Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the "weeded out" Duke undergrads who dropped pre-med. Wow you guys are harsh! Honestly, I struggled with depression in college and was unhappy at Duke and was even more miserable in pre med courses and did poorly. I was so unaccustomed to flailing so miserably and it seemed like everyone around me seemed so brilliant and was happy and doing awesome (although that wasn't true!). If I could do it all over again I would have majored in something less rigorous at Duke, tried to graduate in 3 years, and then taken my science courses at an easier school. I think sometimes we have different capacities at different times in our lives. For my own child, my advice would be that a job is a job and not who you are, no matter how prestigious or lucrative it is. My family pushed me so hard and made everything so much worse. Even now I think my family perceives me as a failure for going to such a prestigious college and failing to go to medical school. That's hurtful to me, honestly. I went to a top law school on scholarship and graduated with no debt and have a great job now. Everything turned out really well, and yet I suppose I will always wonder what if...

So, you couldn't do premed courses because those courses are "harder" @ Duke? Maybe med school wasn't meant to be.

Exactly. Med schools are going to notice if you do poorly in your science classes - which could very well have happened in the community college classes as well. You can’t hide a lack of science aptitude on the intense MCAT’s either.
Why have regret?

I knew more than a few students who realized they could not compete in science classes at Duke and took them at less rigorous schools. I don't think anyone could tell you the level of competition and rigor at Duke vs. some random school are the same. I am jealous of their savvy, not regretful. I eventually realized I needed to make things work for ME, which is how I made some good choices and positioned myself much better than most of the posters on this board. You have to learn from mistakes.

But I think it's silly to think our system rewards only aptitude- it rewards savvy and parents who can pay $$$$.

Yes, yes, PP, we’re all sure that the only reason you didn’t do well in premed courses is that they are *so* much harder at Duke. And that you are much, much more successful than the rest of us.

It’s good that you don’t have a chip on your shoulder about med school, though.

Pot meet kettle?

You guys, your state schools were awesome. I’m sure you will go far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the "weeded out" Duke undergrads who dropped pre-med. Wow you guys are harsh! Honestly, I struggled with depression in college and was unhappy at Duke and was even more miserable in pre med courses and did poorly. I was so unaccustomed to flailing so miserably and it seemed like everyone around me seemed so brilliant and was happy and doing awesome (although that wasn't true!). If I could do it all over again I would have majored in something less rigorous at Duke, tried to graduate in 3 years, and then taken my science courses at an easier school. I think sometimes we have different capacities at different times in our lives. For my own child, my advice would be that a job is a job and not who you are, no matter how prestigious or lucrative it is. My family pushed me so hard and made everything so much worse. Even now I think my family perceives me as a failure for going to such a prestigious college and failing to go to medical school. That's hurtful to me, honestly. I went to a top law school on scholarship and graduated with no debt and have a great job now. Everything turned out really well, and yet I suppose I will always wonder what if...

So, you couldn't do premed courses because those courses are "harder" @ Duke? Maybe med school wasn't meant to be.

Exactly. Med schools are going to notice if you do poorly in your science classes - which could very well have happened in the community college classes as well. You can’t hide a lack of science aptitude on the intense MCAT’s either.
Why have regret?

I knew more than a few students who realized they could not compete in science classes at Duke and took them at less rigorous schools. I don't think anyone could tell you the level of competition and rigor at Duke vs. some random school are the same. I am jealous of their savvy, not regretful. I eventually realized I needed to make things work for ME, which is how I made some good choices and positioned myself much better than most of the posters on this board. You have to learn from mistakes.

But I think it's silly to think our system rewards only aptitude- it rewards savvy and parents who can pay $$$$.

Yes, yes, PP, we’re all sure that the only reason you didn’t do well in premed courses is that they are *so* much harder at Duke. And that you are much, much more successful than the rest of us.

It’s good that you don’t have a chip on your shoulder about med school, though.

Pot meet kettle?

You guys, your state schools were awesome. I’m sure you will go far.

No need to put down state school families pp. That's not very nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the "weeded out" Duke undergrads who dropped pre-med. Wow you guys are harsh! Honestly, I struggled with depression in college and was unhappy at Duke and was even more miserable in pre med courses and did poorly. I was so unaccustomed to flailing so miserably and it seemed like everyone around me seemed so brilliant and was happy and doing awesome (although that wasn't true!). If I could do it all over again I would have majored in something less rigorous at Duke, tried to graduate in 3 years, and then taken my science courses at an easier school. I think sometimes we have different capacities at different times in our lives. For my own child, my advice would be that a job is a job and not who you are, no matter how prestigious or lucrative it is. My family pushed me so hard and made everything so much worse. Even now I think my family perceives me as a failure for going to such a prestigious college and failing to go to medical school. That's hurtful to me, honestly. I went to a top law school on scholarship and graduated with no debt and have a great job now. Everything turned out really well, and yet I suppose I will always wonder what if...

So, you couldn't do premed courses because those courses are "harder" @ Duke? Maybe med school wasn't meant to be.

Exactly. Med schools are going to notice if you do poorly in your science classes - which could very well have happened in the community college classes as well. You can’t hide a lack of science aptitude on the intense MCAT’s either.
Why have regret?

