How do I handle this? Teacher gave kid F for questionable reasons. (Long)

[Anonymous]

I actually get the points ding on the "threat" issue. (Seems kind of tween/teen silliness-- but whatever, it is safety related.)

BUT-- losing points for burping and thus for clean up is not appropriate because she would not ALLOW him to clean up. It's "excessive" for the "crime."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually get the points ding on the "threat" issue. (Seems kind of tween/teen silliness-- but whatever, it is safety related.)

BUT-- losing points for burping and thus for clean up is not appropriate because she would not ALLOW him to clean up. It's "excessive" for the "crime."

It's her class and she didn't deem it excessive. Remember how we started on page 1 with OP's son doing NOTHING wrong? Now we're debating if what he did do wrong was wrong enough for the grade to suffer.

OP - your son is a reflection of you. You rationalize away any valid points and still think he could do nothing wrong. He picks it up from you and has the same pattern. You're doing him huge disservice - you will not be there in college, grad school and work place. Being able to function in a group without feeling like you have to defy authority and taunt someone - is golden. Nobody likes a jerk, wants to be around a jerk or will give him unlimited chances and endless benefit of the doubt. Except his mom. and even she shouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually get the points ding on the "threat" issue. (Seems kind of tween/teen silliness-- but whatever, it is safety related.)

BUT-- losing points for burping and thus for clean up is not appropriate because she would not ALLOW him to clean up. It's "excessive" for the "crime."

When OP's son is an adult, openly disrespecting his boss like he did to this teacher will tend to get him fired (and thus losing income) pretty quickly, so I think this was actually a really good object lesson for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually get the points ding on the "threat" issue. (Seems kind of tween/teen silliness-- but whatever, it is safety related.)

BUT-- losing points for burping and thus for clean up is not appropriate because she would not ALLOW him to clean up. It's "excessive" for the "crime."

When OP's son is an adult, openly disrespecting his boss like he did to this teacher will tend to get him fired (and thus losing income) pretty quickly, so I think this was actually a really good object lesson for him.

Correct. OP, either learn how to teach your child how to respect others or expect him to struggle a lot more when you aren't there to fight his battles for him.

[Anonymous]

OP here. To be clear: I never assume my kid did no wrong. He is not being told hes the victim here. He HAS been told that if the grade didn't make sense to him then he needs to try to understand the why behind it. He couldn't figure out what got him F territory. We discussed. I asked specific questions. He didn't remember anything egregious that seemed like an F. Turns out his teacher talked to him once during class to say "it's not appropriate to joke about hitting someone if they don't cut the pancake right". Teacher said she knew he wasn't serious but had to say something because his comment was not okay. (Yep, I agree, and understand that's where she deducted a few points for teamwork.) Telling funny stories was not mentioned at all nor did she say he was otherwise disruptive during the class. (I asked for detail.) I do think she overreacted to a 6th grade boy burping, and her consequence of choice was an immediate 20% loss of his grade. I don't believe it's appropriate to say a kid got a zero on something you wouldn't let the kid do. (Not just for my kid, but for any kid.)

I did not challenge his grade but I did ask for explanation. She claimed the first entry (F) was an input error and the second entry (D+) was the corrected grade. I told her I appreciated her explanation. She made clear she didn't think any of it was a "big deal" and wouldn't want my kid or us to have that impression. Okay, whatever she says.

My kid will be talking to me about exactly why he has a D+ and I will indeed hold him accountable (haven't done so yet because I've been out of town since Sunday). I certainly won't be telling him that he's been horribly wronged or the teacher is stupid or unfair or just doesn't get it or whatever other excuse could be made. I'll be telling him this is the way it goes and there are specific reasons behind her grades. It's fine if he thinks it was excessive. Good learning opportunity that knowing your audience matters and even "minor" misbehavior matters, sometimes more than you might expect. But he will get the message that the teacher was not the only one in the equation - it was his behavior to which she was reacting.

