How to fit school days into Gov Larry Hogan's ridiculous policy on school start and stop dates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

This is classic misdirection. That may be how the union wants to describe it. This allows them to advertise higher hourly salaries which is just a feel-good technique. The point is that there is NO other industry that uses this type of misdirection to describe payment. You are salaried and exempt. Your work period covers the first day of school to the last day of school plus any professional days that are included outside of the student school year. You are paid a salary that covers that time. You are paid evenly and that covers holidays. Your pay does not go down over holidays when you are not at school. What you are describing as unpaid holidays is just accounting legerdemain. As I pointed out, if everyone did that, then most people who work a standard 260 day schedule, would get to bump their hourly rate up by dividing their salary by 250 instead of 260 and claim that they are unpaid for 10 federal holidays. It doesn't work that way in any other industry.

Exempt employees hourly rates are for information only. Unless you have billable hours for some reason to another entity, your hourly rate is merely a convenience of accounting between you and your employer. Contractors or consultants who bill clients by the hour have an hourly rate. Professionals who bill customers by the hour use an hourly rate. In those situations, the employee does not have a standard exempt salary that is stable over time. Those individuals have paychecks that vary week to week by the amount of time that they bill. They do not record billable hours on holidays and their salaries and paychecks account for that. If they work on the day, they get paid, if they don't work on that day, they don't get paid and they're paychecks show that. Non-exempt employees don't get paid when they don't work. If they work on a regular holiday, they are supposed to get shift deferential and increased pay for hours worked on the holiday. If a teacher works on a holiday, their pay is not adjusted and they do not get shift deferential for hours worked. In fact they get no additional compensation if they work or do not work. That's part of being an exempt employee. And that is why you have a salary that is paid across a holiday that does not get lowered when you do not work on the day. And that is why you get paid holidays.

I don't believe that is true. Teachers are not salaried/exempt, but subject to a negotiated agreement. If a teacher works fewer than the required hours and does not submit for time off, that teacher is docked hourly rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

This is classic misdirection. That may be how the union wants to describe it. This allows them to advertise higher hourly salaries which is just a feel-good technique. The point is that there is NO other industry that uses this type of misdirection to describe payment. You are salaried and exempt. Your work period covers the first day of school to the last day of school plus any professional days that are included outside of the student school year. You are paid a salary that covers that time. You are paid evenly and that covers holidays. Your pay does not go down over holidays when you are not at school. What you are describing as unpaid holidays is just accounting legerdemain. As I pointed out, if everyone did that, then most people who work a standard 260 day schedule, would get to bump their hourly rate up by dividing their salary by 250 instead of 260 and claim that they are unpaid for 10 federal holidays. It doesn't work that way in any other industry.

Exempt employees hourly rates are for information only. Unless you have billable hours for some reason to another entity, your hourly rate is merely a convenience of accounting between you and your employer. Contractors or consultants who bill clients by the hour have an hourly rate. Professionals who bill customers by the hour use an hourly rate. In those situations, the employee does not have a standard exempt salary that is stable over time. Those individuals have paychecks that vary week to week by the amount of time that they bill. They do not record billable hours on holidays and their salaries and paychecks account for that. If they work on the day, they get paid, if they don't work on that day, they don't get paid and they're paychecks show that. Non-exempt employees don't get paid when they don't work. If they work on a regular holiday, they are supposed to get shift deferential and increased pay for hours worked on the holiday. If a teacher works on a holiday, their pay is not adjusted and they do not get shift deferential for hours worked. In fact they get no additional compensation if they work or do not work. That's part of being an exempt employee. And that is why you have a salary that is paid across a holiday that does not get lowered when you do not work on the day. And that is why you get paid holidays.

I don't believe that is true. Teachers are not salaried/exempt, but subject to a negotiated agreement. If a teacher works fewer than the required hours and does not submit for time off, that teacher is docked hourly rates.

Teachers are most definitely exempt employees unless they are substitute or part-time employees or contractual, e.g. they are only hired for one class or one set of duties. Standard teachers are explicitly exempted in the FLSA.
https://nmpsia.com/docs/The%20FLSA.docx

4. Do you have to pay certified employees (teachers) the minimum wage for extracurricular activities (coaching, class sponsor, organization or club sponsor) if it is a requirement of the school district that certified employees perform such activities?
No. Teachers are specifically exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act if it is a duty that requires their professional expertise. (See page 6 of WH Publication 1391, 553.32 (c).)

5. Do you have to pay certified employees (teachers) the minimum wage for extra duties required by the school district such as ticket taking, timekeeping, scorekeeping, security, etc.?
No, unless such employee’s time in such activity exceeded 20 percent of their total hours for that specific work week. If the employee exceeds the 20 percent, compensation would be computed as described in Question #26.
However, if the teacher gets a salary of $250 or more per week, he or she is exempt from the FLSA if at least 51 percent of his or her time is spent teaching. ( See pages 5 & 6 of WH Publication 1391, 553.30 (c) (5) and 553.32 (c).)

