How to fit school days into Gov Larry Hogan's ridiculous policy on school start and stop dates

[Anonymous]

What is a supporting services worker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is a supporting services worker?

When we were in school, I think he was called the janitor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is a supporting services worker?

Supporting services is everybody who isn't a teacher or an administrator. It includes transportation employees (i.e., bus drivers), food service employees, building service employees, paraeducators, maintenance employees, security employees, media and technology employees, and office employees (i.e., school secretaries).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Now I'm confused. [b]what days off during non-summer months are not paid for teachers? I assumed all days off during the school year are paid[i]. I also agree with the various PP's this has deliberately gotten political and parties are trying to make trouble with religious groups to fight Hogan over the school calendar puzzle. Yet professional days and Columbus/Martin Luther/President's days are not on the table.

You assumed incorrectly. Teachers are paid for 195 work days. This year there are 182 instructional days which is why preservice week was extended to 8 days. There are two professional days this year--January 26th and June 13th. Then for the additional 3 days of payment teachers have to document 24 hours of time spent working outside the duty day, but the documented work has to be related to the School Improvement Plan. One of those 3 days can be used for planning within the school day (either two half days or one full day) but teachers must get a sub and write sub plans. That brings them to 195 paid days. No holidays or other days off are paid.

I love how on this board when someone refutes commonly held assumptions with actual facts that there are crickets. I guess it just doesn't fit peoples' strongly held assumptions that teachers have many paid days off and that they're just greedy/lazy and sit around eating catered lunches during professional days. Interesting.

It's because you are so full of it that nobody wants to get near your posts. Anyone can go out and read your contract. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/associationrelations/refresh2014/MCEA%20Contract%20FY15-FY17%20.pdf. Here's one highlight:


.

Yup. Read the contract. Those "holidays" are unpaid days off for teachers.
I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Now I'm confused. [b]what days off during non-summer months are not paid for teachers? I assumed all days off during the school year are paid[i]. I also agree with the various PP's this has deliberately gotten political and parties are trying to make trouble with religious groups to fight Hogan over the school calendar puzzle. Yet professional days and Columbus/Martin Luther/President's days are not on the table.

You assumed incorrectly. Teachers are paid for 195 work days. This year there are 182 instructional days which is why preservice week was extended to 8 days. There are two professional days this year--January 26th and June 13th. Then for the additional 3 days of payment teachers have to document 24 hours of time spent working outside the duty day, but the documented work has to be related to the School Improvement Plan. One of those 3 days can be used for planning within the school day (either two half days or one full day) but teachers must get a sub and write sub plans. That brings them to 195 paid days. No holidays or other days off are paid.

I love how on this board when someone refutes commonly held assumptions with actual facts that there are crickets. I guess it just doesn't fit peoples' strongly held assumptions that teachers have many paid days off and that they're just greedy/lazy and sit around eating catered lunches during professional days. Interesting.

It's because you are so full of it that nobody wants to get near your posts. Anyone can go out and read your contract. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/associationrelations/refresh2014/MCEA%20Contract%20FY15-FY17%20.pdf. Here's one highlight:


.

Yup. Read the contract. Those "holidays" are unpaid days off for teachers.

I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.


So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.

So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Now I'm confused. [b]what days off during non-summer months are not paid for teachers? I assumed all days off during the school year are paid[i]. I also agree with the various PP's this has deliberately gotten political and parties are trying to make trouble with religious groups to fight Hogan over the school calendar puzzle. Yet professional days and Columbus/Martin Luther/President's days are not on the table.

You assumed incorrectly. Teachers are paid for 195 work days. This year there are 182 instructional days which is why preservice week was extended to 8 days. There are two professional days this year--January 26th and June 13th. Then for the additional 3 days of payment teachers have to document 24 hours of time spent working outside the duty day, but the documented work has to be related to the School Improvement Plan. One of those 3 days can be used for planning within the school day (either two half days or one full day) but teachers must get a sub and write sub plans. That brings them to 195 paid days. No holidays or other days off are paid.

