test scores, extra-curricular (including jobs), and essay (if applicable). Once the applicant is given an accept rating, then the financial aid process should kick in and their income revealed to that separate department. A full scholarship should be automatically offferred to all accepted applicants with a family income level below a certain level. The money for this would come from diverting all institutional funds currently targeted at athletic scholarships and programs that do not generate significant revenue (yes, many of those sports programs would be shuttered or go back to “club” status). Excess money from the AD from big money programs like football and men’s basketball would also be used and college coach salaries capped by federal law. Funds would also come from federal grants. Those two sources are more than enough to satisfy this need. A graduated income to aid scale would be used above the minimium inciome threshold. Also, pre-tax and tax-free 529 plans would be created at the federal level, allowing for use across all states and territories. This would help those that don’t qualify for aid, but still need some benefit to pay for escalating higher- ed costs. Finally, fed government and military intern (after sophomore year) and a 2 year optional paid residency programs (after graduation) would be offered to low income students in academically excellent standing. This would not only educate those that work hard in high school but also guarantee a job if they work hard in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mixed race with two DC already in college so this issue isn’t all that critical for me but I’ve always been curious about the definition of white students with respect to admissions. The elite colleges are about 50% URM, over-represented minority (Asian American) and international, so that leaves 50% as white. Typically, half of those white identifying students are Jewish so non-jewish whites account for roughly 25% of the student body. Currently about 60% of Americans identify as non-Jewish white.....so isn’t that population actually underrepresented?

Those who like the proportional representation game should be aware: Jewish Americans are < 2% of the population, yet dramatically "over-represented" everywhere -- I'd argue because of cultural values re education, brains, and ambition.

If we need to increase the number's of AA's in elite colleges to match their proportion of the US population, don't we need to DRAMATICALLY reduce the number of Jewish kids as well?

(No, I am NOT recommending this)

Well, affirmative action screwed Jews over, but they are still fine.

So are Asians. The pity party continues for the AAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am mixed race with two DC already in college so this issue isn’t all that critical for me but I’ve always been curious about the definition of white students with respect to admissions. The elite colleges are about 50% URM, over-represented minority (Asian American) and international, so that leaves 50% as white. Typically, half of those white identifying students are Jewish so non-jewish whites account for roughly 25% of the student body. Currently about 60% of Americans identify as non-Jewish white.....so isn’t that population actually underrepresented?

Those who like the proportional representation game should be aware: Jewish Americans are < 2% of the population, yet dramatically "over-represented" everywhere -- I'd argue because of cultural values re education, brains, and ambition.

If we need to increase the number's of AA's in elite colleges to match their proportion of the US population, don't we need to DRAMATICALLY reduce the number of Jewish kids as well?

(No, I am NOT recommending this)

Individually and as a group, Jewish Americans tend to be very intelligent. Genetics play a large part.

[Anonymous]

Am I the only one who sees Sun-Tzuesque strategy all over this thread?

Rabbits, this terrain is not winnable. Abort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who sees Sun-Tzuesque strategy all over this thread?

Rabbits, this terrain is not winnable. Abort.

Not as clever as you wish, little bunny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who sees Sun-Tzuesque strategy all over this thread?

Rabbits, this terrain is not winnable. Abort.

OP here, and I do not understand this comment (or accusation) at all.

May we not discuss a modification to current AA policies, which are unfair to whites (and Asians) - particularly kids in poor white neighborhoods who have excelled in school despite their hardships?

To pull this back on point, my suggestion favors all children - regardless of color - who have competed well against their own cohort. That means that black kids in a poor urban schooll, just as poor whites in urban schools, who excel against those in similar circumstances are rewarded with a leg up. It corrects the highly unfair situation in which a black child of an accountant and a architect gets admitted to a competitive college over a poor white kid with working class parents and.... better grades.

[Anonymous]

OP, what is your intended path of action to lead to permanent change? I view this ultimately as an issue for the courts to decide, not a political forum. I view this - political opinion - terrain to be as useful as swampland.