Why do top US universities weed out most pre-med kids & then we import foreign MDs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Foreign doctors yuck

About 1 in 4 of the doctors in the US overall were trained in other countries.

They are overrepresented on the frontline vs COVID-19.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are needed to serve in underserved areas. American born, American trained MDs do not want to live and work in rural Indiana, no matter how much you pay them.
I don’t know much about it, but there are only certain places where a J-1 visa will be accepted, so many foreign MDs are forced into these rural areas for several years before they can go to the city.

I don't think this has happened by design as your statement would imply.

But, US med schools graduate enough MDs to fill only 75% of the available residencies. Foreign medical graduates fill the rest. Unless they are truly outstanding, they tend to get the least desirable residencies by specialty, geography, and institution.

It is true that many US med school graduates eschew jobs in more rural areas and in flyover areas. But according to the latest Medscape doctor compensation report, the states with the highest doctor compensation are in those areas. Oklahoma was number one.

https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-overview-6011286?src=WNL_physrep_190410_comp2019&uac=53250MN&impID=1933305&faf=1

Funny, I just read today that we fail to match about 1600 American trained MDs with residencies each year; already passed Boards, etc. and instead give US government funded residency slots to foreigners. Doesn’t make much sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have mostly been impressed by the "bedside manner" of immigrant doctors I have had. And their knowledge.

The one mishap I can recall was an urgent care doctor named Omar. I went in with a fever and what turned out to be a 70/40 bp with a MRSA cellulitis infection (I had had them roughly 1x/per year for at least 10 years).

So I was in a daze to begin with, and this guy was stunningly gorgeous (and wearing high-fashion jacket, shirt, and pocket square). Usually with the MRSA I would be prescribed either sulfa or clindomyxin and there would always be a discussion as to what I had been treated with in the past. This guy whipped out an Rx for Keflex. It puzzled me bt, like I said, dazed and smitten.

It was definitely the wrong Rx and I went back in the next day and got the right one.

But I think his underlying flaw was that he was so goddamned gorgeous and I think knew it.

I assume you are a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO one of the largest factors is that medical school (like law school) does not screen for the factors that make for a good practitioner and over relies on grades and test scores. This tends to lead to a glut of medical students with astronomical scores and low social skills / emotional IQ. I don’t care as much about the role of foreign trained physicians as the fact that the structure of premedical and medical education weeds out kids who would be truly terrific doctors, particularly in primary care / peds / geriatrics (where the need is highest and “soft skills” are hugely important. I just finished a non-medical masters program at a top medical school. I was horrified at the utter lack of social skills amongst the so called best and brightest and it wasn’t just the international students by a long shot. Truly, it was so bad I worried for my future medical care. I think something has to change!

To some extent, DO programs teach a more holistic approach and focus more on bedside manner.

[Anonymous]

It’s at least more holistic than law schools though I guess lawyers don’t have to have good personalities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO one of the largest factors is that medical school (like law school) does not screen for the factors that make for a good practitioner and over relies on grades and test scores. This tends to lead to a glut of medical students with astronomical scores and low social skills / emotional IQ. I don’t care as much about the role of foreign trained physicians as the fact that the structure of premedical and medical education weeds out kids who would be truly terrific doctors, particularly in primary care / peds / geriatrics (where the need is highest and “soft skills” are hugely important. I just finished a non-medical masters program at a top medical school. I was horrified at the utter lack of social skills amongst the so called best and brightest and it wasn’t just the international students by a long shot. Truly, it was so bad I worried for my future medical care. I think something has to change!

Sorry, but I’d take a skilled clinician over “soft skills” any day with regards to my health and the health of my family. I could care less if my doctor was Mr. or Ms. super friendly in school if their grades were subpar to the introvert from wherever but that’s sharp as a tack.

Soft skills are a bonus not a necessity.

b/c they become skilled clinicians right out the door
care is mainly protocols, at least here in the US, not much freedom in treating the patient, they just treat the disease! for this take this pill and for side effects take this handful of pills.

[Anonymous]

Because the AMA has significant control over the number of accredited medical schools and the number of seats they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the AMA has significant control over the number of accredited medical schools and the number of seats they have.

