Let’s just talk VA public colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you are saying the percentage is irrelevant because it is self-reported and the methodology has changed, but then you appeal to the authority of Jim Ryan who cites a slight increase in the percentage from 2018 to 2019.

During the time period when there was no "Multi-race" option, 1992 to 2009, there was a 23% drop in the percentage of students that reported as black. Since that time, 2010 to 2018, there has been an additional 6.5% decline in the percentage of students that report as black.

In 2018, UVA had only 6.5% of first time undergraduates identify as black. Contrast that with the 2010 census (where multi-race was an option), where 19.4% of the population identified as black (2000 was 19.6% and 1990 was 18.8%).

I'm a previous poster who explained that the government changed how data bout race/ethnicity is collected ten years ago. I did not reference the President of UVA. I was merely pointing out that NONE of this data is complete because it relies on self-reporting upon application.

Despite the fact that white people think students of color waltz into every colleges, there is a fear among some in those communities that their race/ethnicity is a negative factor and they don't answer the option question.

If you really understand statistics, you know to look at how data is collected and you know that even the numbers aren't perfect.

Well, perhaps Jim Ryan should also be educated, because he referenced that data. Given your point, what I did is show that 1) the percentage of self-identifying black students is significantly lower than the percentage of self-identifying black residents of the state; and 2) the percentage has been going down over time regardless of the self-identification options available (see above).

Your statement isn't relevant because multi-race is now an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you are saying the percentage is irrelevant because it is self-reported and the methodology has changed, but then you appeal to the authority of Jim Ryan who cites a slight increase in the percentage from 2018 to 2019.

During the time period when there was no "Multi-race" option, 1992 to 2009, there was a 23% drop in the percentage of students that reported as black. Since that time, 2010 to 2018, there has been an additional 6.5% decline in the percentage of students that report as black.

In 2018, UVA had only 6.5% of first time undergraduates identify as black. Contrast that with the 2010 census (where multi-race was an option), where 19.4% of the population identified as black (2000 was 19.6% and 1990 was 18.8%).

I'm a previous poster who explained that the government changed how data bout race/ethnicity is collected ten years ago. I did not reference the President of UVA. I was merely pointing out that NONE of this data is complete because it relies on self-reporting upon application.

Despite the fact that white people think students of color waltz into every colleges, there is a fear among some in those communities that their race/ethnicity is a negative factor and they don't answer the option question.

If you really understand statistics, you know to look at how data is collected and you know that even the numbers aren't perfect.

Well, perhaps Jim Ryan should also be educated, because he referenced that data. Given your point, what I did is show that 1) the percentage of self-identifying black students is significantly lower than the percentage of self-identifying black residents of the state; and 2) the percentage has been going down over time regardless of the self-identification options available (see above).

He didn't reference any SCHEV (which is necessarily dated) data. He reported that the percentage of black students in the class of 2023 is up. So you can argue SCHEV all you want but four or five statistically=-smart posters here are telling you that Ryan is reporting an increase in black students. Also an increase in URM students. And in minority students. And in low-income students. All of this will eventually be reported in SCHEV but not for some time because the Commonwealth has to collect the information from all the schools in Virginia and run the stats. But by all means, continue with your false narrative!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In 1992, it was 11.5%. The percentage has been declining steadily over time while the population statewide has been holding steady on a percentage basis.

One more time: ten years ago, the categories changes. You can't compare numbers from 1992 and today. They were not collected in the same manner.

One more time again: you do not have the real number of black students. You just have the number that reported it.

DP. Also, now to report "black" means having two black parents. There is another new category for identifying one parent as being black. Those students who opt to declare the latter are no longer in the former category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Percentage of students that are black is going down.

When the government changed the rules to allow "multirace" as a category (about 10 years ago), all of the demographics in the population changed. It shouldn't be a surprise that the % of black students dropped.

In addition, colleges can't compel students to provide their race/ethnicity. The data you get is of those who opted to report something.

+1. this is correct. It's also correct that the number of black students (both parents) is up at UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can't you smart people figure out how to use the "quote" feature correctly?[/quote]


Because I'm super busy and the quotes are from wikipedia. I don't have time to strip out the footnote numbers. I would think it obvious that it's from wikipedia to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you are saying the percentage is irrelevant because it is self-reported and the methodology has changed, but then you appeal to the authority of Jim Ryan who cites a slight increase in the percentage from 2018 to 2019.

During the time period when there was no "Multi-race" option, 1992 to 2009, there was a 23% drop in the percentage of students that reported as black. Since that time, 2010 to 2018, there has been an additional 6.5% decline in the percentage of students that report as black.

