How to fit school days into Gov Larry Hogan's ridiculous policy on school start and stop dates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Howard County last day June 14th
Frederick County last day June 15th
PG County last day June 15th
Baltimore County last day June 15th
Anne Arundel County last day June 15th
Baltimore City last day June 14th

Don't feel like looking any more up. I would assume most of the others don't have Jewish or Muslim holidays for days off and may get out a little earlier.

Prince George's County for 2017-18 only has to have 178 days, has 180 days, and has February 9 (a professional day), April 5 (a spring break day), and April 6 (a spring break day) as make-up days.

Tell me again why the governor's rigid schedule, overriding the local authorities, is good for education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What calendar are you looking at? There's no day off for Columbus Day.

I tossed that in looking for a 15th state-mandated closure date. The 2016 public school calendar only had 12 required closure dates. Not sure where they get 15 state-mandated closure date. Substitute Columbus Day for whatever the 15th mandated closure date that MCPS is using.

Consider finding that out first?

Did you notice that I did look up the 2016 calendar? I Googled and found a list of 10 school dates for state employees and 12 required school dates for the 2016 calendar. After about 6-7 hits, I stopped looking when I got to 14. I'm doing this in between running tasks on a computer and didn't have time to keep reading the Google hits, so I just sent the post. Sorry.

I allocated 15 closure dates and still came up with 184 possible school days. If you move Columbus Day to any other day of the school year, it will still come to 184 possible school days which more than covers the 180 days required plus 3 required snow days and allows the 7 days for Christmas-New Years and a 5 day spring break both of which are not mandated, but expected by the public.

It fits all of the state requirements, but doesn't fit the teachers's unions external requirements which are not state mandated.

[Anonymous]

If Anthony Brown had won and this was his calendar proposal everybody would be singing his praises and about how he cares about Maryland small businesses in Ocean City etc.

[Anonymous]

MCPS is already proposing a schedule option with no professional days during the school year. So I don't understand why you keep saying that the professional days are the problem.

Also, are you seriously proposing putting professional days during Christmas and New Year's? Is that when your office holds training sessions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: If Anthony Brown had won and this was his calendar proposal everybody would be singing his praises and about how he cares about Maryland small businesses in Ocean City etc.

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't seem that crazy. In NY, we started school the Wednesday after labor day and then finished in late June (22 or 23 ish) and that included a week off in February for 'mid-winter recess'. Since they don't have that down here, it doesn't seem crazy.

Also the case where I went to school in NJ. They were still able to fit in the -80 Days.

OK, then you propose a calendar. MCPS gave you all of the information you need for it.

I wasn’t saying that I want to propose a calendar. I was just pointing out that other districts/states make this work.

First of all, it’s the BOE’s job to do that. They’ve been able to do it for years and should be able to make it work this time, without sending out a whiny email complaining about the new ‘challenge’ due to Hogan.

Several people have given examples of possibilities and the BOE has given it’s own options. Pick one and go with it.

What’s the point of an email like the one they sent out other than to make it political.

Not only political but the BOE is making it seem like you either have to be for Jewish holidays or for Spring Break. But then again, I think that was their point to start the complaints.

You’re right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is already proposing a schedule option with no professional days during the school year. So I don't understand why you keep saying that the professional days are the problem.

Also, are you seriously proposing putting professional days during Christmas and New Year's? Is that when your office holds training sessions?

No, professional days can be the week before school starts. However, others are also saying that the teachers need days for grading, for cleaning their rooms, and for additional non-student activities that are non-training days. Teachers can take a day during the week between Christmas and New Year's (not on the actual days) or Spring Break if they need additional non-student days for such activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is already proposing a schedule option with no professional days during the school year. So I don't understand why you keep saying that the professional days are the problem.

Also, are you seriously proposing putting professional days during Christmas and New Year's? Is that when your office holds training sessions?

No, professional days can be the week before school starts. However, others are also saying that the teachers need days for grading, for cleaning their rooms, and for additional non-student activities that are non-training days. Teachers can take a day during the week between Christmas and New Year's (not on the actual days) or Spring Break if they need additional non-student days for such activities.

Teachers may or may not need days for such things, but they are already not in two of the four proposed calendar options. So they're not relevant to the discussion. If they're already not in the calendar options, you can't solve the calendar problems by removing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not only political but the BOE is making it seem like you either have to be for Jewish holidays or for Spring Break. But then again, I think that was their point to start the complaints.

You’re right.

OK, so propose an alternative that preserves spring break and closing for the Jewish high holidays. It's easy to say, "MCPS IS DOING IT WRONG!!!" It's not so easy to propose a better alternative.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to express my frustration by never spending a $ in OC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to express my frustration by never spending a $ in OC!

It's gross there anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers have the week between Christmas and New Years and the week of Spring break to have professional in service days in addition to summer. There are 261 non-weekend days in a year. Most of us get 10 federal holidays a year and do not get a week off at Christmas and a week off in March. Accounting for the 9 federal holidays (July 4 is not in teh school year), that leaves 252 weekdays a year. Take off 180 days for school and there are still 71 week days. The teachers can have their professional days on those 71 week days. That's typically 5 days at Christmas, 5 days for Spring break and 61 days spread across the summer. They need to handle their in-service days on those days. And if the issue is the pay, then the union needs to negotiate an appropriate payment level to compensate the teachers. However, that is a discussion outside the scheduling of the school year. There are 185 days between 4 Sep 2018 and 14 Jun 2019 that are not any of the federal holidays, the week between Christmas and New Year and one week for spring break. There should not be a problem fitting in 180 days of school. There's even some leeway if you need snow days (up to 5).