I love how on this board when someone refutes commonly held assumptions with actual facts that there are crickets. I guess it just doesn't fit peoples' strongly held assumptions that teachers have many paid days off and that they're just greedy/lazy and sit around eating catered lunches during professional days. Interesting.

It's because you are so full of it that nobody wants to get near your posts. Anyone can go out and read your contract. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/associationrelations/refresh2014/MCEA%20Contract%20FY15-FY17%20.pdf. Here's one highlight:


.

Yup. Read the contract. Those "holidays" are unpaid days off for teachers.

I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.

So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

We have now entered the world of union-babble. How about this - Teachers don't get paid when they inhale air. They only get paid for exhaling. They divide the annual salary by the number of times the average teacher exhales in a day (22,340) then multiply that over a 10 month period. Then divide it into 2 week paychecks. See they DON'T get paid for any time that they inhale. This is as insane as you trying to convince everyone that you don't get paid for for Thanksgiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is holiday pay for Presidents Day? That is ridiculous. It's not like making someone work on a holiday that they would otherwise be celebrating.

What I think is ridiculous, personally, is all of the posters on DCUM talking about the simple solutions that the BoE could immediately implement, without knowing anything about the actual facts involved.

get rid of time & a half for fluff holidays. what a joke!
I've worked at 4 Fortune 500 companies and always worked those days, regular pay. sometimes I take my MCPS kids to work w me too on those 3 fluff and 2 teacher joke-off days. The running joke is they need to pay me more so my kids can go private already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is holiday pay for Presidents Day? That is ridiculous. It's not like making someone work on a holiday that they would otherwise be celebrating.

What I think is ridiculous, personally, is all of the posters on DCUM talking about the simple solutions that the BoE could immediately implement, without knowing anything about the actual facts involved.

get rid of time & a half for fluff holidays. what a joke!
I've worked at 4 Fortune 500 companies and always worked those days, regular pay. sometimes I take my MCPS kids to work w me too on those 3 fluff and 2 teacher joke-off days. The running joke is they need to pay me more so my kids can go private already.

What are you smoking and can I have some?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.

So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.

So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

The other 20 days are the days that teacher don't work and ARE paid for. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a part of this calculation. I'm sure it's just one idiot but it does teachers a disservice when they play this victim card ("we don't even get paid for Thanksgiving"). Being a teachers is one of the hardest most underappreciated jobs there is. You turn people against you by saying silly stuff like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

That's a ridiculous way to count. Basically you have 195 regular work days and 20 paid holidays that are rolled into your salary. That's why your salary is divided by 215 and not 195. If it were truly unpaid, then your salary would be divided by 195 and you would received a prorated 9/10 salary for a 2 week pay period that included a day off. Your pay check would be less for any week that included one of those 20 days, but it isn't.

Your calculation is like someone who works a typical 260 work day salary and claiming their hourly rate is based on 250 days with 10 unpaid federal holidays. That's not how salaried individuals in any other industry calculate their pay, so it is disingenuous to try and claim that you have have a higher hourly rate computed for your salary with unpaid holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

That's a ridiculous way to count. Basically you have 195 regular work days and 20 paid holidays that are rolled into your salary. That's why your salary is divided by 215 and not 195. If it were truly unpaid, then your salary would be divided by 195 and you would received a prorated 9/10 salary for a 2 week pay period that included a day off. Your pay check would be less for any week that included one of those 20 days, but it isn't.

Your calculation is like someone who works a typical 260 work day salary and claiming their hourly rate is based on 250 days with 10 unpaid federal holidays. That's not how salaried individuals in any other industry calculate their pay, so it is disingenuous to try and claim that you have have a higher hourly rate computed for your salary with unpaid holidays.

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

[Anonymous]

let.this.thread.die

It is honestly not that big of an f'ing deal.

[Anonymous]

The school calendar is important to students, teachers, parents and MCPS.

If the calendar is not important to you, then don't respond to this thread.