Let’s just talk VA public colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another factor that impacts the number of applications and quality (UVA had a record 41,000 this year, I believe) completely unrelated to any shrinking demographics statewide is the fact that we are going through a sea change in American thinking about who should go to college. When I graduated from high school, students did a variety of things; there was no assumption that EVERYONE was going on to college, much less a four-year one. Now, just look at the graduation list of Langley or McLean High School. With the exception of a few Mormon missionaries there is a college behind the name of every single student and most are four-year institutions.We now assume - as a society (and this is not the norm in Europe) that all high school graduates will go to college and that everyone needs a four year degree in order to get a good job. So even if demographics fall across a state, the number of high school students applying to college will still rise, and of course, certainly in the expanding urban areas of that state.

That is wrong. Number of overall students applying to college is declining. Kids have been applying to more colleges. Yields generally going down because of that.

'

You're forgetting the international students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The better indicator is probably in-state acceptance rate, which averaged about 45% from 2005-2017 and never dropped below 40%, but hit 38.4% in 2018. So UVA is now at a historically low level, and rates in Nova are also lower. Virginia Tech has never been below 60% in-state admission rate in that period, but is also trending down at 60.2% in 2018. With VT, engineering and the rest of the university diverge in selectivity. W&M averaged about 43% from 2005-2017 and had sub 40% admissions rates in 2009 and 2010, but was at 45% in 2018, so is still selective, but not trending down.

Why would the in-state acceptance rate be a good (or better) indicator? For what? It's merely a reflection of how many applicants the school gets, and not of how difficult it is to get in.
We know VA high school graduates are declining, we know now in-state acceptances and attendances are not declining (in fact slightly increasing); so the obvious conclusion is that overall that the top public VA schools (UVA, W&M, VT) have not gotten more, but less selective at least as far as VA residents are concerned.

The number of applications they get is probably just a factor of how much self-selection is taking place but doesn't reflect the true selectiveness of these in-state schools.

Well, I did say better, not good. Rising GPAs aren't necessarily meaningful due to grade inflation in high school, which is highest in the most affluent schools. In-state acceptance rate is more meaningful than overall acceptance rate (OOS + in-state) for an in-state applicant for obvious reasons. A lot of people cite overall acceptance rate for UVA on this board, but it doesn't apply to most of them and OOS has a very different dynamic and cost structure (which leads to pretty low yield). In-state admission rates have declined to below 40% for UVA very recently, which is historically low. This could of course be due to more unqualified kids applying (which means it isn't reflective of actual selectivity), but it might not be as well. I agree with you that overall colleges are becoming less selective due to the demographic changes.

I'm talking about 2019/ 24% acceptance rate at UVA. You have to keep on top of the publics because parents are realizing they can't afford $80 a year for private and more than half of our students take five years to graduate. Here: https://news.virginia.edu/content/wahoowa-uva-releases-admissions-decisions


Incorrect. You've got everything backwards. UVA received a record of 40,000+ applications this year and only 23.6% of in-state students got in. Internationals and OOS are on the rise (even as UCLA and Berkeley block at 20%). Things are changing very fast at public universities. The GPA, SAT and ACT scores jump every single year at UVA. Last fall the median 75th percentile GPA of an ENTERING (not accepted statistics which are even higher statistics) student was a 4.48 meaning 12.5% had a higher GPA and the next 12.5% had a GPA somewhat below a 4.48. Median ACT score for top 75th percentile of entering students was an astounding 34. And a 1480 SAT. Even the bottom 25th percentile had a 4.16 GPA. So, yes, you had better be in at least the top 10% of your high school class or there is no point in applying.http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp. You can talk grade inflation and SAT inflation until you are blue in the fact but the plain fact is that it is very difficult to get into UVA, especially from NOVA, and especially if you don't have a hook. You have to have the very best scores possible.

No, I was right. You need to check your facts. In-state admission rate was not 23.6%. Preliminary in-state was 36% and as I indicated, has only very recently dropped below 40% as you can see on SCHEV site. About 71% of applicants are from OOS. You also misstate what 75th percentile is. It means 75% of the population are at or below that metric and 25% are above.

I am not the person who was arguing that UVA or some other schools are getting less selective. That was someone else. But I do agree with them that overall, the number of applicants is declining and there is significant inflation in numbers like high school GPA.

https://admission.virginia.edu/unofficial-admission-statistics-uva-class-2023

[/quot[b]e]


You need to use newer stats. Everything is a sea change in college admissions. Yes, UVA had 41,000+ applications this year and a 24% acceptance rate. Minority applications were way up. Why can't you be proud of what your in-state flagship is doing? https://news.virginia.edu/content/wahoowa-uva-releases-admissions-decisions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The better indicator is probably in-state acceptance rate, which averaged about 45% from 2005-2017 and never dropped below 40%, but hit 38.4% in 2018. So UVA is now at a historically low level, and rates in Nova are also lower. Virginia Tech has never been below 60% in-state admission rate in that period, but is also trending down at 60.2% in 2018. With VT, engineering and the rest of the university diverge in selectivity. W&M averaged about 43% from 2005-2017 and had sub 40% admissions rates in 2009 and 2010, but was at 45% in 2018, so is still selective, but not trending down.