In 2018, UVA had only 6.5% of first time undergraduates identify as black. Contrast that with the 2010 census (where multi-race was an option), where 19.4% of the population identified as black (2000 was 19.6% and 1990 was 18.8%).

I'm a previous poster who explained that the government changed how data bout race/ethnicity is collected ten years ago. I did not reference the President of UVA. I was merely pointing out that NONE of this data is complete because it relies on self-reporting upon application.

Despite the fact that white people think students of color waltz into every colleges, there is a fear among some in those communities that their race/ethnicity is a negative factor and they don't answer the option question.

If you really understand statistics, you know to look at how data is collected and you know that even the numbers aren't perfect.

Well, perhaps Jim Ryan should also be educated, because he referenced that data. Given your point, what I did is show that 1) the percentage of self-identifying black students is significantly lower than the percentage of self-identifying black residents of the state; and 2) the percentage has been going down over time regardless of the self-identification options available (see above).

He didn't reference any SCHEV (which is necessarily dated) data. He reported that the percentage of black students in the class of 2023 is up. So you can argue SCHEV all you want but four or five statistically=-smart posters here are telling you that Ryan is reporting an increase in black students. Also an increase in URM students. And in minority students. And in low-income students. All of this will eventually be reported in SCHEV but not for some time because the Commonwealth has to collect the information from all the schools in Virginia and run the stats. But by all means, continue with your false narrative!

You are missing the point. He is referencing data on the number and percentage of black students that is subject to the same limitations that were cited to me. One, it is self-reported (UVA enrollment and census data). Two, there is the option to report as "multi-race".

The closest thing to a "false narrative" here is to associate the increase in the number and percentage of "persons of color" with an expansion in educational opportunities at UVA for blacks. The increase in "persons of color" is actually a result of a significant increase in the number and percentage of groups like Asians. The percentage of blacks (self reported) has been declining for some time. It declined during the period when there was no multi-race option, and it has declined during the period when there has been a multi-race option. I do not dispute that there may have been an increase from 2018 to 2019, and that data is not yet in SCHEV.

I am not anti-UVA. I am just pro-fact, and more particularly, being careful with interpretation of data points that are presented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Percentage of students that are black is going down.

When the government changed the rules to allow "multirace" as a category (about 10 years ago), all of the demographics in the population changed. It shouldn't be a surprise that the % of black students dropped.

In addition, colleges can't compel students to provide their race/ethnicity. The data you get is of those who opted to report something.

+1. this is correct. It's also correct that the number of black students (both parents) is up at UVA.

You didn't read the previous posts carefully. It may be possible that the number of black students increased for the one year from 2018 to 2019. Set that aside. What the long term data shows is the number has declined, and this is separate from the multi-race reporting option. The number of self-identified blacks in the incoming class dropped from 332, or 12.4% of the class in 1993, to 282, or 8.7% in 2009, the last year before the multi-race reporting option was introduced. Note that class size increased during that time period and the percentage of self-reported blacks in the state remained constant at about 19.5%. A similar decline occurred after the introduction of the multi-race option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you are saying the percentage is irrelevant because it is self-reported and the methodology has changed, but then you appeal to the authority of Jim Ryan who cites a slight increase in the percentage from 2018 to 2019.

During the time period when there was no "Multi-race" option, 1992 to 2009, there was a 23% drop in the percentage of students that reported as black. Since that time, 2010 to 2018, there has been an additional 6.5% decline in the percentage of students that report as black.

In 2018, UVA had only 6.5% of first time undergraduates identify as black. Contrast that with the 2010 census (where multi-race was an option), where 19.4% of the population identified as black (2000 was 19.6% and 1990 was 18.8%).

I'm a previous poster who explained that the government changed how data bout race/ethnicity is collected ten years ago. I did not reference the President of UVA. I was merely pointing out that NONE of this data is complete because it relies on self-reporting upon application.

Despite the fact that white people think students of color waltz into every colleges, there is a fear among some in those communities that their race/ethnicity is a negative factor and they don't answer the option question.

If you really understand statistics, you know to look at how data is collected and you know that even the numbers aren't perfect.

Well, perhaps Jim Ryan should also be educated, because he referenced that data. Given your point, what I did is show that 1) the percentage of self-identifying black students is significantly lower than the percentage of self-identifying black residents of the state; and 2) the percentage has been going down over time regardless of the self-identification options available (see above).

Your statement isn't relevant because multi-race is now an option.

Does anyone read?