As for holidays, turn it the around the other way. You are expected to be off the federal holidays. If you were to work, would you get additional pay? Regular rate? Or Shift differential for working outside the standard shift? If it doesn't matter and your pay is the same if you work or don't work, it is considered a paid holiday that is incorporated as part of your salary. By not not counting it in the 195 hours, you are only artificially inflating the hourly wage, by dividing the salary by 215 for payment of the salary but dividing by 195 for calculation of the hourly rate. If you are not paid extra when you actually work on the day, then it is a paid holiday. Non-exempt employees who work on a holiday, must, by law, be paid extra. As I said, the way the teacher's unions calculate hourly rates and holidays is completely unique to their industry and counters the way the rest of the work-force calculate paid holidays and hourly rates. It's misleading and disingenuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

The other 20 days are the days that teacher don't work and ARE paid for. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a part of this calculation. I'm sure it's just one idiot but it does teachers a disservice when they play this victim card ("we don't even get paid for Thanksgiving"). Being a teachers is one of the hardest most underappreciated jobs there is. You turn people against you by saying silly stuff like this.

Sorry folks, please read the actual contract. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving or any other days beyond the 195. They do get paid very well. They do have outstanding benefits. They are compensated very well in MCPS. There can be no question about that.

It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

Here you go again. You continue to lose credibility with this union-babble. Unfortunately, you don't have the ability to see how ridiculous you sound. You obviously have not worked in a job outside of government.

NP here.
I don't care if teachers get paid or not, we're all SALARIED so stop the bean-counting.
What I do care about is that my kid is getting a consistent education, a good education and is in school 5 days a week UNLESS there is a very good reason. Stop the random 3 day weekends unless they are affiliated with a national, not federal, holiday or a major holiday or winter break or spring break.
BTW, teachers are public servants, but whomever is posting here sure doesn't sound like that. They are really out there to get theirs, and we all know they really enjoy their MOndays off. Who wouldn't want a Monday off without kids, clients, work? Yet here we are, forcing 1000s of families to pay for backup care or take Mondays off so public servant teachers can have a paid or unpaid brouhaha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

This is classic misdirection. That may be how the union wants to describe it. This allows them to advertise higher hourly salaries which is just a feel-good technique. The point is that there is NO other industry that uses this type of misdirection to describe payment. You are salaried and exempt. Your work period covers the first day of school to the last day of school plus any professional days that are included outside of the student school year. You are paid a salary that covers that time. You are paid evenly and that covers holidays. Your pay does not go down over holidays when you are not at school. What you are describing as unpaid holidays is just accounting legerdemain. As I pointed out, if everyone did that, then most people who work a standard 260 day schedule, would get to bump their hourly rate up by dividing their salary by 250 instead of 260 and claim that they are unpaid for 10 federal holidays. It doesn't work that way in any other industry.

Exempt employees hourly rates are for information only. Unless you have billable hours for some reason to another entity, your hourly rate is merely a convenience of accounting between you and your employer. Contractors or consultants who bill clients by the hour have an hourly rate. Professionals who bill customers by the hour use an hourly rate. In those situations, the employee does not have a standard exempt salary that is stable over time. Those individuals have paychecks that vary week to week by the amount of time that they bill. They do not record billable hours on holidays and their salaries and paychecks account for that. If they work on the day, they get paid, if they don't work on that day, they don't get paid and they're paychecks show that. Non-exempt employees don't get paid when they don't work. If they work on a regular holiday, they are supposed to get shift deferential and increased pay for hours worked on the holiday. If a teacher works on a holiday, their pay is not adjusted and they do not get shift deferential for hours worked. In fact they get no additional compensation if they work or do not work. That's part of being an exempt employee. And that is why you have a salary that is paid across a holiday that does not get lowered when you do not work on the day. And that is why you get paid holidays.

I don't believe that is true. Teachers are not salaried/exempt, but subject to a negotiated agreement. If a teacher works fewer than the required hours and does not submit for time off, that teacher is docked hourly rates.

seems ripe for timecard and OT fraud. quite prevalent in gov't jobs paid for by sucker taxpayers .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

The other 20 days are the days that teacher don't work and ARE paid for. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a part of this calculation. I'm sure it's just one idiot but it does teachers a disservice when they play this victim card ("we don't even get paid for Thanksgiving"). Being a teachers is one of the hardest most underappreciated jobs there is. You turn people against you by saying silly stuff like this.

Sorry folks, please read the actual contract. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving or any other days beyond the 195. They do get paid very well. They do have outstanding benefits. They are compensated very well in MCPS. There can be no question about that.

It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

Here you go again. You continue to lose credibility with this union-babble. Unfortunately, you don't have the ability to see how ridiculous you sound. You obviously have not worked in a job outside of government.

NP here.
I don't care if teachers get paid or not, we're all SALARIED so stop the bean-counting.
What I do care about is that my kid is getting a consistent education, a good education and is in school 5 days a week UNLESS there is a very good reason. Stop the random 3 day weekends unless they are affiliated with a national, not federal, holiday or a major holiday or winter break or spring break.
BTW, teachers are public servants, but whomever is posting here sure doesn't sound like that. They are really out there to get theirs, and we all know they really enjoy their MOndays off. Who wouldn't want a Monday off without kids, clients, work? Yet here we are, forcing 1000s of families to pay for backup care or take Mondays off so public servant teachers can have a paid or unpaid brouhaha.

It's, "whoever," not, "whomever."