Why would the in-state acceptance rate be a good (or better) indicator? For what? It's merely a reflection of how many applicants the school gets, and not of how difficult it is to get in.
We know VA high school graduates are declining, we know now in-state acceptances and attendances are not declining (in fact slightly increasing); so the obvious conclusion is that overall that the top public VA schools (UVA, W&M, VT) have not gotten more, but less selective at least as far as VA residents are concerned.

The number of applications they get is probably just a factor of how much self-selection is taking place but doesn't reflect the true selectiveness of these in-state schools.

Well, I did say better, not good. Rising GPAs aren't necessarily meaningful due to grade inflation in high school, which is highest in the most affluent schools. In-state acceptance rate is more meaningful than overall acceptance rate (OOS + in-state) for an in-state applicant for obvious reasons. A lot of people cite overall acceptance rate for UVA on this board, but it doesn't apply to most of them and OOS has a very different dynamic and cost structure (which leads to pretty low yield). In-state admission rates have declined to below 40% for UVA very recently, which is historically low. This could of course be due to more unqualified kids applying (which means it isn't reflective of actual selectivity), but it might not be as well. I agree with you that overall colleges are becoming less selective due to the demographic changes.

I'm talking about 2019/ 24% acceptance rate at UVA. You have to keep on top of the publics because parents are realizing they can't afford $80 a year for private and more than half of our students take five years to graduate. Here: https://news.virginia.edu/content/wahoowa-uva-releases-admissions-decisions


Incorrect. You've got everything backwards. UVA received a record of 40,000+ applications this year and only 23.6% of in-state students got in. Internationals and OOS are on the rise (even as UCLA and Berkeley block at 20%). Things are changing very fast at public universities. The GPA, SAT and ACT scores jump every single year at UVA. Last fall the median 75th percentile GPA of an ENTERING (not accepted statistics which are even higher statistics) student was a 4.48 meaning 12.5% had a higher GPA and the next 12.5% had a GPA somewhat below a 4.48. Median ACT score for top 75th percentile of entering students was an astounding 34. And a 1480 SAT. Even the bottom 25th percentile had a 4.16 GPA. So, yes, you had better be in at least the top 10% of your high school class or there is no point in applying.http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp. You can talk grade inflation and SAT inflation until you are blue in the fact but the plain fact is that it is very difficult to get into UVA, especially from NOVA, and especially if you don't have a hook. You have to have the very best scores possible.

No, I was right. You need to check your facts. In-state admission rate was not 23.6%. Preliminary in-state was 36% and as I indicated, has only very recently dropped below 40% as you can see on SCHEV site. About 71% of applicants are from OOS. You also misstate what 75th percentile is. It means 75% of the population are at or below that metric and 25% are above.

I am not the person who was arguing that UVA or some other schools are getting less selective. That was someone else. But I do agree with them that overall, the number of applicants is declining and there is significant inflation in numbers like high school GPA.

https://admission.virginia.edu/unofficial-admission-statistics-uva-class-2023

[/quote]


You need to use newer stats. Everything is a sea change in college admissions. Yes, UVA had 41,000+ applications this year and a 24% acceptance rate. Minority applications were way up. Why can't you be proud of what your in-state flagship is doing? https://news.virginia.edu/content/wahoowa-uva-releases-admissions-decisions

Go back and look at the claim above: "VA received a record of 40,000+ applications this year and only 23.6% of[b] in-state students got in." That is incorrect. In the URL you cited, there is this line: "Thirty-six percent of in-state students received offers, compared to 19 percent of non-Virginians." So I was factually correct and it has nothing to do with being "proud of what your in-state flagship is doing".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

That is incorrect. In the Fall of 2018, Black students comprised 7.1% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. In the Fall of 1992, Black students comprised 11.5% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. Black enrollment as a percentage of overall undergraduate enrollment has been declining. Virginia's population is 19.2% Black, so UVA's enrollment percentage is significantly lower.

You may have been thinking of "Persons of Color" rather than Black. But Persons of Color includes Asians. The percentage of Asians at UVA has gone from 8.4% in 1992 to 15% in 2018.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

That is incorrect. In the Fall of 2018, Black students comprised 7.1% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. In the Fall of 1992, Black students comprised 11.5% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. Black enrollment as a percentage of overall undergraduate enrollment has been declining. Virginia's population is 19.2% Black, so UVA's enrollment percentage is significantly lower.

You may have been thinking of "Persons of Color" rather than Black. But Persons of Color includes Asians. The percentage of Asians at UVA has gone from 8.4% in 1992 to 15% in 2018.