I knew more than a few students who realized they could not compete in science classes at Duke and took them at less rigorous schools. I don't think anyone could tell you the level of competition and rigor at Duke vs. some random school are the same. I am jealous of their savvy, not regretful. I eventually realized I needed to make things work for ME, which is how I made some good choices and positioned myself much better than most of the posters on this board. You have to learn from mistakes.

But I think it's silly to think our system rewards only aptitude- it rewards savvy and parents who can pay $$$$.

Yes, yes, PP, we’re all sure that the only reason you didn’t do well in premed courses is that they are *so* much harder at Duke. And that you are much, much more successful than the rest of us.

It’s good that you don’t have a chip on your shoulder about med school, though.

Pot meet kettle?

You guys, your state schools were awesome. I’m sure you will go far.

Well, I’m a doctor, and my kid’s in medical school. And you’re...not. So there’s that.

[Anonymous]

Er, the average grade at Duke is an A, 3.5. Grade inflation much? Must be real “hard”.

At Duke, everyone is a winner!

[Anonymous]

There’s one thing that no one is addressing. Foreign MD diplomas ( except for a few Canadian schools) are not automatically given equivalency in the USA. The exams are tedious and very long. Only after passing them can a foreign MD holder apply for residency (again).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s one thing that no one is addressing. Foreign MD diplomas ( except for a few Canadian schools) are not automatically given equivalency in the USA. The exams are tedious and very long. Only after passing them can a foreign MD holder apply for residency (again).

Has been addressed above--pointed out more than once that foreign med school grad have to pass the USMLEs to qualify to apply for a residency in the US.

Canadian med school grads take the same USMLEs as US med school students. Canada requires them for a medical license.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know about MD foreign students, but in most stem programs foreign students come in with at least two years of grad school preparation before starting their PhD’s from scratch. This accounts for much of the “brilliance” of foreign students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know about MD foreign students, but in most stem programs foreign students come in with at least two years of grad school preparation before starting their PhD’s from scratch. This accounts for much of the “brilliance” of foreign students.

Probably true that many of the foreign MDs coming into residencies have already been practicing doctors for a while. They have to do the USMLEs first, which they probably don't have time to study for until they finish their MD program in their country.

[Anonymous]

Prosecutors used the fugitive status of 16 medical professionals who have fled the U.S. to keep Dr. Rajendra Bothra jailed while he awaits trial in a nearly $500 million conspiracy, one of the largest health care fraud cases in U.S. history.

The medical professionals who have fled for overseas destinations including India, Jordan, Pakistan and Egypt in recent years have two things in common: foreign ties and big bank accounts that have financed flights from justice.

Only the best...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2018/12/12/feds-cope-rash-rich-doctors-fleeing-u-s-amid-opioid-crisis/2275474002/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Er, the average grade at Duke is an A, 3.5. Grade inflation much? Must be real “hard”.

At Duke, everyone is a winner!

Lol maybe they use a 5.0 scale

[Anonymous]

The MCAT is just like the SAT- it is not an equalizer. If you can pay for MCAT test study programs or classes, if you can get tutoring, if you have the time to study and take practice tests because you only work PT (or not at all) and/or your only job is volunteering...makes it a bit easier to get a better score.

Also, you cant diagnose unless you have all the information, which requires talking to your patient and asking critical questions. You do want a physician with soft skills- do they notice when someone is being evasive? Are they able to put people at ease? Are their patients open with them and don't fear judgement or being dismissed for their concerns? Most people, if dismissed by a doctor just once, will not bring up their concerns for fear of being dismissed or thought of as stupid/inconvenient.

[Anonymous]

The MCAT is not an equalizer between those those who can afford tutoring and those who can't.

What it is an equalizer for is between people with a lower GPA (perhaps because they went to a school with grade deflation) and those with a higher GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The MCAT is just like the SAT- it is not an equalizer. If you can pay for MCAT test study programs or classes, if you can get tutoring, if you have the time to study and take practice tests because you only work PT (or not at all) and/or your only job is volunteering...makes it a bit easier to get a better score.

Also, you cant diagnose unless you have all the information, which requires talking to your patient and asking critical questions. You do want a physician with soft skills- do they notice when someone is being evasive? Are they able to put people at ease? Are their patients open with them and don't fear judgement or being dismissed for their concerns? Most people, if dismissed by a doctor just once, will not bring up their concerns for fear of being dismissed or thought of as stupid/inconvenient.

The MCAT is not ‘just like the SAT’. The MCAT is brutal. Sure, if you have 10 years to study and do nothing else maybe you can master it, but basically your performance depends on your intelligence and how rigorous your education has been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Er, the average grade at Duke is an A, 3.5. Grade inflation much? Must be real “hard”.

At Duke, everyone is a winner!

Lol maybe they use a 5.0 scale

At schools where everyone is a good student it’s not unreasonable that there would be a lot of high grades. Everyone is working.

I have a friend who got into Princeton as a legacy , but he wasn’t especially qualified, and they were not kind to him. He definitely brought up the rear of the class with B’s and C’s. He’s pretty humble about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Er, the average grade at Duke is an A, 3.5. Grade inflation much? Must be real “hard”.

At Duke, everyone is a winner!

I worked in admissions at a very competitive graduate program (think top tier law or medical school) and most transcripts we got had the student's %ile in their undergrad on it. For schools like Harvard, it was printed right next to the GPA on the official transcript. That %ile was what we looked at.