[Anonymous]

So to the person who keeps this going who says they aren’t “anti-UVA,” what is your goal here?

1992 is before UVA promised to keep 2/3 Virginians. Did you think of that? It was before other schools in Virginia diversified their academic offerings (VCU was primarily an art school then, for example). So much has changed. Who TF cares about a number from 1992?

Again, what is your goal here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So to the person who keeps this going who says they aren’t “anti-UVA,” what is your goal here?

1992 is before UVA promised to keep 2/3 Virginians. Did you think of that? It was before other schools in Virginia diversified their academic offerings (VCU was primarily an art school then, for example). So much has changed. Who TF cares about a number from 1992?

Again, what is your goal here?[/quote]


+1. Sometimes people on this site just have to keep hammering away even if proven wrong. If it involves UVA, it is usually a VTech student or UMD student (rivals). I was at the convocation last week. Jim Ryan told thousands present that the percentage of black students has gone up. He also said the number of first-generation students were up. That SAT scores were the best ever. That number of low-income students were up and that number of Pell Grants students were up. That's good enough for me. SCHEV is valuable but uses old stats or what stats it had back in 1992. The SCHEV results for class of 2023 won't come out until late Nov. or early Dec.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So to the person who keeps this going who says they aren’t “anti-UVA,” what is your goal here?

1992 is before UVA promised to keep 2/3 Virginians. Did you think of that? It was before other schools in Virginia diversified their academic offerings (VCU was primarily an art school then, for example). So much has changed. Who TF cares about a number from 1992?

Again, what is your goal here?

Truth. And nothing you said above is true or relevant to the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So to the person who keeps this going who says they aren’t “anti-UVA,” what is your goal here?

1992 is before UVA promised to keep 2/3 Virginians. Did you think of that? It was before other schools in Virginia diversified their academic offerings (VCU was primarily an art school then, for example). So much has changed. Who TF cares about a number from 1992?

Again, what is your goal here?[/quote]


+1. Sometimes people on this site just have to keep hammering away even if proven wrong. If it involves UVA, it is usually a VTech student or UMD student (rivals). I was at the convocation last week. Jim Ryan told thousands present that the percentage of black students has gone up. He also said the number of first-generation students were up. That SAT scores were the best ever. That number of low-income students were up and that number of Pell Grants students were up. That's good enough for me. SCHEV is valuable but uses old stats or what stats it had back in 1992. The SCHEV results for class of 2023 won't come out until late Nov. or early Dec.

I haven't been proven wrong. The facts presented all support my point. The best you can do is throw out red herrings.

I'll state my point once again. People on this site present the "people of color" stat for UVA as if it is becoming more open to disadvantage groups. But this is not the case for blacks. The percentage of blacks (self reported) at UVA has declined significantly over time, regardless of the options available. There may be an uptick in the 2019 data, but the trend over time has been significantly down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So to the person who keeps this going who says they aren’t “anti-UVA,” what is your goal here?

1992 is before UVA promised to keep 2/3 Virginians. Did you think of that? It was before other schools in Virginia diversified their academic offerings (VCU was primarily an art school then, for example). So much has changed. Who TF cares about a number from 1992?

Again, what is your goal here?[/quote]


+1. Sometimes people on this site just have to keep hammering away even if proven wrong. If it involves UVA, it is usually a VTech student or UMD student (rivals). I was at the convocation last week. Jim Ryan told thousands present that the percentage of black students has gone up. He also said the number of first-generation students were up. That SAT scores were the best ever. That number of low-income students were up and that number of Pell Grants students were up. That's good enough for me. SCHEV is valuable but uses old stats or what stats it had back in 1992. The SCHEV results for class of 2023 won't come out until late Nov. or early Dec.

I haven't been proven wrong. The facts presented all support my point. The best you can do is throw out red herrings.

I'll state my point once again. People on this site present the "people of color" stat for UVA as if it is becoming more open to disadvantage groups. But this is not the case for blacks. The percentage of blacks (self reported) at UVA has declined significantly over time, regardless of the options available. There may be an uptick in the 2019 data, but the trend over time has been significantly down.

Perhaps Ryan is aware of this and it does matter to him, which is why he mentioned it. It will be interesting to see how it develops over time. But again, the trend has been down for some time while the percentage of blacks (self reported) in the state has remained steady, and far above the level of black enrollment at UVA.

[Anonymous]

Once again, an interesting thread has been taken over by someone with an obsession.

[Anonymous]

One of the key reasons for living in nova for many privileged white people is to obtain UVA admission for their offspring. Those who fail to achieve this goal start lashing out and looking for someone to blame.