And the schools has grown a ton since the 90s. What are the actually numbers of students? I bet the 7% of today is a larger group than the 11% of 1992.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

That is incorrect. In the Fall of 2018, Black students comprised 7.1% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. In the Fall of 1992, Black students comprised 11.5% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. Black enrollment as a percentage of overall undergraduate enrollment has been declining. Virginia's population is 19.2% Black, so UVA's enrollment percentage is significantly lower.

You may have been thinking of "Persons of Color" rather than Black. But Persons of Color includes Asians. The percentage of Asians at UVA has gone from 8.4% in 1992 to 15% in 2018.

And the schools has grown a ton since the 90s. What are the actually numbers of students? I bet the 7% of today is a larger group than the 11% of 1992.

No. 1,427 black undergraduate students at UVA in 1992. 1,133 in 2018.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

That is incorrect. In the Fall of 2018, Black students comprised 7.1% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. In the Fall of 1992, Black students comprised 11.5% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. Black enrollment as a percentage of overall undergraduate enrollment has been declining. Virginia's population is 19.2% Black, so UVA's enrollment percentage is significantly lower.

You may have been thinking of "Persons of Color" rather than Black. But Persons of Color includes Asians. The percentage of Asians at UVA has gone from 8.4% in 1992 to 15% in 2018.

And the schools has grown a ton since the 90s. What are the actually numbers of students? I bet the 7% of today is a larger group than the 11% of 1992.

No. 1,427 black undergraduate students at UVA in 1992. 1,133 in 2018.

Schools like to use the term "persons of color" because it makes them sound more diverse but they don't have to get specific about the breakdown of persons of color. A lot of the increase in "persons of color" is increased Asian enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Asian people are people of color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian people are people of color.

Which is why the PP said "A lot of the increase in "persons of color" is increased Asian enrollment." Colleges can say the percentage of "persons of color" is going up even when black enrollment is going down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Try getting in to one of these places these days.

Which places? There a lot of colleges in the VA system, and only UVA, VT and W&M are "elite" level (whatever that means).

VT is not elite. It may not even be any better than say JMU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Try getting in to one of these places these days.

Which places? There a lot of colleges in the VA system, and only UVA, VT and W&M are "elite" level (whatever that means).

VT is not elite. It may not even be any better than say JMU.

VT is definitely better than JMU, at least in any STEM field. In engineering, it is as good as it gets in VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Try getting in to one of these places these days.

Which places? There a lot of colleges in the VA system, and only UVA, VT and W&M are "elite" level (whatever that means).

VT is not elite. It may not even be any better than say JMU.

UVA, W&M, and VT Engineering (not all of VT) are the top tier in my view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

That is incorrect. In the Fall of 2018, Black students comprised 7.1% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. In the Fall of 1992, Black students comprised 11.5% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. Black enrollment as a percentage of overall undergraduate enrollment has been declining. Virginia's population is 19.2% Black, so UVA's enrollment percentage is significantly lower.

You may have been thinking of "Persons of Color" rather than Black. But Persons of Color includes Asians. The percentage of Asians at UVA has gone from 8.4% in 1992 to 15% in 2018.

And the schools has grown a ton since the 90s. What are the actually numbers of students? I bet the 7% of today is a larger group than the 11% of 1992.

No. 1,427 black undergraduate students at UVA in 1992. 1,133 in 2018.

The UVA Class of 2023 includes 35 percent minority students, an increase from the 34 percent in the Class of 2022. If you include international students, the undergrad class is 40% minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA condones Nazis marching on campus.

You're not worth responding to ,but of course UVA doesn't condone that. I was there that day with Teresa Sullivan. No one at UVA knew they alt.right group was going to try and parade through UVA. No one. And, of course, all the horrible stuff that followed was at a particular park where the alt. righters had a permit to protest the removal of a confederate statue. NO intelligent person at UVA thinks that there is any link. And UVA has done a tremendous amount of "good works" since then to make sure that UVA is black friendly. In fact, in the last two years, black admissions have reached record levels.

That is incorrect. In the Fall of 2018, Black students comprised 7.1% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. In the Fall of 1992, Black students comprised 11.5% of the undergraduate enrollment at UVA. Black enrollment as a percentage of overall undergraduate enrollment has been declining. Virginia's population is 19.2% Black, so UVA's enrollment percentage is significantly lower.

You may have been thinking of "Persons of Color" rather than Black. But Persons of Color includes Asians. The percentage of Asians at UVA has gone from 8.4% in 1992 to 15% in 2018.

And the schools has grown a ton since the 90s. What are the actually numbers of students? I bet the 7% of today is a larger group than the 11% of 1992.

No. 1,427 black undergraduate students at UVA in 1992. 1,133 in 2018.

The UVA Class of 2023 includes 35 percent minority students, an increase from the 34 percent in the Class of 2022. If you include international students, the undergrad class is 40% minority.

Percentage of students that are black is going down.