All this said: I do plan to talk to the guidance counselor about the FACS teacher's grading approach and ask whether that's aligned with the school's expectations. I am NOT asking for a grade change. My kid will never have this teacher again. But having heard from other parents at the beginning of the year "oh, she's so awful" but later hearing from a school admin "she's not a teacher we get a lot of complaints about", I do want to bring it up. Not because it will have an impact on my kid (he is blissfully out of there now) but because I think parents have some responsibility to raise questions or concerns even if their kid is no longer going to have the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To be clear: I never assume my kid did no wrong. He is not being told hes the victim here. He HAS been told that if the grade didn't make sense to him then he needs to try to understand the why behind it. He couldn't figure out what got him F territory. We discussed. I asked specific questions. He didn't remember anything egregious that seemed like an F. Turns out his teacher talked to him once during class to say "it's not appropriate to joke about hitting someone if they don't cut the pancake right". Teacher said she knew he wasn't serious but had to say something because his comment was not okay. (Yep, I agree, and understand that's where she deducted a few points for teamwork.) Telling funny stories was not mentioned at all nor did she say he was otherwise disruptive during the class. (I asked for detail.) I do think she overreacted to a 6th grade boy burping, and her consequence of choice was an immediate 20% loss of his grade. I don't believe it's appropriate to say a kid got a zero on something you wouldn't let the kid do. (Not just for my kid, but for any kid.)

I did not challenge his grade but I did ask for explanation. She claimed the first entry (F) was an input error and the second entry (D+) was the corrected grade. I told her I appreciated her explanation. She made clear she didn't think any of it was a "big deal" and wouldn't want my kid or us to have that impression. Okay, whatever she says.

My kid will be talking to me about exactly why he has a D+ and I will indeed hold him accountable (haven't done so yet because I've been out of town since Sunday). I certainly won't be telling him that he's been horribly wronged or the teacher is stupid or unfair or just doesn't get it or whatever other excuse could be made. I'll be telling him this is the way it goes and there are specific reasons behind her grades. It's fine if he thinks it was excessive. Good learning opportunity that knowing your audience matters and even "minor" misbehavior matters, sometimes more than you might expect. But he will get the message that the teacher was not the only one in the equation - it was his behavior to which she was reacting.

All this said: I do plan to talk to the guidance counselor about the FACS teacher's grading approach and ask whether that's aligned with the school's expectations. I am NOT asking for a grade change. My kid will never have this teacher again. But having heard from other parents at the beginning of the year "oh, she's so awful" but later hearing from a school admin "she's not a teacher we get a lot of complaints about", I do want to bring it up. Not because it will have an impact on my kid (he is blissfully out of there now) but because I think parents have some responsibility to raise questions or concerns even if their kid is no longer going to have the teacher.

Your kid has zero recollection of being forced to sit out the last five minutes of the lab? Or are you just glossing over the fact that he lied to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Okay, I see the point about being the second to burp. I'll be sure to work with my child so I can ensure he never again engages in Defiant & Disrespectful Burping (which was surely his goal).

I would bet, though, that if Sarah Sweetpea burped immediately after her lab mate did the same, she wouldn't have been told to sit for the last five minutes and lost 20% of the grade. This is a good lesson for my kid, though, in that he is annoying and therefore will be punished more aggressively.

Op you just don't get it. I teach high schoolers so maybe I can explain.

First of all, we have 120 students and our own lives. We do not have time to single out individual students and pick on them just because. Please get that idea out of your head and out of your kid's. If I correct bad behavior one day t doesn't mean I don't like you. I can see you three hours later in a different context and be completely friendly and effusive. But HIS bad behavior impacts everyone else's ability to learn. THEY are my concern. Your kid's attention seeking stuff makes it hard for 20+ other kids to have a good classroom experience and yes, that is punishable. I may like your kid just fine. I don't like
him enough to let his need to be center of attention ruin all the other kids' learning time. He's not that special.