False, according to the following MCPS e-mail snippet:

Next year, we will have even fewer days to work with than in years past to accommodate our instructional traditions, such as having 184 instructional days, and our non-instructional traditions, such as a full week for Spring Break. As we design next year’s calendar, we start with several requirements from the State:

September 4–June 14: the permissible time frame for instruction
180: the minimum number of instructional days required
15: the number of State mandated days that schools must be closed
3: the number of snow make-up days required at the end of the year (before June 14)

Once the calendar accounts for these State required elements, a total of six days remain that can be programmed for other, non-required educational or operational priorities, such as Spring Break or instructional days above the state minimum of 180. How to allocate these days among our multiple calendar priorities is our challenge.

QED. You have been defeated.

I beg to differ. Here's the 2018-2019 calendar with notes

MONTH SCH.DAYS TOTAL NOTES Sep 19 19 Start 9/4 Oct 22 41 Off 10/8 Columbus Day Nov 20 61 Off 11/22-23 Thanksgiving Dec 15 76 Winter break 12/24-1/1 Jan 21 97 Start 1/2, off MLK day 1/21 Feb 19 116 Off 2/18, President's Day Ma 16 132 5 days off for Spring break Apr 20 152 2 Days off for Easter (Good Friday, Easter Monday) May 22 174 Off 5/27 for Memorial Day Jun 10 184 School ends 6/14

This includes 15 days off (Columbus Day, 2 Thanksgiving days, 7 days for Christmas/New Years, MLK day, President's day, 2 days for Easter, Memorial Day).

There are 184 possible days of instruction including 4 days at the end of the school year to handle snow days without compromising holidays.

What the school district doesn't want to do it give up teacher paid days without students. However, while you need to have a winter break and spring break for students, employees aren't required to get those breaks. Take a teacher in-service day the week between Christmas and New Years and another one during the Spring break week. They can take one or more days the week before school opens.

2 Days off for Easter? but it's actually 6, and you said 5. I am confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers have the week between Christmas and New Years and the week of Spring break to have professional in service days in addition to summer. There are 261 non-weekend days in a year. Most of us get 10 federal holidays a year and do not get a week off at Christmas and a week off in March. Accounting for the 9 federal holidays (July 4 is not in teh school year), that leaves 252 weekdays a year. Take off 180 days for school and there are still 71 week days. The teachers can have their professional days on those 71 week days. That's typically 5 days at Christmas, 5 days for Spring break and 61 days spread across the summer. They need to handle their in-service days on those days. And if the issue is the pay, then the union needs to negotiate an appropriate payment level to compensate the teachers. However, that is a discussion outside the scheduling of the school year. There are 185 days between 4 Sep 2018 and 14 Jun 2019 that are not any of the federal holidays, the week between Christmas and New Year and one week for spring break. There should not be a problem fitting in 180 days of school. There's even some leeway if you need snow days (up to 5).

False, according to the following MCPS e-mail snippet:

Next year, we will have even fewer days to work with than in years past to accommodate our instructional traditions, such as having 184 instructional days, and our non-instructional traditions, such as a full week for Spring Break. As we design next year’s calendar, we start with several requirements from the State:

September 4–June 14: the permissible time frame for instruction
180: the minimum number of instructional days required
15: the number of State mandated days that schools must be closed
3: the number of snow make-up days required at the end of the year (before June 14)

Once the calendar accounts for these State required elements, a total of six days remain that can be programmed for other, non-required educational or operational priorities, such as Spring Break or instructional days above the state minimum of 180. How to allocate these days among our multiple calendar priorities is our challenge.

QED. You have been defeated.

I beg to differ. Here's the 2018-2019 calendar with notes

MONTH SCH.DAYS TOTAL NOTES Sep 19 19 Start 9/4 Oct 22 41 Off 10/8 Columbus Day Nov 20 61 Off 11/22-23 Thanksgiving Dec 15 76 Winter break 12/24-1/1 Jan 21 97 Start 1/2, off MLK day 1/21 Feb 19 116 Off 2/18, President's Day Ma 16 132 5 days off for Spring break Apr 20 152 2 Days off for Easter (Good Friday, Easter Monday) May 22 174 Off 5/27 for Memorial Day Jun 10 184 School ends 6/14

This includes 15 days off (Columbus Day, 2 Thanksgiving days, 7 days for Christmas/New Years, MLK day, President's day, 2 days for Easter, Memorial Day).

There are 184 possible days of instruction including 4 days at the end of the school year to handle snow days without compromising holidays.

What the school district doesn't want to do it give up teacher paid days without students. However, while you need to have a winter break and spring break for students, employees aren't required to get those breaks. Take a teacher in-service day the week between Christmas and New Years and another one during the Spring break week. They can take one or more days the week before school opens.

2 Days off for Easter? but it's actually 6, and you said 5. I am confused.

Yes you are confused. You are conflating Easter with Spring break which may or may not be the same time The state mandates 2 days for Easter, Good Friday and Easter Monday. I also included a separate Spring break which several posters were pouting had to be kept. That gives 7 days.If You want to put Spring Break at Easter then yes, you get 6 days (adding Easter Monday) and then have 185 possible school days instead of 184.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to express my frustration by never spending a $ in OC!

It's gross there anyways.

I know...

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine why anyone would celebrate Columbus day.