Which explains why the U.S. has by far the highest paid doctors in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are needed to serve in underserved areas. American born, American trained MDs do not want to live and work in rural Indiana, no matter how much you pay them.
I don’t know much about it, but there are only certain places where a J-1 visa will be accepted, so many foreign MDs are forced into these rural areas for several years before they can go to the city.

I don't think this has happened by design as your statement would imply.

But, US med schools graduate enough MDs to fill only 75% of the available residencies. Foreign medical graduates fill the rest. Unless they are truly outstanding, they tend to get the least desirable residencies by specialty, geography, and institution.

It is true that many US med school graduates eschew jobs in more rural areas and in flyover areas. But according to the latest Medscape doctor compensation report, the states with the highest doctor compensation are in those areas. Oklahoma was number one.

https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019-compensation-overview-6011286?src=WNL_physrep_190410_comp2019&uac=53250MN&impID=1933305&faf=1

Funny, I just read today that we fail to match about 1600 American trained MDs with residencies each year; already passed Boards, etc. and instead give US government funded residency slots to foreigners. Doesn’t make much sense.

No, it doesn't. Although, having lived in a rural area and was born in a poor urban area, I can tell you that the rural and poor end up with the most foreign born doctors because most educated americans don't want to live in those places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the AMA has significant control over the number of accredited medical schools and the number of seats they have.

Which explains why the U.S. has by far the highest paid doctors in the world.

This is the bottomline. The doctor lobby is very powerful. They do not want too many doctors and therefore push down wages. Any American kid in med school would love to get that salary. The US needs to double the number of residencies and fill them with whoever is best qualified - US born or otherwise. We need more doctors. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the AMA has significant control over the number of accredited medical schools and the number of seats they have.

Which explains why the U.S. has by far the highest paid doctors in the world.

I don't understand the logic- what's the point of tightly controlling the number of medical school graduates per year in order to retain their profession's high compensation, when a good chunk (did someone upthread say 25%?) of the residency spots are left open for foreign medical graduates to fill? Why not educate Americans to fill close to 100% of the residency spots?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the AMA has significant control over the number of accredited medical schools and the number of seats they have.

Which explains why the U.S. has by far the highest paid doctors in the world.

I don't understand the logic- what's the point of tightly controlling the number of medical school graduates per year in order to retain their profession's high compensation, when a good chunk (did someone upthread say 25%?) of the residency spots are left open for foreign medical graduates to fill? Why not educate Americans to fill close to 100% of the residency spots?

Why do they need foreigners to fill those slots? To have someone work inner city and rural areas because no one else wants to. If there are no doctors working in inner city/rural areas, a large chunk of voters will start people screaming for more doctors and the gig will be up.

Why do foreigners work in those areas while US doctors don't? Foreign-born doctors are allowed to come here to study on an Exchange visitor visa, unlike typical grad students who come here on a student visa. This visa requires them to leave the country for 2 years after the purpose of their exchange visit (i.e. Residency) has ended. But, there's an exception. They do not have to leave the country if, you guessed it, they work in under-served areas such as inner cities and rural areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the AMA has significant control over the number of accredited medical schools and the number of seats they have.

Which explains why the U.S. has by far the highest paid doctors in the world.

I don't understand the logic- what's the point of tightly controlling the number of medical school graduates per year in order to retain their profession's high compensation, when a good chunk (did someone upthread say 25%?) of the residency spots are left open for foreign medical graduates to fill? Why not educate Americans to fill close to 100% of the residency spots?

Why do they need foreigners to fill those slots? To have someone work inner city and rural areas because no one else wants to. If there are no doctors working in inner city/rural areas, a large chunk of voters will start people screaming for more doctors and the gig will be up.

Why do foreigners work in those areas while US doctors don't? Foreign-born doctors are allowed to come here to study on an Exchange visitor visa, unlike typical grad students who come here on a student visa. This visa requires them to leave the country for 2 years after the purpose of their exchange visit (i.e. Residency) has ended. But, there's an exception. They do not have to leave the country if, you guessed it, they work in under-served areas such as inner cities and rural areas.

It's a cartel, and it's smart.

[Anonymous]

OP, how is your DC doing after failing premed classes?

[Anonymous]

I don't know OP. My kid is starting his medical school this fall and I am just glad he finally made it (this far). It's been a long and tough process but it also ensures he will not drop out. This is what he truly wants to do.