Of course he couldn't earn the clean up points. He was consistently, after repeated warnings to himself and other kids, engaging in inappropriate behavior. He was punished accordingly- get out of the way so the other kids can DO the work. He made that choice. Not the teacher. Him.

Finally- you obviously only care about your son. That's normal and expected and fine. Put yourself in this teacher's shoes. She has to manage 22-30 rowdy middle schoolers and have them complete a lab. She is going to have to make decisions accordingly. That is classroom management and it's probably 75% of "good" teaching. YOU ARE NOT IN THE ROOM. It is nonsensical for you to Monday morning quarterback instructional decisions she had to make when she was in there. It is really rude and obnoxious for you to be offering your judgment on how reasonable or acceptable her management that day was when you weren't there and you aren't responsible for getting these kids to meet certain benchmarks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Okay, I see the point about being the second to burp. I'll be sure to work with my child so I can ensure he never again engages in Defiant & Disrespectful Burping (which was surely his goal).

I would bet, though, that if Sarah Sweetpea burped immediately after her lab mate did the same, she wouldn't have been told to sit for the last five minutes and lost 20% of the grade. This is a good lesson for my kid, though, in that he is annoying and therefore will be punished more aggressively.

Op you just don't get it. I teach high schoolers so maybe I can explain.

First of all, we have 120 students and our own lives. We do not have time to single out individual students and pick on them just because. Please get that idea out of your head and out of your kid's. If I correct bad behavior one day t doesn't mean I don't like you. I can see you three hours later in a different context and be completely friendly and effusive. But HIS bad behavior impacts everyone else's ability to learn. THEY are my concern. Your kid's attention seeking stuff makes it hard for 20+ other kids to have a good classroom experience and yes, that is punishable. I may like your kid just fine. I don't like
him enough to let his need to be center of attention ruin all the other kids' learning time. He's not that special.

Of course he couldn't earn the clean up points. He was consistently, after repeated warnings to himself and other kids, engaging in inappropriate behavior. He was punished accordingly- get out of the way so the other kids can DO the work. He made that choice. Not the teacher. Him.

Finally- you obviously only care about your son. That's normal and expected and fine. Put yourself in this teacher's shoes. She has to manage 22-30 rowdy middle schoolers and have them complete a lab. She is going to have to make decisions accordingly. That is classroom management and it's probably 75% of "good" teaching. YOU ARE NOT IN THE ROOM. It is nonsensical for you to Monday morning quarterback instructional decisions she had to make when she was in there. It is really rude and obnoxious for you to be offering your judgment on how reasonable or acceptable her management that day was when you weren't there and you aren't responsible for getting these kids to meet certain benchmarks.

I also have a kid with ADHD, and I really hope he has more teachers like you as he goes through school. Too many of his teachers seem content to let him skate by without holding him accountable for him behavior, and it makes it really hard for me at home to convince him that eventually people will hold him accountable and that he needs to figure out how to manage his ADHD before then.

[Anonymous]

I read your last post, OP. Very glad my kid won't be in class with yours. I think you should read that last teacher comment every morning.

I appreciate it isn't easy to have ADHD and all that entails, but it also isn't easy to be a kid without ADHD in a class room with a kid like yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To be clear: I never assume my kid did no wrong. He is not being told hes the victim here. He HAS been told that if the grade didn't make sense to him then he needs to try to understand the why behind it. He couldn't figure out what got him F territory. We discussed. I asked specific questions. He didn't remember anything egregious that seemed like an F. Turns out his teacher talked to him once during class to say "it's not appropriate to joke about hitting someone if they don't cut the pancake right". Teacher said she knew he wasn't serious but had to say something because his comment was not okay. (Yep, I agree, and understand that's where she deducted a few points for teamwork.) Telling funny stories was not mentioned at all nor did she say he was otherwise disruptive during the class. (I asked for detail.) I do think she overreacted to a 6th grade boy burping, and her consequence of choice was an immediate 20% loss of his grade. I don't believe it's appropriate to say a kid got a zero on something you wouldn't let the kid do. (Not just for my kid, but for any kid.)

I did not challenge his grade but I did ask for explanation. She claimed the first entry (F) was an input error and the second entry (D+) was the corrected grade. I told her I appreciated her explanation. She made clear she didn't think any of it was a "big deal" and wouldn't want my kid or us to have that impression. Okay, whatever she says.

My kid will be talking to me about exactly why he has a D+ and I will indeed hold him accountable (haven't done so yet because I've been out of town since Sunday). I certainly won't be telling him that he's been horribly wronged or the teacher is stupid or unfair or just doesn't get it or whatever other excuse could be made. I'll be telling him this is the way it goes and there are specific reasons behind her grades. It's fine if he thinks it was excessive. Good learning opportunity that knowing your audience matters and even "minor" misbehavior matters, sometimes more than you might expect. But he will get the message that the teacher was not the only one in the equation - it was his behavior to which she was reacting.

All this said: I do plan to talk to the guidance counselor about the FACS teacher's grading approach and ask whether that's aligned with the school's expectations. I am NOT asking for a grade change. My kid will never have this teacher again. But having heard from other parents at the beginning of the year "oh, she's so awful" but later hearing from a school admin "she's not a teacher we get a lot of complaints about", I do want to bring it up. Not because it will have an impact on my kid (he is blissfully out of there now) but because I think parents have some responsibility to raise questions or concerns even if their kid is no longer going to have the teacher.

Your kid has zero recollection of being forced to sit out the last five minutes of the lab? Or are you just glossing over the fact that he lied to you?

OP: I am largely very sympathetic to you. You inquired about a grade and found out that she basically made it up. (Or is an idiot, whichever. Between the "I randomly entered points deducted v points earned AND getting that number wrong, I personally think your original intuition that this was just vindictive was completely correct. Out of curiosity, was -8 exactly what he needed to tip his grade to a B or would -7 have done it? Genuinely curious.) BUT: Is there an explanation for the fact he didn't mention he had to sit out clean up entirely? Because that's VERY different than your original post where he said the teacher didn't really give him any warnings/interact with him about his behavior AND you said that he specifically mentioned he cleaned his materials. (I can understand him not mentioning an offhand comment not to say XYZ if it didn't seem serious in context, but not mentioning that he had a 5 minute TO?) In short, unless you think there's an explanation other than he lied (and maybe there is), it sounds like he blatantly lied to you... I would be more worried about that aspect. (I totally agree with you that the punishment for a burp shouldn't be your grade maxing out at 80%, but that's a different question.)

[Anonymous]

The burp was worth the dedication because it a) came after she told him to quit telling "funny stories" during a mastery assignment and b) was done in deliberate reaction to her telling another student not to do it. That's defiance and she was absolutely within bounds to deduct points for it.

Op I have taken kids tests and given them a 0 for talking repeatedly during test time despite warnings. Your son is lucky his teacher didn't do that. She gave you very solid reasons why his behavior lost him points. He was distracting and disrespectful during a summative assessment. You and he both need to take the lesson here. It is a valuable one. Quit imaginining dueling scenarios where your son is a girl and wasn't punished and accept he acted out and didn't get away with it.

[Anonymous]

The deduction*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guarantee your kid is pathologically lying to you.

I have a kid with lds and just sat through a contentious IEP meeting called because of teachers lying about how they called my dc out in front of the class. Teacher admits she misinterpreted the situation, for no known reason, and threatened my kid with being sent to the principal. Kid broke down in class while teacher and aid ignored dc. When parents got involved they lied and said dc was fine and was having fun with friends. Uhhh no.

I've seen so much deceit and dishonesty in practically every IEP meeting I've been in. It isn't coming from me or my dc.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]